SCOTUS leak suggests Roe v. Wade to be overturned

[CriticalGaming]

Do you know anyone who's had 9 abortions? I don't. Have you heard of birth control methods failing? I have. And that's assuming people are even properly educated about birth control, which is hardly a safe assumption. It's really easy from the outside to just say "If you get pregnant outside of rape, it's your problem" (although that's being generous and assuming they aren't being a Todd Akin), but keep in mind, a lot of the states that want to ban abortion happen to be the same states that want to make it harder to get welfare. And they also tend to be the states with the worst sexual education.

That's fine. Show your BC failed, (though there is still plan B) and no problem imo. That's not a problem for me. I guess my whole thing is if we just have some rules on it to prevent potential abuse, then I don't have any issues.

 

[meiam]

Its pretty expected. The main and only real thing that republicans stand for at this point is getting rid of abortion by any means necessary as long as those means don't conflict with abstinence only education.

Republican use abortion to score political point and rile up their base for upcoming election. They'll never stop fighting against abortion because its convenient for them to have this goal that's always just a bit out of reach. They could make abortion 100% impossible and they'd just claim that its still happening just to get their voter to ignore their own incompetence and zealously vote for them anyway.

That being said, Roe was always a very weird way to make abortion legal, and a legally dubious one. It would have been much better if democrats tried to at least get a law passed at congress level to formally legalize it not long after Roe. Changing the message to one about choice was also not a very good idea, the biggest reason the public started supporting legal abortion is because plenty of women would die undergoing illegal one, not out of some respect for women choice. Ultimately just like the GOP used abortion for political gain, so did the democrats which just made it all the more likely it would be ravenously opposed. Dropping their support of 3rd trimester abortion would also have helped while affecting almost no women since its extremely rarely performed anyway.

Anyway, at this point the only realistic way to get abortion back would be to somehow flip the supreme court, which is essentially impossible. Maybe if the democrat magically keep the senate next election (almost impossible) they could start considering packing the court, but without some major gain in the senate that's not happening since the few swing voter know they can milk their position. And considering they'll almost certainly lose congress, nevermind the senate, that's not happening until maybe 2028 (even that's optimistic). For the sake of American, I really hope the democrat seriously reform their party into something that can make serious political gain quickly.

 

[Silvanus]

I really don't understand the idea that an abortion is just a woman's decision about her body. When that isn't really the case entirely. The whole idea of "my body, my choice" kind of falls flat when if you didn't want a baby why didn't you get one of the 11 different types of birth control?

Birth control isn't always effective.

But even if it was, sometimes people make stupid decisions and get drunk and bone. Yeah, it's irresponsible and short sighted, but that's what horny teenagers are like. Doesn't justify putting them through a life-changing, potentially traumatic, and entirely unnecessary procedure to give birth to a kid they're not ready to take care of.

 

[Jarrito3002]

I really don't understand the idea that an abortion is just a woman's decision about her body. When that isn't really the case entirely. The whole idea of "my body, my choice" kind of falls flat when if you didn't want a baby why didn't you get one of the 11 different types of birth control?

Abortions should be given to people willy nilly, like get 9 abortions and your 10th is free. That's hideous.

There are plenty of legit reasons why abortions should be allowed with some stipulations.

1. Rape (obviously)
2. Medical conditions that threaten the mother and/or child
3. Incest
etc.

But i don't think Abortions should just be like taking a Plan B pill. Especially since there is a plan B pill.

Think about all the things that have to happen for a pregnancy to occur. Unprotected sex at the right time of the cycle. Then literally weeks of fertilization. If someone doesn't want a baby and knows this, then there is a lot of time to do something about it, well before a pregnancy would even be finalized.

I don't think it's unreasonable for some sort of regulations to apply to abortion, I do think people should be allowed to get them within fair requirements though.

I don't know Crit you fell for the emotional and I know your going to hate the word but diet sexist rope a dope. This dumb idea that woman are just getting abortions willy nilly and are going use it to have all the unprotected sex with no consequences I have heard that faux moralist argument before so miss me with that.

Lets not forget Roe V Wade as been fine for a while and nothing about mass aborting has ever happened outside of salt dash hysteria.

And just maybe give that argument some credit would you really want this hypothetical woman who trying to get her 10th abortion free coupon to give birth and become a parent? I think all parties dodged a pretty big bullet.

