What's funny is that this is exactly what happened with the originals- oversaturation. Even the studio was getting sick of making Tomb Raider games by the end.
Overrated and over-hated
- Thread starter Old_Hunter_77
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History repeats itself. Exactly. CORE Design was sick of the character and franchise by the third game, but the big wigs at Eidos were blinded by dollar signs and instant gratification to care. It's why a lot of the original staff at CORE left.
The not being able to move and shoot works for survival horror and increases the tension. RE4 isn't Uncharted or Gears or Vanquish.Debatable.
Yes, because I like having my trained US government agent stop and go into sieged tank mode to aim, and can't move while aiming./sarcasm
Issac is an engineer, Garcia is just some demon hunter with a talking and transforming gun, and Sebastian is a detective, who then later becomes an ex-detective recovering from a hangover. They can all move and shoot at the same time. What's Leon's excuse? (rhetorical question)
Depends on which ones. Syphon Filter 3 and the PSP game on PSN (which adds in dual analog control ) aged surprisingly well. Max Payne 1 & 2 still play better than Max Payne 3. The only thing to not age well with the original are those dumb dream sequences that involve obtuse puzzle solving. Winback was also one of the first of its kind when it came to 3rd person cover shooting too. Though I barely ever played the game. Never rented, nor owned it. Stranglehold was also in the style of 3rd person shooters like MP, but only went over-the-shoulder when you entered barrage mode. The Suffering aged well too, and has the option of going into 1st person. Gungrave is just a straight up fun arcade style shooter.
You don't look or play enough. Once again, you don't know shit. RE4 has not been unique to this anymore for a long time. Even back then, House of the Dead has limb based damage/targeting on enemies long before RE4 became a thing. As certain other games such as MGS2 and MGS3.
Over-the-shoulder shooting games that have locational and real time physicals based damage on enemy's limbs:
- Resident Evil 5 & 6
- Resident Evil Revelations 1 & 2
- Resident Evil 2 , 3, & 4 Remake
- Evil Within 1 & 2 - Especially in 2.
- Dead Space 1-3 & Remake - Strategic dismemberment!
- Shadows of the Damned - Garcia can shoot the limbs off of most humanoid demons and shooting their legs off causes them to crawl after him, and the player can curb stomp them for extra gems.
- Vanquish - Nearly every single robot can have them limb(s) blown off and they'll react accordingly and switch to different tactics. Such as suicide bombing, if you blow off the human sized robot's legs for example.
- Stranglehold - Enemies react accordingly to getting shot where ever. They're all human, and will clutch their hand, legs, or foot in pain. Shooting them in the throat will cause them to clutch it and gargle blood, etc.
- Cold Fear - This game has traditional 3rd person camera and over-the-shoulder camera the player can switch between any time.
- Calisto Protocol - The game still sucks.
And the rest from different genres.
Limb Targeting Games - Giant Bomb
Limb Targeting is the ability to target specific limbs on the body with the object being either to disable the limb or kill the target faster. It may also be referred to as the "Limb System" or "Localized Damage".www.giantbomb.com
All the Syphon Filters are ass today. Everything from those games have aged horribly, whether the controls or graphics or dialogue/cinematics. The only thing to really have fun with is burning people with the taser. Max Payne 3 is shit but it does have standard/modern TPS controls. MP1/2 aren't modern TPS controls and it doesn't control well on consoles. Stranglehold (the gen after RE4) was fun but it doesn't have standard TPS controls/feel, RE4 basically pioneered that.
TPSs are one of the things I know the shit out of. I can write a dissertation on the glorious controls of MGS4 to this day (like just using pressure on the analog stick to run/walk vs a fucking unneeded run button that every goddamn shooter has...). I played against the very best players in the world competitively across several TPSs. But no, I don't know shit about TPSs and you know every fucking thing, sure thing dude, hope that makes you feel like you won the internet...
I didn't say no games have limb damage effects, I said many games today don't. Few shooters let you specifically hit limbs for enemies to limp or drop things. I literally have MGS in my name, I know what the MGS games allowed for... And you can shoot the radio on an enemy and the enemy wouldn't be able to call in an alert.
I suspect it has to do with the "special training" given to
I remember someone in college tried to use the whole "realism" excuse, when the protagonists from 4 & 5 have to stop while aiming. I bring up Isaac Clarke, and the fact that you're dealing with parasitic zombies in 4 & 5. Realism already went out the window. Dude had no response to that.
Another overhated example was Asura's Wrath. Now to be fair: Capcom really screwed the pooch and this was during early 2010s, where they had a habit of messing up and were going way overboard on the DLC. Wouldn't help matters is that the true ending was sequel hook/DLC bet you had to buy. The game was also $60 at the time. That was one of the most dumbest things they could have ever done and no wonder so many people were mad or pissed off. Even fans of the character and story didn't like this.
