Gena Davis institute on Gender in media tries to link violent games to mass shootings and police violence

[Hawki]

There is no "more feminine appearance". There's no footage or pictures of Amazon's live action She-Ra at all. They don't even have a writer. This is fans of the popular cartoon mocking the big corporate live action attempt just like what happens with every other big corporate live action attempt.

Only it's a thing "SJWs"/LGBT people like, so it's part of the culture war.

Sexualization of females has long been part of a culture war in games though, it doesn't matter about the orientation behind it.

Pretty much everything can be part of the 'fronts' of a culture war. I mean, Tifa's become a flashpoint, but it wasn't the first time - remember the outrage over FF15, and how its all-male cast (as in, playable characters) was "sexist?" Or, to flip the script, when the lack of Jill's tube top in the RE3 remake was "pandering" to the wokes?

Culture war or outrage culture, whatever you want to call it, it's eyerolling whoever does it.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Sexualization of females has long been part of a culture war in games though, it doesn't matter about the orientation behind it.

Pretty much everything can be part of the 'fronts' of a culture war. I mean, Tifa's become a flashpoint, but it wasn't the first time - remember the outrage over FF15, and how its all-male cast (as in, playable characters) was "sexist?" Or, to flip the script, when the lack of Jill's tube top in the RE3 remake was "pandering" to the wokes?

Culture war or outrage culture, whatever you want to call it, it's eyerolling whoever does it.

Uhh, true, but I was talking about live action She Ra and the precisely zero available specifically.

 

[Gergar12]

Why are you so desperate to try and drag this thread back to some weird jobs argument instead of engaging with the idea that "games marketed to males" are so widely accepted that Steam has a hentai tag?

The three main websites for hentai as far as I am aware is

Steam, Patreon, and Dlsite.

Patreon has been cracking down on non-consent hentai for a long time, and recently just canceled something I was a patron of called agnetta. They also will likely crackdown on skimpy clothing art, mods, and games soon since investors don't like it hence the corporate war on hardcore porn, and softcore war

Dlsite locks most of their best, and nontranslated games with Japanese yen payments, and most aren't translated and require text translators. Also their from Japan where the feminist movement hasn't caught on yet.

And there is Steam. On many forums; the word on the street is that Steam isn't safe for non-consensual genres like hentai. Unless your a large corporation like Kagura Games, you are not safe on Steam, not to mention they censor like half of their games. It's the indie people that create most of these games that are being screwed the hardest.

 

[Terminal Blue]

I don't think it's the side who likes sexy characters who are bringing up representation arguments. More bringing them up in counter to claims by people saying it doesn't count as representation or needs to change because representation grounds

You literally used a representation argument. That long, nonsensical rant you were replying to is also (for the most part) a representation argument. Any variation on "well, some women have big boobs" is a representation argument. If it's not, then why should anyone care?

Fictional characters are not real. If you're going to claim they should be a depicted certain way in order to represent real people, you're arguing about representation.

Let's turn that Liana K quote back on you for a moment. Sure, some women have big boobs, get over it. What part of what you're doing now is getting over it? You're throwing a tantrum because an incredibly stacked fictional woman isn't always shown wearing an outfit that personally appeals to one particular sexual fantasy you have. Is that what getting over it looks like?

3) The "Lola Bunny angle" or I take it to mean "You're upset because you can't fap to it"

No. I mean in the sense that the entire "controversy" seems to have been largely invented by a small group of people who base their understanding of a character's design not on the actual character's design, but on sexualized fan art of the character that emphasizes the sexual characteristics they fantasize about.

No-one said they couldn't fap to it. But in the immortal words of Sean Lock

Is it?

See, this genuinely gets me curious. Why?

Part of the issue is some branches that aren't even really social science because they don't even use the same standards bringing up often long outdated or debunked ideas from psychology like cultivation theory which even in the 80s was pretty thoroughly debunked.

I don't know who told you that cultivation theory is "debunked", but that's really not true at all. Cultivation theory (or media effects) is an established and well understood phenomenon, and is actually an intentional goal of some media. It's why propaganda works, and make no mistake.. propaganda does work.

