Biden clenches the nomination.

[Saelune]

Utter nonsense. Obama got us into 5 wars on his own, his drone strikes killed innocents 90% of the time and that's on him, Bush never bombed an MSF hospital to my knowledge, and Obama cranked up the anti-immigration policies over Bush, including the expansion of putting children in cages. Obama didn't move left, he moved right.



Already tried, already failed.



"We need to be realistic" is the rallying cry of the moderate. I think there's a great quote about this somewhere.

Yes, you do like excusing Republicans and blaming Obama for the same.

The person he is talking about is you. You who think 4 more years of Trump is a good enough reason to wait for President Bernie. You who think 4 years of Trump was worth it to stick it to Democrats. If you think MLK would be ok with Trump as President for any amount of time, then you don't know shit about MLK.

If you dont like Biden, then do something besides not vote. Something tangible, something that gets something done. Then I will praise you. Me? I am voting against Trump.

 

[fOx]

Education can be bad if you're teaching lies.
Activism can be bad if you're advocating for deadly policies.
Labor can be bad if your work tears things down.

You're doing the first two in this thread.

You see, I keep people throwing around the words "good" and "bad." I've probably thoughtlessly thrown the terms around myself. But the reality is that good and bad are moral concepts with no backing. They don't exist. For most people, "good" and "evil" are just shorthands for "beneficial to me, personally," and "non beneficial to me, personally." We need to do away with the concept of morality altogether, and move towards an egoistic understanding of the world.

We can't have a societal structure that supports the few at the expense of the many. It's untenable. And while I don't blame the wealthy for supporting their own rational self interest by supporting capitalism, they can hardly be surprised when the working class do the same.

 

[fOx]

Yes, you do like excusing Republicans and blaming Obama for the same.

The person he is talking about is you. You who think 4 more years of Trump is a good enough reason to wait for President Bernie. You who think 4 years of Trump was worth it to stick it to Democrats. If you think MLK would be ok with Trump as President for any amount of time, then you don't know shit about MLK.

If you dont like Biden, then do something besides not vote. Something tangible, something that gets something done. Then I will praise you. Me? I am voting against Trump.

I don't think he's saying that MLK would be ok with trump. I think he's saying that MLK would be more frustrated with moderate democrats, like biden supporters, then he would be with hostile republicans, like far right trump supporters.

Which makes sense, given MLK's statement about lukewarm supporters being more frustrating to deal with then KKK members.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Yes, you do like excusing Republicans and blaming Obama for the same.

If I were excusing Republicans for this, I'd say "just vote blue no matter who, it's not a big deal."

The person he is talking about is you. You who think 4 more years of Trump is a good enough reason to wait for President Bernie. You who think 4 years of Trump was worth it to stick it to Democrats. If you think MLK would be ok with Trump as President for any amount of time, then you don't know shit about MLK.

If you dont like Biden, then do something besides not vote. Something tangible, something that gets something done. Then I will praise you. Me? I am voting against Trump.

What Fox said. You're the white moderate in this example, who is willing to ignore people's grievances and tell them "later".

 

[lil devils x]

I don't think he's saying that MLK would be ok with trump. I think he's saying that MLK would be more frustrated with moderate democrats, like biden supporters, then he would be with hostile republicans, like far right trump supporters.

Which makes sense, given MLK's statement about lukewarm supporters being more frustrating to deal with then KKK members.

You do know that MLK was a conservative, and hard core southern baptist right? Biden's brand of " progressiveness' is right up MLK's alley, except Biden would like be too liberal for his tastes as he was also anti abortion according to his own family.

 

[Sneed's SeednFeed]

You do know that MLK was a conservative, and hard core southern baptist right? Biden's brand of " progressiveness' is right up MLK's alley, except Biden would like be too liberal for his tastes.

MLK also espoused the benefits of democratic socialism (disgusting, revolting Bernstein-ism, though admittedly before the dawn of liberation theology) and he attended strikes. He's right up Bernie's alley, and I don't think he'd get tricked by the smoke and mirrors of Biden's shallow appeals to progressivism. He'd be totally against the status quo that Biden represents.

