Biden clenches the nomination.

[lil devils x]

He literally said he'd veto Medicare For All.

Then after talking to Bernie, he is willing to compromise. Biden says a lot of things. He talks out of his arse all the time. Not as much as Trump , but enough to know in the end he still will sign it if it makes it to his desk.
Biden is not going to veto any bill Dem's manage to get passed, period, no matter what he may spout off in his foot in the mouth ramblings.

Biden's Health Play In A COVID-19 Economy: Lower Medicare's Eligibility Age To 60

Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden proposes letting 60-year-olds enroll in Medicare. He'd pay for the expansion out of general tax revenue, he says, not the Medicare fund.

www.npr.org

I already linked above EXACTLY what the alternative is as the Republicans already have the ball rolling on their cuts and promise to harm the poor.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

What happens here is all of our responsibility to stop, not just " those dems who did things I don't like". Why is the democrats that you do not support responsibility to stop this from happening if you can't be bothered to do so as well? How is it someone else's fault to stop our citizens from dying if you too are willing to ignore what is happening? So in the end whose responsibility is it if we all just decide, "they do not represent my beliefs so I am just going to not be helpful at all."

For me, I understand that it is just as much my fault as it is Biden's as well if I do nothing and allow the republicans to do what they have promised, and trying to do something after we allow them to have control is really just doing nothing at that point. In the end, those who do nothing are just as responsible for these things happening as those who voted for republicans in the first place.

And yea posting a bunch of links about the past isn't really going to help us stop what is happening as we speak. The links I just provided you are what is happening NOW. We can't do anything about the past, but we can change this.

If links don't matter, don't spam them at me. If context doesn't matter, don't lecture at me. If what a candidate says they're going to do doesn't matter, just don't @ me.

Biden is the worst second worst candidate they could have picked (keep forgetting Bloomberg was in the race before), I'm not voting for him. He'll ruin this country even more than it already is. At this point I seriously don't care what you have to say about Trump. He's awful, he'll ruin the country even more than it already is. But you're not providing an alternative.

The only rational vote is for neither of them. The only moral vote is for neither of them. The only logical vote is for neither of them. I have already been burned uncritically voting democrat before.

 

[lil devils x]

If links don't matter, don't spam them at me. If context doesn't matter, don't lecture at me. If what a candidate says they're going to do doesn't matter, just don't @ me.

Biden is the worst second worst candidate they could have picked (keep forgetting Bloomberg was in the race before), I'm not voting for him. He'll ruin this country even more than it already is. At this point I seriously don't care what you have to say about Trump. He's awful, he'll ruin the country even more than it already is. But you're not providing an alternative.

The only rational vote is for neither of them. The only moral vote is for neither of them. The only logical vote is for neither of them. I have already been burned uncritically voting democrat before.

I never said links do not matter, send all the links in the world from reputable sources that matter to the present, what we are dealing with right now and what is about to happen and how we can make it better and I will read every one of them. I already know what happened in the past. I cannot do ANYTHING to change the past. Unless you have some time machine I don't know about, and some ability to actually change what happened for the better, I don't see the point. The links I am providing you are happening now and we can actually do something about. I am not convinced Pete Buttigieg wasn't worse than Biden either tbh, he was the one trying to tout US healthcare as being the best as well..

I cannot agree doing nothing while knowing what will happen if we do is remotely moral in any possible way. It is just " turning a blind eye" and letting horrific things happen to our family, friends, neighbors... That is how we got into this mess in the first place. Hell if the youth vote had actually turned out, we could have solved this long ago, but in reality, so many are too self absorbed to be bothered even finding out what is going on until it affects them and even then they do not actually find out why it is happening, they would rather believe someone making up shat and talking out of their arse on Youtube than believe the actual truth these days. THIS is the world we live in today and what we are up against to get anything done. How can they even pass medicare for all when we have people listening to Alex Jones, QAnon, or the next idiot of the week instead of believing reality here? Doing nothing just ensures bad things happens, so in the end it is almost as bad as doing the bad things in the first place.

For me, I want to solve problems and understand the urgency of this. If the first plan doesn't work, we try another, then another and then another, and maybe all of them at once and see what does work until we get there, but giving up and not getting there at all isn't an option. It doesn't matter to me how we accomplish what it takes to save lives and get these things done, it is about getting them done however long that takes to make it happen. Faster is better, but that doesn't mean not do it at all if they didn't use my idea. No, you just keep trying until we get results.