Jiggling boobs are not sexy?

Sure they are. Jiggle physics, however, are extremely unsexy, because it seems to be made by or for people who have never interacted with human boobs, and seem to believe they are basically beach balls full of jelly.

None of those degrees are gender studies majors.

There are basically no "gender studies majors".

Again, doing a degree in gender studies is typically masters level. Some undergraduate courses will teach one specific part of a gender studies curriculum, usually as part of another degree program. These will typically be called something like gender and sociology, gender and psychology, gender and [insert discipline here].

There are a few colleges in the US which offer gender studies as a major at undergraduate level. Again, these are generally former women's studies programs, and what they teach is foundational feminist theory. But gender studies is not something you can really get going on until postgraduate level because, again, it's an interdisciplinary field requiring a lot of theoretical literacy.

 

[Avnger]

None of those degrees are gender studies majors.

From your list, a B.A. "Gender Studies" would be easily applicable to Education, Special Education, Elementary Education, and Social Services.

As reference (something your posts conspicuously lack), here's a list of possible careers for the related Women's Studies degree: https://whatcanidowiththismajor.com/major/womens-studies/

Something that you seem to be failing to understand throughout this entire thread is that a college/university is not a trade school. The educational purpose of the degrees (particularly at the undergraduate level) they provide is significantly different than the educational purpose of trade school certifications/degrees.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Patreon has been cracking down on non-consent hentai for a long time, and recently just canceled something I was a patron of called agnetta. They also will likely crackdown on skimpy clothing art, mods, and games soon since investors don't like it hence the corporate war on hardcore porn, and softcore war

Patreon's been anti-rape porn for years now. I have no idea why people keep trying. Meanwhile, the not-specifically-that Patreons that are following the explicitly stated rules are running along just fine, no slippery slope in sight

Patreon to roll out tools to help its adult creators meet Mastercard's new standards | TechCrunch

Remember when OnlyFans said it would ban explicit content, putting its creators' livelihoods in jeopardy, then suspended that ban less than a week later?

techcrunch.com

Dlsite locks most of their best, and nontranslated games with Japanese yen payments, and most aren't translated and require text translators. Also their from Japan where the feminist movement hasn't caught on yet.

Which is entirely a payment card processing issue and has nothing to do with feminism, also lmao at Japan not having a feminist movement.

And there is Steam. On many forums; the word on the street is that Steam isn't safe for non-consensual genres like hentai. Unless your a large corporation like Kagura Games, you are not safe on Steam, not to mention they censor like half of their games. It's the indie people that create most of these games that are being screwed the hardest.

"Non-consensual genres like hentai". Mate, I don't mean to kinkshame but that's like saying anime is high-school tournament fighting shows.
Steam being weird and arbitrary is just Steam being weird and arbitrary, not Attack of the Feminists, specifically considering that, as you point out, any sex game with notoriety is fine. The porn patches are, again, payment processing related. And MasterCard doesn't give a shit about some weird video game blog talking about sexualization.

Besides, that's just explicitly porn games. Like I said, any major retailer has Shoot High School Girls With Pheromones Until They Orgasm: The Remake, and the only "controversy" about that one was xbox continuing to has the same policy on that as they did the original, aka, no upskirting the high school children, meanwhile the new dev wanted Shoot High School Girls With Pheromones Until They Orgasm to be sexier, so now it doesn't get to be on Xbox.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

So... some real women have also, at times, worn very skimpy outfits. Is that the entirety of your point?

Some men have worn gimp suits IRL. I guess we should have a preponderance of gimp-suited male characters in games!

The argument that they are somehow uniquely sexualised and unrealistic in doing so kinda relies on the idea that you know reality doesn't regularly have women in similar roles as the characters in DOA who are showing more skin. It's really not some once in a blue moon thing it's actually quite consistent. Women in real life regularly and consistently would by the argument being used here be "sexualised" more than DOA.

