US 2024 Presidential Election

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Chimpzy

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I agree. All those ugly stealth fighters should be replaced with big beautiful (and very expensive) jets. But why stop at 2 engines. Give it 4 engines, one engine more than China's new J-50 plane. Wait, no, an extra fifth for the AI Assist. And paint all planes red so they'll go faster.
 

Chimpzy

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Damn straight! Springsteen's nickname might be the Boss, but he ain't THE BOSS.
 
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meiam

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I agree. All those ugly stealth fighters should be replaced with big beautiful (and very expensive) jets. But why stop at 2 engines. Give it 4 engines, one engine more than China's new J-50 plane. Wait, no, an extra fifth for the AI Assist. And paint all planes red so they'll go faster.
As much as I hate to admit it, the era of the jet plane is pretty much at its end. In Ukraine, Russia barely ever dare to fly over Ukraine, despite having a much bigger air force, because of how vulnerable their plane are to any AA. With cheap drone (and semi expensive predator like drone, but still much cheaper than jet plane), there's just no reason to develop new one at this point, especially with how insanely expensive developing the 35 and 22 were. Plus the F 22 is still pretty much unrivaled and has yet to ever take any form of serious action, no, shooting an air balloon (only target ever shoot down by an F22) does not count.
 

Trunkage

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As much as I hate to admit it, the era of the jet plane is pretty much at its end. In Ukraine, Russia barely ever dare to fly over Ukraine, despite having a much bigger air force, because of how vulnerable their plane are to any AA. With cheap drone (and semi expensive predator like drone, but still much cheaper than jet plane), there's just no reason to develop new one at this point, especially with how insanely expensive developing the 35 and 22 were. Plus the F 22 is still pretty much unrivaled and has yet to ever take any form of serious action, no, shooting an air balloon (only target ever shoot down by an F22) does not count.
I would like to see the US have a crack at a similar defense system before saying this is completely true. I'll note that their air defense systems are WAY weaker than a country like Finland's. They might be impenetrable. So it sure does look like it's heading that way.
 

The Rogue Wolf

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The man who declared bankruptcy four times tells Walmart to "eat the costs" of his tariffs.


Here's an interesting juxtaposition: The head of the Republican party is telling business to give up profits in order to keep costs down for the consumer.
 

crimson5pheonix

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The man who declared bankruptcy four times tells Walmart to "eat the costs" of his tariffs.


Here's an interesting juxtaposition: The head of the Republican party is telling business to give up profits in order to keep costs down for the consumer.
When is chairman Trump going to start executing the landlords?
 
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Gergar12

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I agree. All those ugly stealth fighters should be replaced with big beautiful (and very expensive) jets. But why stop at 2 engines. Give it 4 engines, one engine more than China's new J-50 plane. Wait, no, an extra fifth for the AI Assist. And paint all planes red so they'll go faster.
We have a two-engine F-35; it's called the F-22. I think Trump just wants to force Boeing to sell him cheaper jets(F-47), like he did with Lockheed with the F-35. Sadly, if you do it too many times, people start to see through it.

Also, the J-50 has two engines, the J-35 has three for unknown reasons. I know a very specific correction.

As much as I hate to admit it, the era of the jet plane is pretty much at its end. In Ukraine, Russia barely ever dare to fly over Ukraine, despite having a much bigger air force, because of how vulnerable their plane are to any AA. With cheap drone (and semi expensive predator like drone, but still much cheaper than jet plane), there's just no reason to develop new one at this point, especially with how insanely expensive developing the 35 and 22 were. Plus the F 22 is still pretty much unrivaled and has yet to ever take any form of serious action, no, shooting an air balloon (only target ever shoot down by an F22) does not count.
China, Russia, and the EU are all building them. You still need high-flying jets to kill high-flying threats.
 

tstorm823

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Here's an interesting juxtaposition: The head of the Republican party is telling business to give up profits in order to keep costs down for the consumer.
That's been a role of the Republican Party essentially since its inception. Federal anti-trust law started when Republicans dominated after the Civil War. The "Sherman" of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act was a Republican. It's the trust busting party. (It's also the union busting party as those also drive prices up for consumers, for what it's worth.) Wanting costs down for consumers is one of the few through-lines that philosophically tie otherwise varied generations of Republicans together. If anything, it's less surprising to hear a Republican say that than it is to have Trump match Republicans from a century ago.
 

Agema

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As much as I hate to admit it, the era of the jet plane is pretty much at its end. In Ukraine, Russia barely ever dare to fly over Ukraine, despite having a much bigger air force, because of how vulnerable their plane are to any AA. With cheap drone (and semi expensive predator like drone, but still much cheaper than jet plane), there's just no reason to develop new one at this point, especially with how insanely expensive developing the 35 and 22 were. Plus the F 22 is still pretty much unrivaled and has yet to ever take any form of serious action, no, shooting an air balloon (only target ever shoot down by an F22) does not count.
Whilst I would agree it looks like we're heading towards an era where traditional pilotted jets may be obsolete, there are several factors for why the Russia-Ukraine war might not be so representative.