ALSO, Why is it you only send links about what Obama did and ignore what Trump IS doing? I already ranted about what Obama did, when he did it, and before he did it, no point in doing that now that it is long past. Now we have the power to try to stop the bad things in progress that I linked above from happening. The future is not set. What can we do now to prevent these bad things from happening in the fall of this year?

ALSO: I don't want you to be uncritical, you should be critical, you should be writing your elected officials and letting them know how you feel. If more people actually bothered to care and get involved maybe we could get these things done faster.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

ALSO, Why is it you only send links about what Obama did and ignore what Trump IS doing? I already ranted about what Obama did, when he did it, no point in doing that now.

 

[lil devils x]

No one is saying forget the past, it is just counterproductive to focus on something else that happened years ago by someone else and saying that is why we should let Trump do bad things now. That isn't doing anything to help the situation now, nor does it apply to our current situation.

You didn't vote for Hillary. Worse things happened under Trumpo than would have happened under Hillary. Trumpo has even worse things in the pipeline for when he wins and you want to repeat what you did before and expect a different result? Bernie did the same thing he did last time. DNC did the same thing they did last time. We can expect the same result if the PEOPLE do the same thing they did last time. The ONLY solution we have at this point is for the people to change what they did, or this story only gets worse from here.

You seem to take lightly the fact that this election will affect the rest of our lives. If the DNC falls apart after this, it will only strengthen the republicans power not empower progressives, progressives will lose more ground than we ever had and likely not be able to gain it back as those holding out will be who are blamed.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

No one is saying forget the past, it is just counterproductive to focus on something else that happened years ago by someone else

I can't help you.

I can provide ample evidence that Biden is a Republican, has been a Republican, and has built his brand on doing exactly what Trump is doing now, and acted on it all the way through his vice presidency and promised it through April of this year for sure, but you don't want to listen.

Because it's happened in the past.

If Biden wins, enjoy social services getting cut. If Trump wins, do better next time. I'm going to vote for someone better than either of these losers in November.

 

[lil devils x]

I can't help you.

I can provide ample evidence that Biden is a Republican, has been a Republican, and has built his brand on doing exactly what Trump is doing now, and acted on it all the way through his vice presidency and promised it through April of this year for sure, but you don't want to listen.

Because it's happened in the past.

If Biden wins, enjoy social services getting cut. If Trump wins, do better next time. I'm going to vote for someone better than either of these losers in November.

You do realize that the majority of the US is still conservative right? How do you get conservatives to vote for a progressive when we have to have conservative votes to have enough people to win?

Biden isn't going to cut social services, look at his plan, he has expansions planned, not cuts.

If Trump wins, there isn't going to be a next time for many people depending on these benefits, and republicans are making it more difficult for democrats to be able to vote at all.. The republicans favorite flavor of the day is voter suppression. Make it so those who do not support them will not be able to vote against them in the future.

The five ways Republicans will crack down on voting rights in 2020 | Carol Anderson

Given what’s at stake next year, the effort to prevent people voting will be fierce. We’ve been here before – and we can stop it, writes Guardian columnist Carol Anderson

www.theguardian.com

After the 2018 blue wave, Republicans are making it harder to vote

Key battleground states like Florida are adopting new voter suppression laws before the 2020 election.

www.motherjones.com

You act like I haven't learned from the past, or I somehow didn't know about " what Obama did" I ranted about what Obama did more than you did WHILE HE WAS DOING IT. I vocally opposed ACA on here and wanted single payer, I linked other plans that were so much better. I posted links about Obama selling out with his back door deals with Pharma. The thing is, comparing everything they have done both good and bad side by side and Trump is making him look like a SAINT in comparison, Trump is really that bad and why this is so important here. Besides, we can't reelect Obama, although even he would be an improvement at this time, Trump even makes Bush look good. It is that scary right now.

 

[lil devils x]

Biden is expanding social services, not cutting them:

Biden releases plans to expand Medicare, forgive student debt

Former Vice President Joe Biden released plans to expand Medicare eligibility and forgive some student debt as he works to unite a fractured Democratic base behind his presumptive 2020 presidential…

thehill.com

Plan to Protect and Build on Obamacare | Joe Biden

Joe Biden will protect and build on Obamacare by giving Americans more choice, reducing health care costs, and making the system less complex to navigate.

joebiden.com

How Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden plans to increase Social Security benefits

Biden, the leading Democratic presidential candidate, has unveiled a plan for Social Security that would prevent the eldest workers from running out of money and the the poorest from retiring into poverty. To do that, his plan calls for raising taxes on high earners.