Which kinda makes it funny to see people mad at DOA when as I said there's only 3 characters who you can really argue would be considered actually sexualised as in far above reality and that's because said roles kinda don't exist as much in reality anymore.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

You can find any argument arguing any position on the internet if you look hard enough. Who's "they"?

Journalist form Digital Foundry, the journalist who goes by "A Girl from Canada" and a few other fairly prominent talking heads on twitter.

Is this the same "They" as above? I'd image there's lots of things to change going from 480p to 4k. You'd probably have to ask Capcom why they made this ugly chunko I guess
View attachment 4545

No changing the skirt look

PS5 selling point

Devil May Cry 5 Update Removes Butt Censorship

Nudity is here to stay.

www.gamebyte.com

Because Capcom likes the direction the wildly successful new cartoon, I guess. Assuming the "They" is the same "They" as 2/3rds of the above.

But c'mon, it's an Amazon Live Action adaptation. Any other property and you'd be laughing too,

No on the PS5 selling point as again it's also oddly or wasn't all regions it had been removed in,

Also the new cartoon was basically cancelled it's why some of the people who watched it and enjoyed it keep calling for a film to add more after the ending.
If it were a success at least for the companies in the way they wanted they would have kept making it.

I have literally zero idea what you're talking about and I follow a few people who *live* for drama. These are not big blowups

Just look through some of the replies.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Why are you so outraged over the outrage though?

The impressive level of hypocrisy on show pretty much.

There is no "more feminine appearance". There's no footage or pictures of Amazon's live action She-Ra at all. They don't even have a writer. This is fans of the popular cartoon mocking the big corporate live action attempt just like what happens with every other big corporate live action attempt.

Only it's a thing "SJWs"/LGBT people like, so it's part of the culture war.

The thing is it's not yelling it's the twitter equivalent of well


yeh there's yelling about how Amazon is homophobic.
yelling about how Amazon will change the show.
yelling how Amazon needs to make it more for "the fans"
yelling how this is some great affront.
calls to cancel the series I think there's already petitions

It's not been making jokes about the live action He-Man movie before or how it'll be bad because live action adaptation. No it's been people losing their mines without even a single set photo yet because they're not getting a continuation of the Netflix show. Which doesn't make sense because there's actually a huge set of weird legal issues behind the scenes which is likely why the Netflix She-Ra looked different to begin with because Netflix had the rights to the Toy line look not the Cartoon look. So if Amazon have somehow got the right to the cartoon look that's what they're going to go with. (Welcome to the bizarre world of weird legal stuff)

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

The three main websites for hentai as far as I am aware is

Steam, Patreon, and Dlsite.

Patreon has been cracking down on non-consent hentai for a long time, and recently just canceled something I was a patron of called agnetta. They also will likely crackdown on skimpy clothing art, mods, and games soon since investors don't like it hence the corporate war on hardcore porn, and softcore war

Dlsite locks most of their best, and nontranslated games with Japanese yen payments, and most aren't translated and require text translators. Also their from Japan where the feminist movement hasn't caught on yet.

And there is Steam. On many forums; the word on the street is that Steam isn't safe for non-consensual genres like hentai. Unless your a large corporation like Kagura Games, you are not safe on Steam, not to mention they censor like half of their games. It's the indie people that create most of these games that are being screwed the hardest.

Fun fact, Patreon may soon require people creating hentai content to submit copies of government approved forms of ID (Driving Liscence / Passport) due to concerns over underaged people using the services to make adult content (more related to actual porn but it's also being sort of extended to cover hentai too).

I will say Steam is safer but yeh not 100% safe but it's getting better I think.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

You literally used a representation argument. That long, nonsensical rant you were replying to is also (for the most part) a representation argument. Any variation on "well, some women have big boobs" is a representation argument. If it's not, then why should anyone care?

Fictional characters are not real. If you're going to claim they should be a depicted certain way in order to represent real people, you're arguing about representation.

