Feds are reportedly abducting people in portland

[Buyetyen]

Come on man, that’s unfair. He did something. He cancelled his rally. (6mths in and after forcing other primaries to stay open over the .)

He also stopped this:
(Just ignore the part where his little speech said this was a good idea p.)

I don't know... Do you think he'd remember that last part? I mean, it's more than 5 words, that's a pretty tall order.

 

[Trunkage]

I don't know... Do you think he'd remember that last part? I mean, it's more than 5 words, that's a pretty tall order.

“I don’t remember say that. And there’s no evidence that I did.”

 

[Worgen]

Looks like the Portland Bureau of Transportation is sending a cease and desist letter to the the US general services administration saying a barrier they put around the court house is illegal and violates a bike lane which is one of the "busiest bike lanes in the us." Chief Deputy City Attorney Robert Taylor as threatened legal action, fines and other remedies if the fence is not removed.

PBOT defends bike lane, says federal wall on SW Main is illegal and must be removed

The Portland Bureau of Transportation says a metal fence and concrete barriers installed around the Federal Courthouse yesterday are illegal and they've sent a cease and desist letter to the United States General Services Administration demanding that it be removed. As we reported Wednesday, the

bikeportland.org

 

[Dalisclock]

Looks like the Portland Bureau of Transportation is sending a cease and desist letter to the the US general services administration saying a barrier they put around the court house is illegal and violates a bike lane which is one of the "busiest bike lanes in the us." Chief Deputy City Attorney Robert Taylor as threatened legal action, fines and other remedies if the fence is not removed.

PBOT defends bike lane, says federal wall on SW Main is illegal and must be removed

The Portland Bureau of Transportation says a metal fence and concrete barriers installed around the Federal Courthouse yesterday are illegal and they've sent a cease and desist letter to the United States General Services Administration demanding that it be removed. As we reported Wednesday, the

bikeportland.org

Portland takes it's bike lanes seriously.

Also, this happened

Portland City Council bans local police from working with federal law enforcement

The Portland City Council has reportedly approved a measure that bars the city’s police department from communicating with federal agents deployed to the region by the Trump administration.&n…

thehill.com

And now this

Federal judge temporarily bars federal officers in Portland from taking actions against journalists, observers

A federal judge in Oregon on Thursday night issued a temporary restraining order against the federal agents deployed in Portland, prohibiting them from threatening to arrest, arresting, disper…

thehill.com

Per the order — issued by U.S. District Judge Michael Simon — the stationed federal officers also cannot seize any photography, audio- or video-recording equipment or press passes from the journalists and legal observers. Additionally, journalists and legal observers cannot be made to stop recording or photographing a protest.

Which is pretty disgusting they'd be trying to stop people from recording them anyway. Apparently they feel really good about what they're doing, except they don't want it all over the internet or the news because...it hurts their feelings when people yell at them for beating protesters or something.

Maybe Trump should take his own advice and LISTEN instead of talking

Trump urges Michigan’s Whitmer to ‘make a deal’ with those protesting stay-at-home order

President Trump on Friday urged Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer (D) to negotiate and “make a deal” with those protesting her stay-at-home order in the state.“The Governor of Michigan should give a l…

thehill.com

The Governor of Michigan should give a little, and put out the fire. These are very good people, but they are angry. They want their lives back again, safely! See them, talk to them, make a deal.

 

[Agema]

You keep thinking that they are not wanting this

This is exactly what Trumps base wants and they are pretty disappointed there isn’t more deaths. In fact, if people don’t die soon, Trump might lose for being weak

Maybe, but Trump's base is at best ~40% of the country, and he seems dead set on alienating absolutely everyone else: that's why his poll numbers are awful.

 

[lil devils x]

Ya know, one thing Trump is really good at is making everything worse, no matter what it is. The protests there were down to like under a 100 people, and were lessening by the day, but then Trump goes and pulls a " Use military against the people" on them again and even gets the grannies coming out and risking their lives to protest against his action and the whole thing blows up again much worse. ( Yes I know they were federal police, but the grandmas watching, when the police are dressed in Camo, they might as well be military at that point as that is all Grandma sees when she is watching men dressed in military attire abducting people of the streets in the US, as there is no actual reason for military or police to be dressed in camo to abduct people on US streets in the first place.)

It reminds me of when Trump opened his mouth about kneeling in the NFL, it had been winding down at the point he attacked it and then entire teams started doing it after Trump threw his hissy fit. It doesn't matter what it is, trump is in a league of his own when it comes to making everything worse than it ever had to be. Oddly, that appears to be the ONLY thing Trump seems to actually be good at doing. Trump is like: OMGAWD- Pandemic: MAKE IT WORSE! MAKE IT WORSE! LOOK Protests! MAKE IT WORSE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PANDEMIC! With him being such a failure at so many other things, he has to find a way to be the best at something, I guess.

