so yeh seems like the new democrat position isn't to support defunding the Police now?
Also no Fracking ban
Biden claims he will increase Police funding and it is infact Donald Trump who wants to defund the police also won't ban fracking
- Thread starter Dwarvenhobble
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so yeh seems like the new democrat position isn't to support defunding the Police now?
Also no Fracking ban
USA
Fracking ban right now isn't much of an issue currently as it is not really profitable to expand fracking, so they just aren't expanding that right now.That doesn't mean Biden will approve doing so on protected lands as Trump has however.
Trump DID try to defund the police by withholding state and local COVID-19 relief funding so that states would be unable to pay them on top of early budget cuts.
What is your point here?
www.politico.com
Are you trying to say Biden is wrong here?
Trump DID try to defund the police by withholding state and local COVID-19 relief funding so that states would be unable to pay them on top of early budget cuts.
What is your point here?
Defund the police? It’s already happening thanks to the Covid-19 budget crunch
The decision about how much spending needs to be cut, and from where, will be up to each state’s bank balance and the political makeup of its government.
www.politico.com
Are you trying to say Biden is wrong here?
Biden saying he wants to increase funding to police to increase their deescalation training and provide social workers is somehow supposed to be a bad thing or something.. I thought that was what we were asking for? Listen to the clips above, he spoke about exactly that in the video in the OP above.
Fracking is immediately a non issue outside of Alaska since oil companies are cutting back and not increasing it right now. In Alaska it is about protecting the tribe and the nature reserve which isn't about Fracking in general, it is about not allowing it, or any other development there due to the threat to the tribe living there. Biden has never said he would allow it to happen there specifically due to the impact on the people there regardless.
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About 100, 000 new officers to help with urban crime, Joe?
Because that cured the problem last time.
Because that cured the problem last time.
He specifically said for social workers and psychologists and training in the video in the OP, the exact thing we have been asking for.
Where is he asking for 100,000 police right now? Do you have a link for this?
We can't really complain about getting what we asked for can we?
If we are just going to make up stuff about the candidates to spread misinformation, why even bother? If this is something that is not actually being called for or happening right now, why would we focus on that when he is actually trying to get it right this time?
Of course we could all just spread misinformation and help get the guy elected who is literally taking food, housing and medicine away from the poor instead because that seems like such a better idea rather than listen to what the candidates are actually telling us here.
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How is him specifically stating he wants to hire more social workers and psychologists more of the same? That is specifically some of the changes we're asking for here.
That is the opposite of more of the same.
Did you watch the first video in the OP?
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It doesn't get at the real problem, which is that our governments are paying gangs of thugs to terrorize black people, the poor, and the homeless.
As Calls to Defund the Police Grow Louder, Joe Biden Wants to Give Them More Money
Presumptive Democratic nominee Joe Biden called for an additional $300 million in federal funds for police.
theintercept.com
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Exactly.
COPS programs were part of Biden's shitty fucking crime bill in the first place, and in the past 26 years have made the problem worse, not better. Hell, taking into consideration that COPS funding lacks transparency and accountability, and the age of the programs combined with that they're basically a slush fund for militarized equipment purchase, they're worse than DHS police militarization programs themselves (another program Biden supported, just so we're clear).
This is logically equivalent to pledging to fight climate change, by increasing coal subsidies and implementing national minimum quotas for coal energy production.
What is your realistic solution to the problem that the president actually has the authority to control?It doesn't get at the real problem, which is that our governments are paying gangs of thugs to terrorize black people, the poor, and the homeless.
As Calls to Defund the Police Grow Louder, Joe Biden Wants to Give Them More Money
Presumptive Democratic nominee Joe Biden called for an additional $300 million in federal funds for police.
Part of the problem is the president, the federal government doesn't actually have control over local police, and it is local police responsible for the overwhelming amount of this violence. The only thing that the president can do is try and steer the conversation, use federal funding to fund things like social workers, psychiatrists and deescalation training, which Biden is actually doing here. What he isn't doing is using the military or federal police against the people as trump insists upon doing. Instead he is trying to start with giving them other options to interacting with the public other than violence, because currently violence is all they seem intent on using. We have to start by changing that first.
Having the federal government pay for social workers, psychiatrists and deescalation training is exactly what progressives asked for. Is your problem that we are getting exactly what we asked for or is that you don't want Biden to be the one who does it?
That is literally not what happened under COPS programs. Ever. Not once. In fact, under COPS programs the whole-ass goddamn opposite happened; the COPS program led to fewer social workers and civil servants, more badges on the street to harass and summarily execute minorities and poors, and the training money went to stupid shit like Dave Grossman's "killology" shit and militarized equipment. Was it supposed to go to those things you think it did? yes. Did it in actuality? no.
Because fucking Joe Biden wanted COPS funding to be an opaque slush fund absent oversight and accountability, that would do the opposite of what he said it would do, and that wasn't a bug, it was a feature. All of which directly fueled the systemic and institutional problems coming to a head today.