Let's turn that Liana K quote back on you for a moment. Sure, some women have big boobs, get over it. What part of what you're doing now is getting over it? You're throwing a tantrum because an incredibly stacked fictional woman isn't always shown wearing an outfit that personally appeals to one particular sexual fantasy you have. Is that what getting over it looks like?

YEs and plenty of women with big boobs liked Tifa originally anyway the change doesn't really suddenly make her appeal to said demographic

No. I mean in the sense that the entire "controversy" seems to have been largely invented by a small group of people who base their understanding of a character's design not on the actual character's design, but on sexualized fan art of the character that emphasizes the sexual characteristics they fantasize about.



Is it?

See, this genuinely gets me curious. Why?

I think it was the Jowels on the face of the new one

I don't know who told you that cultivation theory is "debunked", but that's really not true at all. Cultivation theory (or media effects) is an established and well understood phenomenon, and is actually an intentional goal of some media. It's why propaganda works, and make no mistake.. propaganda does work.

Well debunked to the extent that people yelling about harmful effects of media have been shown to have no basis for their claims.
The person who said that was Professor Guy Cumberbatch at the time a 20 year veteran psychology researcher specialising in the impact of media (he's still going actually and is far more than a 20 year veteran)

Properganda works is a tough one because that's a specially designed kind of media using a lot of advertising techniques and to quote a Coca Cola executive "If advertising worked half as well as some people claim, we wouldn't have to keep doing it so much".

Propaganda has to be hammered out again and again. It's why North Korean TV basically is non stop propaganda and the same applies to many other countries who strictly control the media and have special state run and controlled media institutions. Even then it won't fully control a populous so you have to have other measure like crackdowns on dissent and stuff to keep people in line.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Journalist form Digital Foundry, the journalist who goes by "A Girl from Canada" and a few other fairly prominent talking heads on twitter.

K, people I've literally never given a shit about nor known they exist. So...I'll keep doing that

No changing the skirt look

Explicitly a 480p to 4k problem. Didn't have to worry about rendering panty shots on the PlayStation.

No on the PS5 selling point as again it's also oddly or wasn't all regions it had been removed in,

That was a joke

Also the new cartoon was basically cancelled it's why some of the people who watched it and enjoyed it keep calling for a film to add more after the ending.
If it were a success at least for the companies in the way they wanted they would have kept making it.

I know weird nerds keep saying that, but sometimes shows just end. Like, on schedule with no expectations that it's going to be a Forever Show.

Just look through some of the replies.

I see a lot of healthy diversity of thought going on

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

yeh there's yelling about how Amazon is homophobic.
yelling about how Amazon will change the show.
yelling how Amazon needs to make it more for "the fans"
yelling how this is some great affront.
calls to cancel the series I think there's already petitions

So, standard internet banter then?

It's not been making jokes about the live action He-Man movie before or how it'll be bad because live action adaptation.

Well yeah, they had the Kevin Smith show to shit their pants about.

No it's been people losing their mines without even a single set photo yet because they're not getting a continuation of the Netflix show. Which doesn't make sense because there's actually a huge set of weird legal issues behind the scenes which is likely why the Netflix She-Ra looked different to begin with because Netflix had the rights to the Toy line look not the Cartoon look. So if Amazon have somehow got the right to the cartoon look that's what they're going to go with. (Welcome to the bizarre world of weird legal stuff)

Yes, the internet is well known for rational, reasoned debate about tricky legal questions, and that's why feminists are killing videogames forever, starting with a snowball effect from slightly less sexy costumes for high school characters

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

So, standard internet banter then?

Only by modern standards which tells you how bad it's gotten if that's seen as normalised

Well yeah, they had the Kevin Smith show to shit their pants about.

Non sequitur not answering the points really, especially as again there's no info. No images, nothing. But the lot who are screaming about it were all "You can't judge the show until you've watched it, you have to watch it first before you can say it doesn't look good" in regards to the Netflix version then when people did watch it they still yelled at them for not liking it with the whole "It's not for you" rhetoric which is what people were saying before, many of them who enjoyed or were fans of the old She-Ra series, saying it didn't look like it would be for them or look good.