 

[Thaluikhain]

The whole idea of "my body, my choice" kind of falls flat when if you didn't want a baby why didn't you get one of the 11 different types of birth control?

Hmmm, so what other things are we going to apply this logic to? You don't get to decide what to do in a situation if I'm not satisfied with what measures you took to avoid it...all sorts of interesting laws could be created there.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I really don't understand the idea that an abortion is just a woman's decision about her body. When that isn't really the case entirely. The whole idea of "my body, my choice" kind of falls flat when if you didn't want a baby why didn't you get one of the 11 different types of birth control?

Abortions should be given to people willy nilly, like get 9 abortions and your 10th is free. That's hideous.

There are plenty of legit reasons why abortions should be allowed with some stipulations.

1. Rape (obviously)
2. Medical conditions that threaten the mother and/or child
3. Incest
etc.

But i don't think Abortions should just be like taking a Plan B pill. Especially since there is a plan B pill.

Think about all the things that have to happen for a pregnancy to occur. Unprotected sex at the right time of the cycle. Then literally weeks of fertilization. If someone doesn't want a baby and knows this, then there is a lot of time to do something about it, well before a pregnancy would even be finalized.

I don't think it's unreasonable for some sort of regulations to apply to abortion, I do think people should be allowed to get them within fair requirements though.

You forgot the all encompassing legit reason; the one who's pregnant doesn't want to be pregnant.

All of this is assuming birth control isn't being used. Again, it's this apparent distrust that women just don't know what they're doing. Birth control isn't 100% effective, and condoms can be deffective. And then there's the obvious lack of education to make sure young girls actually know this shit.

But let's say someone didn't use birth control, was just completely irresponsible, and got pregnant; What exactly would be the point in refusing them an abortion? To let someone be pregnant who doesn't want to be pregnant, and as a result might not even take very good care of themselves and their unborn child, and to have this baby be born to an unfit mother or be left to the state? This is all just punishment for the mistake of getting pregant?

I guess my whole thing is if we just have some rules on it to prevent potential abuse, then I don't have any issues.

Because in almost 50 years of abortions being legal this has been such an issue. Oh wait, no it hasn't. People aren't going to abuse the right to get an abortion any more than they're going to abuse the right to get root canal work done.

 

[Cheetodust]

That's fine. Show your BC failed.

So what bring in your used condom from 4-6 weeks ago to prove you used one?

Legitimately, do you have any sources that show there is widespread overuse of abortion in the half century it's been legal in the states or are you just looking to control people "just in case".

 

[Silvanus]

Yet republican states have more opportunity for those minority groups than democratic states.

Lol.

What actually makes you believe gay marriage would be targeted? Gay marriage law is so much stronger constitutionally than Roe v Wade, there's like no way it gets overturned even if the SCOTUS was entirely republican appointed.

Supreme Court leak overturning abortion rights has Democrats concerned that same-sex marriage and civil rights could be next

In the leaked opinion overturning abortion rights, Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito calls out the decision that legalized same-sex marriage.

www.businessinsider.com

Part of the leaked opinion explicitly criticises Obergefell v. Hodges (the ruling that legalised gay marriage) and Lawrence v. Texas (the ruling that legalised gay sex) on the basis that those rights aren't "deeply rooted in history".

In short: it's quite obvious that constitutional strength isn't their main concern.

 

[Worgen]

Republican use abortion to score political point and rile up their base for upcoming election. They'll never stop fighting against abortion because its convenient for them to have this goal that's always just a bit out of reach. They could make abortion 100% impossible and they'd just claim that its still happening just to get their voter to ignore their own incompetence and zealously vote for them anyway.

Well yeah, its a guaranteed vote getter. And people worrying about a womans rights have gotten complacent. Really we just need a few big stories about women either dying in childbirth that is forced by a state or a state going too far in policing womens bodies and there being a backlash. Maybe also having it come out that some big evengelicals have been having or forcing abortions on people too.

Anyway, at this point the only realistic way to get abortion back would be to somehow flip the supreme court, which is essentially impossible. Maybe if the democrat magically keep the senate next election (almost impossible) they could start considering packing the court, but without some major gain in the senate that's not happening since the few swing voter know they can milk their position. And considering they'll almost certainly lose congress, nevermind the senate, that's not happening until maybe 2028 (even that's optimistic). For the sake of American, I really hope the democrat seriously reform their party into something that can make serious political gain quickly.