www.cnbc.com

Joe Biden's Health Care Plan Would Spend $750 Billion More On Obamacare And Cap Drug Price Inflation

Joe Biden’s sweeping success on Super Tuesday doesn’t just establish him as the 2020 Democratic frontrunner. It also elevates the contrast between Biden’s health reform plan and Bernie Sanders’ “Medicare for All.” Here’s what you need to know.

www.forbes.com

In addition:
"FOREIGN POLICY took center stage in Wednesday night’s Democratic debate, with former Vice President Joe Biden saying he would not sell weapons to Saudi Arabia — marking a sharp contrast with the Obama administration — and stressing he would make the Saudis “pay the price” for their killing of Washington Post contributor Jamal Khashoggi. "

“I would make it very clear we were not going to in fact sell more weapons to them,” Biden said. “We were going to in fact make them pay the price, and make them in fact the pariah that they are.” Biden also said there is “very little social redeeming value in the present government in Saudi Arabia,” and, in reference to Yemen, said he would end “end the sale of material to the Saudis where they’re going in and murdering children.”

At Debate, Joe Biden Says He Would Make Saudi Arabia a “Pariah”

Biden also made some blunders during Wednesday's Democratic debate, including saying we have to keep “punching at” domestic violence.

theintercept.com

Though Tbh, I don't believe much that Biden says. I do believe he will do whatever democrats manage to get on his desk though in the end. It is nice to know he doesn't like Saudi Arabia and will not try to nuzzle them as Trump does for personal gain.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

You do realize that the majority of the US is still conservative right? How do you get conservatives to vote for a progressive when we have to have conservative votes to have enough people to win?

Biden isn't going to cut social services, look at his plan, he has expansions planned, not cuts.

If Trump wins, there isn't going to be a next time for many people depending on these benefits, and republicans are making it more difficult for democrats to be able to vote at all.. The republicans favorite flavor of the day is voter suppression. Make it so those who do not support them will not be able to vote against them in the future.

The five ways Republicans will crack down on voting rights in 2020 | Carol Anderson

Given what’s at stake next year, the effort to prevent people voting will be fierce. We’ve been here before – and we can stop it, writes Guardian columnist Carol Anderson

www.theguardian.com

After the 2018 blue wave, Republicans are making it harder to vote

Key battleground states like Florida are adopting new voter suppression laws before the 2020 election.

www.motherjones.com

You act like I haven't learned from the past, or I somehow didn't know about " what Obama did" I ranted about what Obama did more than you did WHILE HE WAS DOING IT. I vocally opposed ACA on here and wanted single payer, I linked other plans that were so much better. I posted links about Obama selling out with his back door deals with Pharma. The thing is, comparing everything they have done both good and bad side by side and Trump is making him look like a SAINT in comparison, Trump is really that bad and why this is so important here. Besides, we can't reelect Obama, although even he would be an improvement at this time, Trump even makes Bush look good. It is that scary right now.

Clearly you don't remember that the ACA came with a Medicaid cut, nor do you remember that in 2012 Obama and Biden approached the Republicans with a 4 trillion dollar cut to SS and other services over 10 years, and I have to ask if you're aware that Biden has spent literally his entire career calling for or successfully cutting social safety nets, then I have to ask if you know that Biden has told the banks who are donating to him this election that he hasn't changed and will continue to fight for them and do this.

I already know you ignore when Biden said he would veto M4A if it came to him, has reaffirmed this in April, and has yet to say otherwise.

Don't post links at me, I don't care.

 

[Hawki]

You do realize that the majority of the US is still conservative right?

In what sense though? My understanding was that in terms of numbers, more people are progressive than conservative (least on the US political spectrum) - it's why Trump can be president despite losing the popular vote, and he isn't the first president where he's won like that. Problem is that the electoral college is in favour of Republicans.

There's also a repeated claim that the majority of the populace is in favour of things that the Republicans traditionally oppose, such as gun control, healthcare, and the Green New Deal. If I'm taking that claim as writ, then in theory, there should be popular support for DNC policies.

 

[lil devils x]

Clearly you don't remember that the ACA came with a Medicaid cut, nor do you remember that in 2012 Obama and Biden approached the Republicans with a 4 trillion dollar cut to SS and other services over 10 years, and I have to ask if you're aware that Biden has spent literally his entire career calling for or successfully cutting social safety nets, then I have to ask if you know that Biden has told the banks who are donating to him this election that he hasn't changed and will continue to fight for them and do this.

