Shooting in Boulder, CO Leaves 10 Dead, Including One Police Officer

[CriticalGaming]

Then stop making excuses for the fucking pigs.

Yeah that's a healthy response. I hope you never get in trouble and have to rely on the "fucking pigs" for help.

I've been harassed by cops even though I did nothing wrong. Take your cliched, hollow advice and ram it.

So have I and I am a white dude. You don't know what's going on around you. You don't know that they may be looking for someone similar to your discription, there are all kinds of reasons as to why you might be stopped. But that doesn't equal harassment, and if you don't act like an asshole you will be fine.

Then again you think they're "fucking pigs" so.....

 

[Baffle]

For fuck sake America. How many more innocent people have to needlessly die before you do something about your gun problem?

How many innocent people are there in America? It's the same picture.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Im sure that 100s of justified arrests, and correctly performed police encounters happen every single day, but when you hear stories of police shooting people who are asleep, or rape and murder women who walk home alone at night (this one happened just recently in the UK), or the police breach the wrong house and start shooting people, or they unload their weapons into vehicles, with no consideration for bystanders, or who might be in those vehicles, you can't just "not do the crime thing". You have to start asking questions.

I mean we could replace the force with robots.

I don't think people understand all the stress and all that can go wrong every single day. The police are still human until Skynet takes over and shit will happen, but shit happening doesn't equal a group of evil bastards with a badge. I just think the media has skewed and harmed perception of police, race, and any number of things for the worse and it's not a good outlook to have.

Ask questions, but don't just ask questions of the cops. Ask questions as to why the suspect was doing what they were doing, what caused them to lash out, what would they have done had the cop not acted, who would they have hurt, whatever it was.

You can't look at things where the suspect is trying to steal a cop's gun and go, "Gee I wonder why the cop shot that dude." Because anyone with common sense should understand. And I hate that we have to act like the cops shouldn't be allowed to defend their lives.

 

[Thaluikhain]

But that doesn't equal harassment, and if you don't act like an asshole you will be fine.

In many cases, that is simply not true. Putting aside acting like an asshole (as defined by the police, apparently), shouldn't be grounds for execution, the US police force is notorious for killing innocent people for a reason. And of not being held accountable, as a rule.

 

[Buyetyen]

Yeah that's a healthy response. I hope you never get in trouble and have to rely on the "fucking pigs" for help.

So do I. Because I don't trust them. Why would I?

So have I and I am a white dude. You don't know what's going on around you. You don't know that they may be looking for someone similar to your discription, there are all kinds of reasons as to why you might be stopped. But that doesn't equal harassment, and if you don't act like an asshole you will be fine.

Then again you think they're "fucking pigs" so.....

Please, tell me how I misinterpreted my own experiences some more. Tell me all about how it's okay to be screamed at by a cop for making a legal right turn, to be threatened for a minor traffic violation, to be given a written warning just for walking my dog. Please tell me all about why racial profiling is a good thing and makes the cops into holy, blameless creatures. Tell me all about how the slightest misdemeanor justifies disproportionate force on the part of police up to and including extrajudicial execution on the spot. Go ahead, make the excuses. Let's hear them. Tell me why all of this is okay.

 

[Baffle]

but shit happening doesn't equal a group of evil bastards with a badge.

Are you old enough to remember Rodney King?

 

[Buyetyen]

I don't think people understand all the stress and all that can go wrong every single day.

Being a road worker is a more physically dangerous job than being a cop.

The police are still human until Skynet takes over and shit will happen, but shit happening doesn't equal a group of evil bastards with a badge.

When the bad shit happening is systemic, yes it does.

I just think the media has skewed and harmed perception of police, race, and any number of things for the worse and it's not a good outlook to have.

You know what's not a good outlook? The blue wall.

Ask questions as to why the suspect was doing what they were doing, what caused them to lash out, what would they have done had the cop not acted, who would they have hurt, whatever it was.

Yeah, cops never do anything inappropriate or out of line. It's always the person they murder who's at fault.
/s

You can't look at things where the suspect is trying to steal a cop's gun and go, "Gee I wonder why the cop shot that dude." Because anyone with common sense should understand. And I hate that we have to act like the cops shouldn't be allowed to defend their lives.

Yeah, Eric Garner selling loose cigarettes was totally a valid reason to choke him to death. What the actual fuck, man?