 

[Trunkage]

Maybe, but Trump's base is at best ~40% of the country, and he seems dead set on alienating absolutely everyone else: that's why his poll numbers are awful.

'Law and Order' worked for how many presidents?

 

[Buyetyen]

Ya know, one things Trump is really good at is making everything worse, no matter what it is. The protests there were down to like under a 100 people, and were lessening by the day, but then Trump goes and pulls a " Use military against the people" on them again and even gets the grannies coming out and risking their lives to protest against his action and the whole thing blows up again much worse. ( Yes I know they were federal police, but the grandmas watching, when the police are dressed in Camo, they might as well be military at that point as that is all Grandma sees when she is watching men dressed in military attire abducting people of the streets in the US, as there is no actual reason for military or police to be dressed in camo to abduct people on US streets in the first place.)

It reminds me of when Trump opened his mouth about kneeling in the NFL, it had been winding down at the point he attacked it and then entire teams started doing it after Trump threw his hissy fit. It doesn't matter what it is, trump is in a league of his own when it comes to making everything worse than it ever had to be. Oddly, that appears to be the ONLY thing Trump seems to actually be good at doing. Trump is like: OMGAWD- Pandemic: MAKE IT WORSE! MAKE IT WORSE! LOOK Protests! MAKE IT WORSE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PANDEMIC! With him being such a failure at so many other things, he has to find a way to be the best at something, I guess.

Mainly because he's stupid. Whenever he sees a challenge or threat to his dominance, whether it be circumstances beyond his control or being in the same room as someone even remotely smarter than him, is first instinct is to bear his teeth and start swinging his unimpressive old man arms in flailing circles while screaming about how unfairly he's being treated. The man never emotionally developed past a toddler.

'Law and Order' worked for how many presidents?

In previous decades. But now public opinion is increasingly negative toward cops and "law and order" is recognized by a larger segment of the population as a racist/authoritarian dog whistle. Just because a tactic worked before doesn't mean it will work forever. Not saying we should count on it failing. But I don't think it's the sure thing it used to be.

 

[Agema]

'Law and Order' worked for how many presidents?

Law and Order works for presidents who aren't perceived as agent of chaos spreading division and conflict. Have a good reputation, clean up societal untidiness and get the plaudits. Have a reputation as a crude, abusive boor who has made a mess and then attempts to repress it, get called a tyrant.

 

[Dalisclock]

'Law and Order' worked for how many presidents?

Law and Order works a lot better when you have credibility for being authoritative(as opposed to Authoritarian) and some nominal level of perceived empathy towards others. Trump, OTOH, acts like a bully and is pretty fucking open about his contempt anyone not in his little fan club(and arguably there's contempt for his fan club too, but they don't seem to notice).

Trump comes across as someone who thinks he's the living embodiment of Machiavelli's The Prince, except he totally doesn't understand what the book has to say because he doesn't read and if Fox and Friends/Hannity ain't spoon feeding it to him at 2 am, it's not worth knowing.

As Tvtropes so helpfully puts it.

"And here comes in the question whether it is better to be loved rather than feared, or feared rather than loved. It might perhaps be answered that we should wish to be both; but since love and fear can hardly exist together, if we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved."
—What everyone remembers from The Prince

"Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred; because he can endure very well being feared whilst he is not hated."
—What he says right afterward, but what nobody seems to remember

 

[Revnak]

Ya know, one thing Trump is really good at is making everything worse, no matter what it is. The protests there were down to like under a 100 people, and were lessening by the day, but then Trump goes and pulls a " Use military against the people" on them again and even gets the grannies coming out and risking their lives to protest against his action and the whole thing blows up again much worse.

The protests in Portland were at no point under a hundred people. This is a bullshit narrative trying to push the full blame for everything onto Trump rather than the Dem leadership and the Portland police that are also brutalizing people. The protests certainly got bigger when there started to be national press covering the feds, but the largest protests by far were still just shortly after Floyd’s death.

 

[lil devils x]

The protests in Portland were at no point under a hundred people. This is a bullshit narrative trying to push the full blame for everything onto Trump rather than the Dem leadership and the Portland police that are also brutalizing people. The protests certainly got bigger when there started to be national press covering the feds, but the largest protests by far were still just shortly after Floyd’s death.

Of course they were massive after George Floyd's death, however, from protester accounts they were at their lowest point right before the feds interfered. He gave them the fuel that was needed to reignite them as nothing makes protesters come out in force than using people in military garb against the citizens exercising their constitutionally protected rights. That isn't saying that Dem leadership there is any better, that is just stating the cause and effect of Trumps' actions regardless of what anyone else is doing. Trumps is responsible for making them worse, that is the only thing he IS good at.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

I mean just to point out the kind of obvious stuff that's probably already been pointed out.

1) They do have ID numbers.

2) This isn't really anything new Police have for years (ad federal agents) been turning up to peoples homes with Swat teams to take them into custody.