Before the game even came out though, there were people hating on it because it wouldn't be exactly like God Hand, DMC, or Bayonetta. While it is true that the design phase changed, because Keiji Inafune left, I'd say it was all for the better. All he wanted was just a God of War clone with a Japanese take. I do admit that I was a bit disappointed, but the visuals story, characters, and how the qtes are done, more than makeup for it. I was mad at the handling of DLC as well, and I really didn't get the game until it was about $13. The true ending DLC I practically got for free, because of a huge sale at the time. AW deserves are we release with all the content on one disc. I still have my 360 copy and I have it on my X1 with all the DLC I purchased. But still, it's harder for PlayStation players to play this game, or it's emulation if you don't have a Xbox console. Capcom, release this game at $20 and you're good with me. Put it on all on mondern consoles and PC. You'll make some quick money and thank you for the check.
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I think part of this is both influence each other. A game gets over hyped which then leads to over hate because it didn't live up to the hype. Then we have "The revenge of the underhyped" where a game gets over praised or hyped because it was initially written off. An example is Twilight Princess and Wind Waker. I think Wind Waker is over praised because people like to talk about how the art style was hated on and they like to say the edgy "Muh realism" people had to eat crow, and while I don't think Wind Waker is bad, I think people like to smooth over its flaws too much. And in turn I think Twilight Princess gets over hated because to a lot of people it's like an effigy of bullies that picked on them for not being cool or adult, and I don't think it deserves that.
Now, a game I think is over hated? Super Princess Peach, and for the stupidest reason which is that no one who hates it has ever actually played the damn game. There's jokes about Peach being overly emotional or trying to get her "vibrator" back from Bowser, yada yada.
But if you've played the game you know Peach is in full control of her emotions, that's why you can switch between them at will, it's the enemies that are out of control. And the Vibe Scepter is something Bowser found and it's used by the bad guys for the entire game, not Peach. If there's any actual problem with the game, it's that it's too easy.
Now, a game I think is over hated? Super Princess Peach, and for the stupidest reason which is that no one who hates it has ever actually played the damn game. There's jokes about Peach being overly emotional or trying to get her "vibrator" back from Bowser, yada yada.
But if you've played the game you know Peach is in full control of her emotions, that's why you can switch between them at will, it's the enemies that are out of control. And the Vibe Scepter is something Bowser found and it's used by the bad guys for the entire game, not Peach. If there's any actual problem with the game, it's that it's too easy.
Jet Force Gemini. Boom! Checkmate atheists!
A TPS that relies on lock-on to hit enemies competently isn't modern TPS controls...
That's always been a lame and bull crap excuse. It doesn't increase tension; all it does is increase annoyance. Guess what? You can move and shoot in Evil Within 1 & 2, and there's still plenty of tension. Shadows of the Damned is a bit more action-focused, but there is still tension in the game despite having dark humor and comedic moments.
While Vanquish and gears are heavy action games, they were still tension in either of those games. Especially Vanquish when playing on a harder difficulty.
In your very subjective opinion about Max Payne as a whole. Keep in mind, why I do like MP3, I prefer the first two games. Even if some stuff in the first game has an age well. Both games still control great on mouse and keyboard. Now I'm consoles it's a bit more of a different issue, but I played both of them on pc. I did play the console version of MP2 once though. Wasn't too bad.
I didn't say anything about winning the internet. That's you and your attitude. It's funny how you always project, gas light, and move the goal post. And if you played every shooter under the sun, then you know that's not true. It's your opinion, but I cannot give a rat's ass. I haven't played every shooter under the sun, but I know plenty of had more fun with 3rd person shooters from the 6th and 5th generation, than many of the cover shooters from 7th generation. Even if certain ones have an age well, or don't control as great as modern controls. You can boast all you want, but you clearly don't know everything nor as much as you claim as you do.
Didn't sound like it the way you typed it. I gave you that huge list of titles, and over 120 ain't bad. I don't expect every game to have a de-limbing mechanic, but what I did say was that it doesn't make RE4 that much special anymore. That is true. Not to mention there's a lease 18 over the shoulder games that do that now, so that's plenty at this point if we're just using re4 as a baseline. And like I said before, there are plenty of other games that had it before RE4 even came out. How about next time you do your homework? We're done here.
"Go try playing like any 3rd-person shooter from the PS2/Xbox/GC gen, I don't recall any of them being good at all by today's standards"
I was replying to this particular part. My point is only that there is an older 3rd person shooter that's still fun to play. You also have to do a lot of shooting without lock on.
Well, I mean, it is pretty well true that you shoot more accurately when you aren't moving, especially when you're using a pistol. I mean moving and shooting is certainly a thing, but its usually done as a 'shoot=>move to new position=>take cover=>shoot' and then its thirty go to ten. Sustained fire with movement is I'm pretty sure an infantry suppressive fire thing.