Yes, the internet is well known for rational, reasoned debate about tricky legal questions, and that's why feminists are killing videogames forever, starting with a snowball effect from slightly less sexy costumes for high school characters

Ignoring the Non sequitur again. You know where the idea about the legal thing and info on the legal arguments over the look of the figures vs the cartoon series looks came from?
One of the people often called a Toxic youtuber who was critical of She-Ra and the Kevin Smith He-Man series 1. He brought this up as a point to say why the changes may have to have been done.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

K, people I've literally never given a shit about nor known they exist. So...I'll keep doing that

Still people who get a fair bit of attention on twitter.

Explicitly a 480p to 4k problem. Didn't have to worry about rendering panty shots on the PlayStation.

Just have the skirt flop down it's not that hard to do. Or make it so you can't move the camera to a low enough camera angle. Or hell just render her some underpants? So what women wear them and?

I know weird nerds keep saying that, but sometimes shows just end. Like, on schedule with no expectations that it's going to be a Forever Show.

Yeh but from what I've seen and heard the whole Horde prime arc was wrapped up shockingly quick over the course of like 1 season.

I see a lot of healthy diversity of thought going on

and a lot of people saying they do find it offensive, people twitter has determined prominent enough to be given blue check marks

 

[Gergar12]

From your list, a B.A. "Gender Studies" would be easily applicable to Education, Special Education, Elementary Education, and Social Services.

As reference (something your posts conspicuously lack), here's a list of possible careers for the related Women's Studies degree: https://whatcanidowiththismajor.com/major/womens-studies/

Something that you seem to be failing to understand throughout this entire thread is that a college/university is not a trade school. The educational purpose of the degrees (particularly at the undergraduate level) they provide is significantly different than the educational purpose of trade school certifications/degrees.

It is defacto a trade school given many office jobs demand a degree.

 

[Gergar12]

The problem is that these feminist elites, and groups are behind closed doors lobbying artists and video game companies to make forced artistic choices.

Edit:

16 Individuals and Groups Working To Stop Violence Against Women In Gaming | The Pixel Project's "16 For 16" Campaign

16days.thepixelproject.net

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

It is defacto a trade school given many office jobs demand a degree.

That is defacto wrong because words mean things

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

The problem is that these feminist elites, and groups are behind closed doors lobbying artists and video game companies to make artistic choices.

Lmao what the fuck?

 

[Avnger]

It is defacto a trade school given many office jobs demand a degree.

1. Goalpost moving
2. That doesn't make them a trade school. They're nowhere near equivalent.

Here is (a portion of) the University of Notre Dame's statement on the purpose of undergraduate education:

In order to lay the foundations for life‐long learning, by the time they graduate, Notre Dame undergraduates will be able to:

A. Acquire, synthesize, and communicate knowledge by incorporating relevant disciplinary approaches, cultural perspectives, and Catholic intellectual tradition.

B. Recognize moral and ethical questions in lived experiences, evaluate alternatives, and act with integrity.

C. Contribute to the common good by displaying a disciplined sensibility and committed engagement in response to complex challenges facing local, national, or global communities.

D. Demonstrate the vision and self‐direction necessary to articulate, set, and advance toward their goals.

E. Think critically in formulating opinions or accepting conclusions.

F. Exhibit creativity or innovation in the pursuit of their intellectual interests.

G. Display a level of mastery in their major field(s) of study that enables them to successfully pursue professional careers or advanced study.

Any university/college worthy of their accreditation will have similar goals (without, perhaps, the explicit religious mention in item A).

For contrast, here is (a portion of) the Technology Center of DuPage's (a multi-disciplinary trade school in the Chicago suburbs) mission statement:

Technology Center of DuPage will provide an educational environment that supports and encourages individual learning styles, develops occupational skills, fosters professionalism, promotes academic growth, and assists students in discovering their potential.
This mission includes ongoing professional development to maintain a skilled staff that effectively delivers high-quality, individually guided learning experiences.

As with the undergrad one above, this trade school mission statement is similar to one you'd find in most such institutions.