 

[CriticalGaming]

Please tell me all about why racial profiling is a good thing and makes the cops into holy, blameless creatures.

Im not justifying racial profiling. I don't know where you equate that.

Are you old enough to remember Rodney King?

Yes I am. That event was a product of it's time and ushered in a turning point within the police for the most part.

I wont excuse the shit that continues to happen, like Floyd, and that dude in Florida who did an illegal choke hold that killed that other dude. I'm not saying that these events don't happen and they shouldn't be excused.

I am all for police reform, wearing body cams and holding action accountable is a great idea and should be a requirement and hopefully soon it will be.

What I'm against is thinking that these events mean the whole force is evil and should be defunded, because no law enforcement is much worse than mediocre law enforcement.

 

[Buyetyen]

Im not justifying racial profiling. I don't know where you equate that.

Still waiting for you to tell me why all of my experiences with cops are my fault.

Yes I am. That event was a product of it's time and ushered in a turning point within the police for the most part.

The pigs got away with it. How in fuck's name was that a turning point?

I'm not saying that these events don't happen and they shouldn't be excused.

Then why are you making excuses for them?

What I'm against is thinking that these events mean the whole force is evil and should be defunded, because no law enforcement is much worse than mediocre law enforcement.

First of all, we don't have mediocre law enforcement, we have counter-productive law enforcement. There's a difference.

Second, when people call to defund the cops, they're referring to demilitarizing them.

Third, until you're willing to stand up to the FOP, no reform will ever stick.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Being a road worker is a more physically dangerous job than being a cop.

So is working on an oil rig out at sea. What's your point?

When the bad shit happening is systemic, yes it does.

How is it systemic? The system would have to be written to allow for this consequence free and that doesn't happen. Police have rules and are punished when they break them. Unless you mean the few cases in which cops have gotten "away" with something you didn't agree with but still followed reasonable procedure?

Yeah, cops never do anything inappropriate or out of line. It's always the person they murder who's at fault.

I never said that.

Yeah, Eric Garner selling loose cigarettes was totally a valid reason to choke him to death. What the actual fuck, man?

See example in previous post. I agree this was fucked up and should not have happened. Though to be fair, Garner resisted arrest and if he had just let himself be arrested he would be alive today, just saying. The family was awarded 6 million dollars and the police officer responsible was fired (unfortunately five years too late).

Frankly shouldn't have happened and that officer should be in jail.

 

[Buyetyen]

So is working on an oil rig out at sea. What's your point?



How is it systemic? The system would have to be written to allow for this consequence free and that doesn't happen. Police have rules and are punished when they break them. Unless you mean the few cases in which cops have gotten "away" with something you didn't agree with but still followed reasonable procedure?



I never said that.



See example in previous post. I agree this was fucked up and should not have happened. Though to be fair, Garner resisted arrest and if he had just let himself be arrested he would be alive today, just saying. The family was awarded 6 million dollars and the police officer responsible was fired (unfortunately five years too late).

Frankly shouldn't have happened and that officer should be in jail.

Still waiting on you to explain my own personal experiences to me. You spoke with such confidence before, what changed?

 

[Xprimentyl]

I mean we could replace the force with robots.

I don't think people understand all the stress and all that can go wrong every single day. The police are still human until Skynet takes over and shit will happen, but shit happening doesn't equal a group of evil bastards with a badge. I just think the media has skewed and harmed perception of police, race, and any number of things for the worse and it's not a good outlook to have.

Ask questions, but don't just ask questions of the cops. Ask questions as to why the suspect was doing what they were doing, what caused them to lash out, what would they have done had the cop not acted, who would they have hurt, whatever it was.

You can't look at things where the suspect is trying to steal a cop's gun and go, "Gee I wonder why the cop shot that dude." Because anyone with common sense should understand. And I hate that we have to act like the cops shouldn't be allowed to defend their lives.

...*sigh*

When you've got countless examples in recent history, not to mention the centuries of examples, of members of an institution using the impunity of said institution to abuse their authority, you are morally OBLIGATED to question that institution, particularly when its member wield the kind of power that dictates who lives and who dies. It doesn't matter if they perform their duties correctly 99% of the time, if that 1% is willfully at the expense of an innocent-to-minorly guilty person's life, you MUST question the institution. The "benefit of the doubt," the "blind eye," is exactly how the senseless, racially motivated violence by police has been allowed to perpetuate as long as it has. Saying "don't question them" now ironically flies directly in the face of one of the highest tenets of the law which is "innocent until proven guilty;" how do you prove guilt? You QUESTION. How many officers have to be overtly "guilty" before people like you, those for whom the problem isn't, are willing to say "there is a problem. Not my problem, but *A* problem nonetheless?"

