Liberals, progressives and conservatives of note sign open letter to end cancel culture. (Noam Chomsky/J.K. Rowling/Gloria Steinem/David Brooks etc.)

[Dreiko]

A Letter on Justice and Open Debate

July 7, 2020 The below letter will be appearing in the Letters section of the magazine’s October issue. We welcome responses at letters@harpers.org Our cultural institutions are facing a moment of trial. Powerful protests for racial and social justice are leading to overdue demands for police...

harpers.org

Couldn't agree more with this. Hopefully change happens soon.

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

Lol. This still just another attempt at "cancelling" (whatever that means at this point) anyway. Nobody's been cancelled, apart from the ones beyond measures of doubt for criminal behaviour. All this people are still about getting paid, being given platforms. They are the furthest from cancelled as one could hope to be. This hand-wringing is just plain pitiful now.

 

[Thaluikhain]

The way to defeat bad ideas is by exposure, argument, and persuasion

Yeah, pity it doesn't work. We have anti-vaxxers, flat-earthers, white supremacists, people that believe in the healing power of crystals, and persuasion doesn't make them grow up.

Lol. This still just another attempt at "cancelling" (whatever that means at this point) anyway. Nobody's been cancelled, apart from the ones beyond measures of doubt for criminal behaviour. All this people are still about getting paid, being given platforms. They are the furthest from cancelled as one could hope to be. This hand-wringing is just plain pitiful now.

But freeze peach! Mine, that is, to say what I want, not other people who want to say what they want about what I've said that like censorship, man.

 

[Dreiko]

Lol. This still just another attempt at "cancelling" (whatever that means at this point) anyway. Nobody's been cancelled, apart from the ones beyond measures of doubt for criminal behaviour. All this people are still about getting paid, being given platforms. They are the furthest from cancelled as one could hope to be. This hand-wringing is just plain pitiful now.

The article mentions many cases of people who lost their jobs for things like quoting scientific research or using certain literature during classes actually.

 

[09philj]

Hilariously this seems to be some kind of really transparent grift that some of the signees are already demanding be retracted.

 

[Dreiko]

The way to defeat bad ideas is by exposure, argument, and persuasion

Yeah, pity it doesn't work. We have anti-vaxxers, flat-earthers, white supremacists, people that believe in the healing power of crystals, and persuasion doesn't make them grow up.



But freeze peach! Mine, that is, to say what I want, not other people who want to say what they want about what I've said that like censorship, man.

If it doesn't work, why are you then saying things about what other people said and then go on to claim people wanna try silencing you when they promote free speech?

If exposure argument and persuasions don't work, why are you engaging in them when you could be instead doing the things that do work?

I think in your action you agree that these things do work, you agree to it so much that you need to have the power to cancel them being done against you.

 

[Hawki]

Cancel culture isn't a thing.

In other news, the #CanelHamilton movement continues to gain traction.

 

[Buyetyen]

Translation: old people freaked out by social media, take #759395.

 

[Thaluikhain]

If exposure argument and persuasions don't work, why are you engaging in them when you could be instead doing the things that do work?

I'm not. I'm engaged in mocking them.

There isn't anything I can do that would work, not least because the people who wrote that literally don't know I exist. But making fun of people deciding to act foolishly is always popular.

EDIT: Admittely, I could have been clearer, tone not coming across well online, but had hoped that the ",man" would get across that I'm being facetious.

 

[Dreiko]

I'm not. I'm engaged in mocking them.

There isn't anything I can do that would work, not least because the people who wrote that literally don't know I exist. But making fun of people deciding to act foolishly is always popular.

EDIT: Admittely, I could have been clearer, tone not coming across well online, but had hoped that the ",man" would get across that I'm being facetious.

I know, that was a general you, not a specific you-you.

Why would anyone care about being unable to say things about the things the people who sign this litter have said if it is indeed as ineffective as you claim. That people do go on to say things about things and are wary about others' ability to do the same, to the point of cancelling them, is proof that saying things does work.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I know, that was a general you, not a specific you-you.

Ah, fair enough.

Why would anyone care about being unable to say things about the things the people who sign this litter have said if it is indeed as ineffective as you claim.

It's not effective, but it is annoying.

 

[Buyetyen]

Why would anyone care about being unable to say things about the things the people who sign this litter have said if it is indeed as ineffective as you claim. That people do go on to say things about things and are wary about others' ability to do the same, to the point of cancelling them, is proof that saying things does work.

So here's the sticking point for me: exactly how do you plan to enforce me discussing individuals I'm not interested in discussing, not criticizing individuals I want to criticize, and financially supporting people I would rather not?

 

[Worgen]

I feel like I should leave this here.

She goes over the history and the impact of 'canceling.' Cause it is a thing, but not in the way people really think.

 

[Dreiko]

So here's the sticking point for me: exactly how do you plan to enforce me discussing individuals I'm not interested in discussing, not criticizing individuals I want to criticize, and financially supporting people I would rather not?

That's not the aim, the aim is to simply defang the capacity you and a million other people doing those things has to curtail freedom of expression. You of course should still be able to do them, they just shouldn't be capable of curtailing free speech.

Basically, this is a call for courage in the face of opposition and less folding to social pressures that are unfounded from a philosophical basis in a free speech society. If people never fired anyone ever again because of twitter things, that'd be enough, nobody cares what you say beyond that aspect of it.

 

[Buyetyen]

That's not the aim, the aim is to simply defang the capacity you and a million other people doing those things has to curtail freedom of expression. You of course should still be able to do them, they just shouldn't be capable of curtailing free speech.

And how exactly do you plan to do that other than stop me from doing those things? This is all very feel-good rhetoric about frozen peaches, yes we all like peaches, but seriously, what is the course of action here?

 

[Dreiko]

And how exactly do you plan to do that other than stop me from doing those things?

Telling people do be more courageous and lending them the support they need in hopes of doing so. Basically, it's the thing the letter says. Persuading people in power to not listen to you as much.

 

[Buyetyen]

Telling people do be more courageous and lending them the support they need in hopes of doing so. Basically, it's the thing the letter says. Persuading people in power to not listen to you as much.

???? Since when the fuck has David Brooks ever listened to anyone but David Brooks? When has JK Rowling ever done anything because I stopped buying her books? How long do you think I have had this superpower?

 

[Dreiko]

???? Since when the fuck has David Brooks ever listened to anyone but David Brooks? When has JK Rowling ever done anything because I stopped buying her books? How long do you think I have had this superpower?

No, these people are the ones against this thing so of course they haven't done it. They are the support that the ones who do do it can rely on to stop.

Basically, there's a lot of cowardly groups, business, corporations and schools who don't really believe in progressive values but just do it because it's the path of least resistance. Not out of conviction or because they think it's right but just to not have a mob of shit-throwers on their hands. Those are the ones that need the support.

 

[tstorm823]

Basically, this is a call for courage in the face of opposition and less folding to social pressures that are unfounded from a philosophical basis in a free speech society.

And yet I read that letter and thought "pfft, cowards."

They sign the letter in large numbers and post no name for who did the writing. They litter the piece with other groups that are supposed to be the real enemy. This is people without convictions upset because they are being attacked as though they had any.

 

[Dreiko]

And yet I read that letter and thought "pfft, cowards."

They sign the letter in large numbers and post no name for who did the writing. They litter the piece with other groups that are supposed to be the real enemy. This is people without convictions upset because they are being attacked as though they had any.

Isn't it supposed to be as if everyone wrote it?

I'm pretty sure that's the point of signing onto this.