Communism

kinginstitute.stanford.edu

 

[lil devils x]

MLK also espoused the benefits of democratic socialism (disgusting, revolting Bernstein-ism, though admittedly before the dawn of liberation theology) and he attended strikes. He's right up Bernie's alley, and I don't think he'd get tricked by the smoke and mirrors of Biden's shallow appeals to progressivism. He'd be totally against the status quo that Biden represents.

Communism

kinginstitute.stanford.edu

Not from what his own family has stated from weighing in on the subject. His conservative religious beliefs took priority in his life above all else. Biden's politics of late would still be seen as very progressive for MLK's time. Keeping in mind that republicans are still screaming " socialism!" about the ACA subsidized benefits and medicaid expansion that Biden also supports and is planning on expanding. The ability for the poor to receive free healthcare under the ACA is why the republicans are fighting so hard to repeal it.

 

[fOx]

Not from what his own family has stated from weighing in on the subject. His conservative religious beliefs took priority in his life above all else. Biden's politics of late would still be seen as very progressive for MLK's time. Keeping in mind that republicans are still screaming " socialism!" about the ACA subsidized benefits and medicaid expansion that Biden also supports and is planning on expanding. The ability for the poor to receive free healthcare under the ACA is why the republicans are fighting so hard to repeal it.

Given time, King would have come around to communism. Its synonymous with his christian values.

 

[lil devils x]

Given time, King would have come around to communism. Its synonymous with his christian values.

Sander's is a Democratic socialist, not a communist, and while yes, I think some of his policies would align with MLK, MLK also still came from a time when his belief that Homosexuality was a mental illness that needed to be treated was the status quo. I have grown up around a great deal of Southern Baptists, and their religious beliefs are anything but progressive. Keep in mind It was southern baptists of MLK's time that still believed women should wear dresses and not pants. MLK would have very likely also supported Biden's proposal to increase the subsides included in the ACA and medicaid expansion, and would not view that as upholding the "status quo" to ensure free healthcare to the poor.

 

[Sneed's SeednFeed]

Sander's is a Democratic socialist, not a communist, and while yes, I think some of his policies would align with MLK, MLK also still came from a time when his belief that Homosexuality was a mental illness that needed to be treated was the status quo. I have grown up around a great deal of Southern Baptists, and their religious beliefs are anything but progressive. Keep in mind It was southern baptists of MLK's time that still believed women should wear dresses and not pants. MLK would have very likely also supported Biden's proposal to increase the subsides included in the ACA and medicaid expansion, and would not view that as upholding the "status quo" to ensure free healthcare to the poor.

Democratic socialists still believe in doing away with capitalism, they just believe it can be done with reform rather than revolution. Social democrats are the ones who don't necessarily believe that capitalism should be surmounted, but still advocate for reform. In that sense, MLK would've definitely been with Bernie. Biden corresponding to those particular gender values and how much general progress has been made in healthcare only shows that Biden appeals to arch-boomers who forget that it's not the 60s anymore and that modern needs have different demands to what they had in their day. Sanders was the one willing to match that policy on modern terms.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Yes, you do like excusing Republicans and blaming Obama for the same.

He's blaming Obama for doing the same because Obama was supposed to be BETTER. That's what he was billed as, that's what was promised.

Obama had the chance to end the Patriot Act that the Republicans enacted. He did not, he actually expanded it.
Obama had the chance to end torture and close down Guantanamo Bay, which was one of his campaign promises. He did not.
Obama had the chance to deescalate the conflicts we were in, and bring troops home, which to his credit he did...and then he turned around and entered into new conflicts.
During the financial crisis Obama chose to support and bail out banks, and then allowed them to make profits, use the bailout money to pay out bonuses, and foreclose on people's homes rather than doing anything to help people.

No one here is excusing bad Republican policy, but when someone presents themselves as being a symbol of hope, progress and change, but then decides to continue the most damaging policies of their predecessors I think you can totally understand why people are unhappy.

Biden isn't even presenting himself as change for the better, he's presenting himself as a return to the status quo, and the status quo hasn't exactly been good to a lot of people.

 

[Worgen]

Obama had the chance to end torture and close down Guantanamo Bay, which was one of his campaign promises. He did not.