3) You have a right to a fair trail I don't think there is a right to never be detained though. You can argue unlawful detention if they have no evidence or no warrant for your arrest but that's about it.

 

[CM156]

2) This isn't really anything new Police have for years (ad federal agents) been turning up to peoples homes with Swat teams to take them into custody.

And how many times are those raids justified by necessity? For people who are running drug dens in their living room, fine. But for a non-insignificant number of cases I've seen, cops could arrest the guy as he's picking up groceries.

 

[lil devils x]

And how many times are those raids justified by necessity? For people who are running drug dens in their living room, fine. But for a non-insignificant number of cases I've seen, cops could arrest the guy as he's picking up groceries.

That is even if the warrants were valid in the first place or should have never been issued in the first place, like in Breonna Taylor's case. You had a woman, an EMT who used her life to save others sleeping in her home when police came in and murdered her with a warrant that was for another man who lived 10 miles away and who was already in custody or for her ordering clothes online. There were no drugs or criminals in her home. If people are not disgusted by that, I certainly do not know what it would take to make them human again. Knowing someone who does bad things does not suddenly make you a criminal. I knew a lot of guys from high school that did bad things, I even dated a bad boy here and there at one time, many of those bad boys are cops now. That does not mean I do drugs. That does not mean I am a criminal. That should not be probable cause of anything for that matter. That does not mean they should have a warrant to come into my home while I am sleeping and shoot me.

 

[Trunkage]

And how many times are those raids justified by necessity? For people who are running drug dens in their living room, fine. But for a non-insignificant number of cases I've seen, cops could arrest the guy as he's picking up groceries.

I... dont think anyone wants cops in grocery stores. With guns. Or on the road. That sounds like a recipe for collateral damage

Listening to Afghan vets, the rules for engagement is 5 S: Shout, Show, Shove, Shoot, Shoot. This STARTS when a weapon is pointed at the solider. Not at the start of the interaction. You only break from this if someone fires at you first. If they can do that for terrorist, surely they can do it for US citizens

 

[happyninja42]

I mean just to point out the kind of obvious stuff that's probably already been pointed out.

1) They do have ID numbers.

2) This isn't really anything new Police have for years (ad federal agents) been turning up to peoples homes with Swat teams to take them into custody.

3) You have a right to a fair trail I don't think there is a right to never be detained though. You can argue unlawful detention if they have no evidence or no warrant for your arrest but that's about it.

The problem is that they aren't the POLICE, they are federal agents, and their jurisdiction to operate is limited from state to state, and geographically where they are, in relation to federal property and other factors. The issue is that some of the incidents caught suggest these people are operating outside of their actual authority, as in the actual land areas they are authorized to police and protect, and just grabbing people off the street without any probable cause at the time.

The feds aren't allowed that level of blanket authority wherever they want, the state's have some very strict laws on how and when they can operate in their state, and that they have to have permission, and sometimes training from the states to be permitted to enforce law in their state. I'm generalizing here, but to say "the police" is a misnomer, because these people aren't the police. They are apparently (not sure since they aren't wearing identifying equipment so that they can be held accountable) federal border patrol agents and other federal entities, running around Portland, snatching people.

 

[Dalisclock]

The problem is that they aren't the POLICE, they are federal agents, and their jurisdiction to operate is limited from state to state, and geographically where they are, in relation to federal property and other factors. The issue is that some of the incidents caught suggest these people are operating outside of their actual authority, as in the actual land areas they are authorized to police and protect, and just grabbing people off the street without any probable cause at the time.

The feds aren't allowed that level of blanket authority wherever they want, the state's have some very strict laws on how and when they can operate in their state, and that they have to have permission, and sometimes training from the states to be permitted to enforce law in their state. I'm generalizing here, but to say "the police" is a misnomer, because these people aren't the police. They are apparently (not sure since they aren't wearing identifying equipment so that they can be held accountable) federal border patrol agents and other federal entities, running around Portland, snatching people.

Speaking of which....

Philadelphia’s Top Prosecutor Is Prepared to Arrest Federal Agents

After Trump said he would send agents to more cities, Philly’s district attorney lays out how he might criminally charge federal officers.

www.bloomberg.com

Bloomberg isn't my preferred brand of birdcage liner but it's hardly a tabloid either, and the story is getting play is several PA news outlets. I know nothing of the local politics, but it sounds like he's put some thought into this based on the interview. I imagine that would get heated pretty fast if it were to happen and I imagine that's why I haven't seen anyone else in that position make the same kind of statement(or, as mentioned in the article, the latitude of AG powers is a big factor here).

 

[Revnak]

Permanent free ribs. This is what the feds are trying to destroy.

 

[Buyetyen]

Permanent free ribs. This is what the feds are trying to destroy.

If anything could get Trump to actually show up in person at one of these places, an offer of free ribs might just do it.