I already know you ignore when Biden said he would veto M4A if it came to him, has reaffirmed this in April, and has yet to say otherwise.

Don't post links at me, I don't care.

I didn't ignore it, I showed you what he stated after the fact. Yesterday's news can change tomorrow, He changed his tune and platform AFTER Bernie talked to him and his official stance now is he wants to expand medicare and lower the age. How do you think he was able to get Bernie's endorsement?

I also said above I don't really believe much of what Biden says while out blabbermouthing, he claims to have done all sorts of stuff that never happened. I still say there is no way he would actually veto the bill if they got it to his desk, but I ALSO do not think it would have gotten through congress within the next 4 years even if Bernie were in the Oval office instead of Biden. We have a long way to go in congress before that can happen, so the best Bernie or you and I can hope for right now is an expansion and another expansion and another until it actually gets there.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

In what sense though? My understanding was that in terms of numbers, more people are progressive than conservative (least on the US political spectrum) - it's why Trump can be president despite losing the popular vote, and he isn't the first president where he's won like that. Problem is that the electoral college is in favour of Republicans.

There's also a repeated claim that the majority of the populace is in favour of things that the Republicans traditionally oppose, such as gun control, healthcare, and the Green New Deal. If I'm taking that claim as writ, then in theory, there should be popular support for DNC policies.

Progressive policies, not DNC policies.

 

[lil devils x]

In what sense though? My understanding was that in terms of numbers, more people are progressive than conservative (least on the US political spectrum) - it's why Trump can be president despite losing the popular vote, and he isn't the first president where he's won like that. Problem is that the electoral college is in favour of Republicans.

There's also a repeated claim that the majority of the populace is in favour of things that the Republicans traditionally oppose, such as gun control, healthcare, and the Green New Deal. If I'm taking that claim as writ, then in theory, there should be popular support for DNC policies.

In terms of regions to win. Because not all votes are equal in the US due to how regions are divided, unless we can convince all the democrats to move from the cities and into Mitch McConnell's and Rand Paul's districts and boot all their arses, we still have to manage to win some conservative districts to get the white house and majority in congress. In much of the US, " liberal" is a dirty word due to decades of mindless propaganda.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

I didn't ignore it, I showed you what he stated after the fact. Yesterday's news can change tomorrow, He changed his tune and platform AFTER Bernie talked to him and his official stance now is he wants to expand medicare and lower the age. How do you think he was able to get Bernie's endorsement?

You know what that isn't? Supporting M4A, one of the most popular policies in the country.

I also said above I don't really believe much of what Biden says while out blabbermouthing, he claims to have done all sorts of stuff that never happened. I still say there is no way he would actually veto the bill if they got it to his desk, but I ALSO do not think it would have gotten through congress within the next 4 years even if Bernie were in the Oval office instead of Biden. We have a long way to go in congress before that can happen, so the best Bernie or you and I can hope for right now is an expansion and another expansion and another until it actually gets there.

Incorrect.

 

[Hawki]

Progressive policies, not DNC policies.

What's the difference though?

I'm not trying to be snarky, but my understanding was that the DNC was considered "progressive," at least by the standards in the US (a country I don't live in, hence my ignorance). Even if the DNC itself is probably center-right, its policies on healthcare and climate change were, I thought, considered progressive.

 

[lil devils x]

Progressive policies, not DNC policies.

Yes and no due to gerrymandering and how regions are divided. Many vote against their own interests due to conservative media strangleholds over most of the rural US and having rural areas given more representation than populated regions.

 

[lil devils x]

What's the difference though?

I'm not trying to be snarky, but my understanding was that the DNC was considered "progressive," at least by the standards in the US (a country I don't live in, hence my ignorance). Even if the DNC itself is probably center-right, its policies on healthcare and climate change were, I thought, considered progressive.

All of the mainstream in the US is conservative leaning, there is only a small faction of elected officials that are actually considered " progressive" by world standards. The rural regions are over represented making their votes count more than populated regions. They have allowed Republicans to gerrymander maps to make it so democrats have to win by huge margins to even win at all.

Just read about Redmap and the software republicans used to accomplish this, and yes anywhere else this would be insanely illegal, but the GOP stacked the bench as well so they have their crony judges rule in their favor.