 

[Baffle]

Yes I am. That event was a product of it's time and ushered in a turning point within the police for the most part.

I just did a quick seance and Walter Scott said you're wrong. There was a guy behind him, George something, but I couldn't hear him over Scott being shot in the back.

The only thing that keeps the police honest is being recorded and held to account -- and they should absolutely have no problem with that. They should implement a new smart-link system where the gun only works if the body cam is on. Bet they'd remember to turn them on then.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Still waiting for you to tell me why all of my experiences with cops are my fault.

I dont know all your experiences with cops, but you are clearly angry towards them so maybe body language? I dunno, i dunno you.

The pigs got away with it. How in fuck's name was that a turning point?

Wayback Machine

There are documents in which investigations of the LAPD which did find excess bruality and abuse throughout the department and police then underwent reform, training, policy changes, new regulations, and all sorts of shit to try and clean it up. Police in the 90's were fucking wack.

However I believe the institution overall has changed for the better. Shit still happens and we have to try and stop it, but each event leads to more accountability and less future events.

First of all, we don't have mediocre law enforcement, we have counter-productive law enforcement.

What do you mean?

 

[Xprimentyl]

They should implement a new smart-link system where the gun only works if the body cam is on. Bet they'd remember to turn them on then.

This is fucking brilliant. FUCKING. BRILLIANT.

 

[Baffle]

How many officers have to be overtly "guilty" before people like you, those for whom the problem isn't, are willing to say "there is a problem. Not my problem, but *A* problem nonetheless?"

You would be surprised at just how badly this went for middle class white people at the vigil held for a woman murdered by an off-duty cop in the UK recently.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Walter Scott said you're wrong

And that officer is serving 20 years in prison. So.....A racist fuckwad gets prisoned. I don't see how that isn't held accountable for his actions (unlike the Rodney King officers)

The only thing that keeps the police honest is being recorded and held to account -- and they should absolutely have no problem with that. They should implement a new smart-link system where the gun only works if the body cam is on. Bet they'd remember to turn them on then.

This is a good idea. Have you seen the video of the officer shooting the dude who charged him with a samurai sword? Or the female officer who shot the guy charging her with a butcher's knife?

The knife guy lived and the Sword guy died, but there wasn't much coverages because everyone involved was white, so who fucking cares I guess.

Personally I think the body cam should be on 100% of the time the officer is on duty. And any attempt to cover the camera should result in immediate firing.

 

[Baffle]

Have you seen the video of the officer shooting the dude who charged him with a samurai sword? Or the female officer who shot the guy charging her with a butcher's knife?
The knife guy lived and the Sword guy died, but there wasn't much coverages because everyone involved was white, so who fucking cares I guess.

Maybe no one cares because in both cases there was video evidence of a clear danger to life? I haven't seen the footage but that's how you've described it. I mean, we've all seen and been horrified by the Daniel Shaver footage, and he was white.

 

[Xprimentyl]

The knife guy lived and the Sword guy died, but there wasn't much coverages because everyone involved was white, so who fucking cares I guess.

Well, shit, that's just being willfully obtuse. Equating white people ATTACKING officers and getting killed to black people selling loose cigarettes or passing of a fake $20 bill and getting killed? Are you serious? Those are the same to you?

The problem isn't just "police killing people." They are armed because their job merits that that is a potentiality every, single day. The problem is police killing people discriminately and disproportionately people of color. I guess as long as you have the privilege, you'll never understand the problem... which is a huge part of the problem.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Well, shit, that's just being willfully obtuse. Equating white people ATTACKING officers and getting killed to black people selling loose cigarettes or passing of a fake $20 bill and getting killed?

Actually the point I tired to make there was that one person shot to wound and stop, the other shot to kill. I guess bad example fair enough

The problem is police killing people discriminately and disproportionately people of color

The problem is we aren't asking why that's the case IMO. I have more faith in people than thinking that police just go black dude hunting everyday. So I'd like to know the reason why this appears to be the case. Especially since the consequences for abuse of power are becoming more and more prevalent with more and more cameras out in the world.

Oh well, I guess my white ass brain can never understand. Buh bye.