Actually he tried to and he got as close as he could since congress balked at doing it so he instead had to make due with reducing the head count by 83%.

Why Obama failed to close Guantanamo

In his 2008 run for the White House, President Barack Obama promised to shut down the prison for suspected terrorists in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and on his second full day as president he issued an executive order to close it within a year. Eight years later, that has not happened, though the...

www.pbs.org

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Actually he tried to and he got as close as he could since congress balked at doing it so he instead had to make due with reducing the head count by 83%.

Why Obama failed to close Guantanamo

In his 2008 run for the White House, President Barack Obama promised to shut down the prison for suspected terrorists in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and on his second full day as president he issued an executive order to close it within a year. Eight years later, that has not happened, though the...

www.pbs.org

But he had so many dems in congress, why would they stand in the way?

 

[fOx]

Sander's is a Democratic socialist, not a communist, and while yes, I think some of his policies would align with MLK, MLK also still came from a time when his belief that Homosexuality was a mental illness that needed to be treated was the status quo. I have grown up around a great deal of Southern Baptists, and their religious beliefs are anything but progressive. Keep in mind It was southern baptists of MLK's time that still believed women should wear dresses and not pants. MLK would have very likely also supported Biden's proposal to increase the subsides included in the ACA and medicaid expansion, and would not view that as upholding the "status quo" to ensure free healthcare to the poor.

I live, like, an hour from MLK's memorial in atlanta. I understand the southern baptist mindset. MLK would support the majority of governmental and financial policies put forward by sanders. The only issue he was behind on was social issues concerning things like gay marriage. Given time, however, he would see that he could support gay marriage, communist, and a christian, all at the same time. And in fact, that they support one another.

Im all three, and I find that they fit together like a puzzle.

 

[Worgen]

But he had so many dems in congress, why would they stand in the way?

Well, because unlike the republicans, democrats tend to be less willing to just go with whatever, for good or ill.

 

[Saelune]

If I were excusing Republicans for this, I'd say "just vote blue no matter who, it's not a big deal."



What Fox said. You're the white moderate in this example, who is willing to ignore people's grievances and tell them "later".

I am an LGBT person who is tired of being oppressed for being LGBT. You are the person saying I deserved to be shat on for another 4 years cause you want to be spiteful. You want to let me continue to suffer so you can point at my suffering and say 'Told you so' to the only people doing anything to stop it. You want me to suffer for your own selfish interests. YOU are the white moderate willing to let black people suffer and die to prove a point at no expense to yourself.

You do not care about me.

 

[Saelune]

ITT: Privileged straight white men tell the blacks, women and LGBT people we deserve to suffer.

It is no coincidence that I, lildevil and Obsidian Jones are on the opposing side to those who claim to support Bernie but are accepting of Trump.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Well, because unlike the republicans, democrats tend to be less willing to just go with whatever, for good or ill.

Indeed, which is why you should think about who you vote for instead of just uncritically voting blue no matter who.

I am an LGBT person who is tired of being oppressed for being LGBT. You are the person saying I deserved to be shat on for another 4 years cause you want to be spiteful. You want to let me continue to suffer so you can point at my suffering and say 'Told you so' to the only people doing anything to stop it. You want me to suffer for your own selfish interests. YOU are the white moderate willing to let black people suffer and die to prove a point at no expense to yourself.

You do not care about me.

What I want is someone who fixes problems, and I plan on seeing them in office. And I'm doing it now, not on your time table. No 'waiting for a more convenient time'. Unlike you, I actually care about policies implemented, not just the color of the jersey of the person implementing them.

ITT: Privileged straight white men

Incorrect. Perhaps the ugliest face of Biden supporters is their erasure of minorities within the Sanders bloc. Never mind that Biden's supporters skew old and white, never mind that Sanders' supporters are the most diverse of any Dem candidate, if you support Bernie you have to be a straight white male, because the media says so and we have to uncritically listen to the media.

 

[Worgen]

Indeed, which is why you should think about who you vote for instead of just uncritically voting blue no matter who.

Actually I kinda see that as a feature.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Actually I kinda see that as a feature.

Electing Republicans (D) is your desired goal? Is a party of them not enough?