Shit like this is why I have you blocked. You're advocating a proven failed policy with a quarter-century history of having catastrophically backfired that can be directly attributed as a central cause of the problems with policing we face today. All because "orange man bad".
This isn't the COPS program is it? We are talking about what is happening now, not in the past. People will never be able to do anything different if everyone focuses on what happened decades ago rather than living in the present. He isn't suggesting funding an opaque slush fund this time, he was quite specific. People can learn from their mistakes and correct them. I m advocating no such "failed policy" as that isn't what is even being proposed here. You are focused on the past not the present, rather than give him a opportunity to correct it. Social workers, deescalation training and psychiatrists haven't been failed policy, as they have not done that yet. You wont even address the current plan at all.
You want to hold mistakes of the past as being more important than the seriously messed up actions the current president is doing now. You aren't living in the present on either Biden's or Trumps current policies.
Did you always believe what you believe now? I know I didn't. I went from a registered libertarian to an progressive independent. People change, their policies change, they learn from their mistakes and hopefully change for the better. Just as you and I both have changed over time, Biden has as well. Biden doesn't believe the same thing he did decades ago either. We should be glad he doesn't.
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It might help take the wind out of the sails of the excessively pro-police people. The fewer cases we see of cops shooting someone the less fights there will be over it. The more often we hear about situations being deescalated the more we will come to accept that as a viable alternative to killing.It doesn't get at the real problem, which is that our governments are paying gangs of thugs to terrorize black people, the poor, and the homeless.
As Calls to Defund the Police Grow Louder, Joe Biden Wants to Give Them More Money
Presumptive Democratic nominee Joe Biden called for an additional $300 million in federal funds for police.
There are two main changed to strive for
Changing the public perception of the cops, which is most easily done by having the cops be less horrible. This should allow communities to better engage with cops and once the groups communicate better police might not be as highly strung.
And the more important one: Changing the cops perception of the cops. Police need to understand who they are and what role they are expected to serve in society, but this is difficult to change since there is an inherently bad culture within the police. The easiest way to change it, without firing a massive number of cops and potentially rendering entire police forces useless, is to bring in a lot of new people with the right perception of cops while trying to educate the existing cops into a new mindset.
Changing policing is going to be a long, drawn out battle, but it is one that has to start by identifying the problems and then how to get to viable solutions. The main issue of the current anti-police movements is that there is no distinct leadership and that many of the slogans either sound extreme or just aren't viable from a policy perspective. People might dig in their heels so making solutions seem palatable is an important part of the process, and I don't think that anybody is going to disagree with "We want to make the police more approachable", but "We want the police to stop being murderers" might, seeing as the latter statement is already making an aggressive assumption.
I'm sorry to tell you this, but you're going to get more pushback suggesting you want the police to be more approachable. Some people, including on this website, treat the suggestion of police reform as though it's worse than nothing. And that plays out in the general public, as something like #8cantwait which pushed specific reforms that could be made was swiftly quashed as meaningless. The Democrats and Republicans put forward police reform bills that were like 90% the same, but then the phrase "defund the police" took hold and suddenly Republicans were supposedly sweeping deaths under the rug.
You're afraid of controversy from the wrong side.
The "current plan" is to expand these very failed programs. We are, literally, talking about what happened in the past. No ambiguity, no room for argument, Biden wants to double down on what already backfired. End of story.
Nothing "different" is on the table in the first place, least of all out of Biden's camp. At all. Period, the end.
No, they don't. Not least when it was the capstone of a thirty-year legislative career of covert white supremacy that would continue to last a decade. Biden broke it in the first place, he can't be trusted to fix it, and he doesn't deserve the "opportunity". What he deserves is a cell in The Hague with the rest of these carceral state, human rights-abusing, cocksuckers.
Are either of us career politicians with a decades-long legacy of mass incarceration, human rights abuse, erosion of due process and equal protection, state surveillance, unlawful war, and economic and social inequity of Dickensian proportion that have literally cost millions around the globe their lives, basic human dignity, and livelihoods? no? Then you can take your false equivalencies and appeals to sympathy, wad 'em up real tight, and stick 'em way up in your butthole.
I 100% agree that we have to change the cops perception of the cops for us to be able to change anything at all here. We are essentially changing their role and function in society and I see the social workers and Psychiatrists are being exactly what is needed to accomplish that. Not only with how the social workers and Psychiatrists interact with the public themselves but also having the social workers and Psychiatrists help teach the police how they can better interact with the public as well. Deescalation training keeps both the police and the people safer and rebuilds trust. Trust isn't going to be rebuilt at all unless we take these first steps to make the real changes necessary for that happen.
Your idea that everyone would rather Punish the police and the people instead of actually solve the problem long term isn't reality though. They want real solutions that work, and it is important we focus on that. People say a lot of things when they are angry, that doesn't mean they mean it or that is even an option here. Saying "burn them all down!" in the heat of the moment does not mean they won't also support long term solutions that actually solve the problems.
For every post you argue with me lately, you have 2 or 3 with someone who doesn't like or believe in your solutions that actually solve problems. If anything, I'm drawing from your experience.