Well, really the only hope is to not let republicans control the presidency or the senate. If we get lucky the next supreme court justice to go will be one of the conservative ones, probably Clarence Thomas. He tends to be the most solidly conservative and if he could be replaced with a liberal justice then that would even things up pretty well, we would still have a conservative supreme court but it would be less right and more moderate.

 

[Buyetyen]

This is all just punishment for the mistake of getting pregant?

Actually I recall Critical saying that "giving birth is nature's punishment for getting pregnant," or something similar. This is not an uncommon opinion on the right, sadly.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

"No constitutional right to privacy" gets me, honestly. You thought Big Tech was bad, they got nothing on Big Daddy Government.

Then again, the Dems are just a fundraising organ so they won't be ruthless with that, and the GOP would love to get that police state power.

So no discussion on why it's a bad law so if it gets overturned, that's probably why vs it's just some republican appointed judges that are biased. We just have a bunch of whining about "evil" republicans again...

Make your own arguments, don't expect others to constantly steelman your position for you. If *you* can't think of a good argument, that's your problem

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

"No constitutional right to privacy" gets me, honestly. You thought Big Tech was bad, they got nothing on Big Daddy Government.

Then again, the Dems are just a fundraising organ so they won't be ruthless with that, and the GOP would love to get that police state power.


Make your own arguments, don't expect others to constantly steelman your position for you. If *you* can't think of a good argument, that's your problem

Probably doesn't want directly bring it up because it doesn't support this bullshit whatsoever when laid clearly out. Just another cheap and petty hollow attempt at a "gotcha"...

Ginsburg has said that while she supported the High Court’s 1973 decision in Roe v. Wade, she did not feel it went far enough in protecting women’s rights. During a 2013 appearance at the University of Chicago she noted, “Roe isn’t really about the woman’s choice, is it? It’s about the doctor’s freedom to practice … It wasn’t woman-centered, it was physician-centered.”

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

All of this happened under a democratic president though. So really, what would voting democrate really achieve?

The supreme court wouldn't be in this pitiful state if it wasn't partisanly stacked by the spiteful ideology fueling trump and his acolytes. Am no fan of Biden or the economic centre-right most the Dems stand for, but I seriously believe in harm reduction and pushing the most poisonous destructive shit out of the way first.

 

[meiam]

Well, really the only hope is to not let republicans control the presidency or the senate. If we get lucky the next supreme court justice to go will be one of the conservative ones, probably Clarence Thomas. He tends to be the most solidly conservative and if he could be replaced with a liberal justice then that would even things up pretty well, we would still have a conservative supreme court but it would be less right and more moderate.

He'd need to be replaced in the next few months, mid term are going to decimate the democrat in both congress and senate, realistically I don't see a new justice being appointed until 2024 by a newly elected republican president. And if the democrat retain the presidency I doubt they'd be able to get anyone in until 2026/2028. I wouldn't be surprised if the court was on 8 for quite a long time.

 

[Gergar12]

If the Democrats had any balls they would...

Impeach the 3 judges that lied about not acting on Roe. Or expand the supreme court.

 

[Worgen]

He'd need to be replaced in the next few months, mid term are going to decimate the democrat in both congress and senate, realistically I don't see a new justice being appointed until 2024 by a newly elected republican president. And if the democrat retain the presidency I doubt they'd be able to get anyone in until 2026/2028. I wouldn't be surprised if the court was on 8 for quite a long time.

Hence why we need everyone to vote democrat since otherwise we will end up with a situation like that. Plus I wouldn't be surprised if trump ran again and he stands a good chance of winning still and this time he might be less stupid about demolishing democracy and actually be able to do it.

 

[Silvanus]

That's odd, I don't remember him mentioning anything about this definitely-still-happening plan in his response to the leak. How strange.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

 

[Gergar12]

Self own here, but I didn't register to vote for this primary, but it is today so if your registered go vote. Now if you will excuse me I will be sprinting to register to vote for the general.

 

[Casual Shinji]

The supreme court wouldn't be in this pitiful state if it wasn't partisanly stacked by the spiteful ideology fueling trump and his acolytes. Am no fan of Biden or the economic centre-right most the Dems stand for, but I seriously believe in harm reduction and pushing the most poisonous destructive shit out of the way first.

Yeah, I know. I'm just little pissed right now at this whole thing.