None of this of course makes it any less silly for Leon being riveted to the floor when he's got his gun out.
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Devil May Cry 2 is a flawed game but isn't unplayable and did introduce elements that were better utilized in other entries.
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Speaking of Tomb Raider, the criticisms of reboot Lara's body count were especially hilarious to me considering the character has always been a glorified hitwoman with a casual interest in archaeology.
I think there it was the tone the reboot was going for that made the killing feel a bit off. It's going for a gritty setting, even referencing The Descent at one point. The game seems to want to show this christening of Lara through fire and blood, which feels a bit off for a prequel Tomb Raider. It wants to show the impact and horror of death, but then proceeds to have Lara gun down countless goons.
Uncharted never really had anything to say about death or murder, so the fact Nathan snaps necks like he's eating chips has very little bearing on his character. This changes a bit in Uncharted 4, and as a result some of Nate's behavior during cutscenes feel rather disconnected to the action gameplay.
The Last of Us 2 had the same issue as the Tomb Raider reboot, where it really wanted to make a point about death and violence, yet only the cutscene death and violence was presented as significant to Ellie's arc/descent. Brutally killing 40+ humans during gameplay - 'Grrr, whatever, fuck 'm.' Torturing someone by hitting them with a pipe, and stabbing a pregnant woman during a cutscene - 'Good God, what have I become!?'
True, but it is too boring to play and the gameplay only gets more interesting and fun when playing on Hard (which has to be unlocked by beating Normal), or by playing as Trish (who shares Dante's DMC1 move set), Lucia, or DMC1 Dante (who has the battle cries and shouts of his first actor, and his DMC1 move sets). There is nowhere near the amount of hatred fans have DMC2 nowadays. Especially when people wish Lucia be brought back into the mainline games, because her personality is not like Trish's nor Lady's and feel she has untapped potential.
That got overshadowed by DmC (2013). Though that one got hate for mostly the right reasons. Even I despised the game for a long while, until the Definitive Edition came out. There is not much hatred for that one either, but fans that tolerated the game, rarely or never play DmC again, because of the release of 5 and 5:SE.
Speaking of Capcom, Street Fighter III and Dead Rising 3 got a lot of hate. More so the former when it first released. Here we have three games in the SF III timeline, that was mostly ignored, because "it didn't have MAI favorite character/waifu from II or the Alpha games!". Yes, I know SFIII didn't start off as an SF game, and there was production troubles, but that game tanked hard in the late 90s. Even with 3rd Strike, the reason people hated on the games, were because critics, most casuals, and SF fans claimed the graphics were "too dated" and Capcom was "behind the times". SFIII has aged better than all of the 3D games or 3D fighting games that have come out from that era a 1000 fold. The game didn't get appreciation until the Japanese players showed all the cool combos that could be pulled off during the early 2000s and Evo Moment #37.
Dead Rising 3 got hate from fans, because it's still is a XONE and PC exclusive. The game is great and arguably the best of the entire franchise. I don't blame fans exactly for being mad at the time, but some of them were going way too hard on the hatred. The hatred only disappeared due to the disaster that was and is Dead Rising 4. Most people like to pretend it does not exists, and that DR3 is the final game in the timeline.
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"Those other people want the thing I want. I can't let them have it because of reasons." (bang bang)
As I remember it, it originally wasn't even going to have Ken and Ryu? And from what I've heard, it didn't really hit its stride until 3rd Strike. I suppose Capcom deserves some credit for sticking with it. (Although I still think they owe me a refund for all the quarters I wasted trying to beat Gill. How about you Resurrect my foot up your ass.)
Re: the violence with Uncharted and Tomb Raider- what ever happened to the logic of "because video games?" I'm so confused- like, yeah you kill things in a video game, I don't understand that problem here.
Like Shinji said above, it only became a problem because the developers and marketing put a lantern on it.
Well fair enough I guess.
Personally I'm not a fan of all the shooting and killing in those games but not because of "ludonarrative dissonance" or whatever, but because I just find shooting combat boring. I really like the new Tomb Raider games but I also kind of make of the GRITTY- a remnant of the trend of GRITTY everything. And I love all the Uncharteds. The appeal for me is the Indy Jones style exploring and cool set pieces anyway.
Its presentation and story tone.
Old School Lara was given to us more or less fully formed as a badass straight from the Indiana Jones mould so it made sense she could run and gun and decode Inca languages in the same afternoon. And the Dinosaurs also help set the tone.
Reboot!Lara - who I really liked in the games - is presented to us first as a student of archaeology. And I mean that literally: she and Sam and every other poor sod on that boat are on it because Lara's basically writing her thesis. So she's twenty two at most and given the, lets call it grounded, tone the reboot shoots for, her ability to handle weapons and assault strongholds full of fanatics comes across as somewhat incongruous.