The Secret Files of the Master of Modern Republican Gerrymandering

Newly obtained records and e-mails show that Thomas Hofeller collected data about the voting patterns of Americans based on their race.

www.newyorker.com

How Redistricting Became a Technological Arms Race

Advances in data, computing, and fundraising have given politicians new power to gerrymander democracy away.

www.theatlantic.com

Trump's transformation of the courts barrels onward

WASHINGTON (AP) — Amid intense focus on impeachment and year-end deals on spending and trade, the Senate hurtled this week toward a less-heralded accomplishment: confirming another batch of conservative judges.

apnews.com

 

[crimson5pheonix]

What's the difference though?

I'm not trying to be snarky, but my understanding was that the DNC was considered "progressive," at least by the standards in the US (a country I don't live in, hence my ignorance). Even if the DNC itself is probably center-right, its policies on healthcare and climate change were, I thought, considered progressive.

The DNC is supposed to be a tentpole organization for basically everyone left of the Republicans, who are very right wing. However the core of the DNC is controlled by people who would be called center right only in a very charitable way. The current philosophy of the DNC has been dominated by "Third way politics", started by Bill Clinton in the 90's. This policy is to go left on social issues but right on economic issues. This worked in the 90's when there was a spoiler candidate against Bush Sr that put Clinton in office, and basically hasn't worked since on the national stage.

The end result is you have candidates who, when it becomes politically dangerous to not support identity politics, will give something out like gay marriage, but will be unwavering in their support of right wing austerity economics and amplify the wealth divide between the rich and poor.

The progressive wing is large, but still minority wing within the party who wants actual left wing policies all around, but the DNC blocks them whenever possible.

EDIT: And them being a minority wing is debatable, with all the voter suppression both parties put out that disproportionally affect progressives, it's difficult to tell just how populous the right wing of the DNC is compared to the left.

 

[lil devils x]

The DNC is supposed to be a tentpole organization for basically everyone left of the Republicans, who are very right wing. However the core of the DNC is controlled by people who would be called center right only in a very charitable way. The current philosophy of the DNC has been dominated by "Third way politics", started by Bill Clinton in the 90's. This policy is to go left on social issues but right on economic issues. This worked in the 90's when there was a spoiler candidate against Bush Sr that put Clinton in office, and basically hasn't worked since on the national stage.

The end result is you have candidates who, when it becomes politically dangerous to not support identity politics, will give something out like gay marriage, but will be unwavering in their support of right wing austerity economics and amplify the wealth divide between the rich and poor.

The progressive wing is large, but still minority wing within the party who wants actual left wing policies all around, but the DNC blocks them whenever possible.

EDIT: And them being a minority wing is debatable, with all the voter suppression both parties put out that disproportionally affect progressives, it's difficult to tell just how populous the right wing of the DNC is compared to the left.

The Six Wings Of The Democratic Party

There’s a lot of news right now about conflicts within the Democratic Party, and similar stories will likely continue to pop up for the next two years. Much of …

fivethirtyeight.com

It depends on what you call "progressive" vs the US progressive vs world progressive, as they are all different things.

Progressives still do not have a majority even in what we would like to think as progressive districts,. It isn't like we do not have plenty of progressives run on their own outside of democratic party, they just do not get the time of day from voters for the most part. In Europe though it is considered "extremist far right" to not have the social safety nets they consider the norm in place that the republicans here call extreme and communist. I believe The Socialist phobia in the US is thicker than anywhere else on earth.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

The Six Wings Of The Democratic Party

There’s a lot of news right now about conflicts within the Democratic Party, and similar stories will likely continue to pop up for the next two years. Much of …

fivethirtyeight.com

It depends on what you call "progressive" vs the US progressive vs world progressive, as they are all different things.

Progressives still do not have a majority even in what we would like to think as progressive districts,. It isn't like we do not have plenty of progressives run on their own outside of democratic party, they just do not get the time of day from voters for the most part. In Europe though it is considered "extremist far right" to not have the social safety nets they consider the norm in place that the republicans here call extreme and communist. I believe The Socialist phobia in the US is thicker than anywhere else on earth.

M4A is literally one of the most popular policies in American politics today, even across party lines. The ones most afraid of socialism are the DNC, who would lose their cushy jobs if people realized they didn't have to listen to their spineless austerity drivel.

As for how big the progressive wing(s) is/are in the democrat party, the DNC outright cheated Sanders this year again, progressives are the most suppressed voters by both parties due to years of bipartisan work, and Sander stopped campaigning well over a month ago.

He still has nearly 40% of the delegates assigned so far. And a lot of Biden's delegates are in states that would (and will) go Republican no matter the gerrymandering in them.