Firstly, because the Soviets predicted they would lose the air war in a NATO-Soviet confrontation, Soviet air doctrine was based around air operations in their own territory or close to the frontline to reduce plane vulnerabiility. As a post Soviet state, Russia has continued this trend. Therefore, you might not expect Russia to try to the same sort of air domination that the USA would. Secondly, yes, AA: as a post-Soviet state with the legacy of Soviet doctrine, Ukraine is also centred around generous ground-based anti-air capability that makes it perilous to try extensive air operations. Thirdly, the Russians are still using Soviet-era technology: even though they will have upgrades since the 1980s, their jets must still be considered relatively vulnerable to anti-air capability.

No country is going to use its latest technology unless it has to: the risk of losing a plane where enemies can get at it - and giving away a lot of secret information on its capabilities - is too high. They want to protect the knowledge for as long as possible. The Russians won't be using their latest jet over Ukraine, and the USA won't be using its over enemy terrain for years unless it's a really major conflict.
 

Eacaraxe

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Here's an interesting juxtaposition: The head of the Republican party is telling business to give up profits in order to keep costs down for the consumer.
Well, yeah -- Trump doesn't want the American electorate adding two and two that his own policies are what's actively driving the country into a second Great Depression. This crap only flew in the first place because enough voters didn't know what a damned tariff was, and refused to listen to literally anyone explaining it to them.

I think there's a psychological element to it, of control...But maybe that's a small price to pay for a feeling of smug superiority.
Or the idiots in charge just watched Dr. Strangelove one too many times without realizing it's satire.
 

Phoenixmgs

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The man who declared bankruptcy four times tells Walmart to "eat the costs" of his tariffs.


Here's an interesting juxtaposition: The head of the Republican party is telling business to give up profits in order to keep costs down for the consumer.
Don't you guys want that though? So shouldn't you be agreeing with Trump?
 

Silvanus

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Don't you guys want that though? So shouldn't you be agreeing with Trump?
I think that Walmart should eat the cost of the Tariff, yes, much as I think all companies should voluntarily increase their wages, give board representation to workers, and end tax avoidance.

Expecting it, or making these voluntary movements a necessity to avoid consumer price hikes, seems foolish somewhat.
 

Agema

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I think that Walmart should eat the cost of the Tariff, yes, much as I think all companies should voluntarily increase their wages, give board representation to workers, and end tax avoidance.
I would argue that Walmart eating the cost of the tariff would make it theoretically harder for Walmart to increase the wages of its workers. (I say theoretically, because I doubt it makes a significant difference - Walmart's decisions on whether to increase worker salaries won't be based on how much money it has spare to do so.)

I would also say that Walmart should not eat the tariff because the public need to be exposed to the outcomes of policy decisions.
 

Silvanus

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I would argue that Walmart eating the cost of the tariff would make it theoretically harder for Walmart to increase the wages of its workers. (I say theoretically, because I doubt it makes a significant difference - Walmart's decisions on whether to increase worker salaries won't be based on how much money it has spare to do so.)
Eh, I'd say the difficulty goes from nil to nil. They had everything they need to comfortably do it before the tariffs, and they still do. Lower profit margins may make them less willing.

I would also say that Walmart should not eat the tariff because the public need to be exposed to the outcomes of policy decisions.
That is one benefit, but I think it's outweighed by a worsened cost-of-living crisis for the poor.
 

Phoenixmgs

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I think that Walmart should eat the cost of the Tariff, yes, much as I think all companies should voluntarily increase their wages, give board representation to workers, and end tax avoidance.

Expecting it, or making these voluntary movements a necessity to avoid consumer price hikes, seems foolish somewhat.
Workers have a part in that as well. Companies aren't just gonna increase wages out of the goodness of their hearts. You wouldn't just pay someone more money to do a job at your house if you didn't have to. People can demand more and utilize their leverage more. A friend got hired on a few years ago as a straight remote job and then the company just recently forced them to commute into Chicago everyday. I told her that if they just all say "no" to that, the company is not gonna fire them all and hire all new people. But people don't wanna do that stuff. I got another friend that's currently working at a place and if she takes 2 days off in row (just calling of because you're sick), she gets a write-up. I told her that I would immediately find another job because I don't put up with bullshit (as you can tell by that one thread I made).
 

Silvanus

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Workers have a part in that as well. Companies aren't just gonna increase wages out of the goodness of their hearts. You wouldn't just pay someone more money to do a job at your house if you didn't have to. People can demand more and utilize their leverage more.
Yes, workers should indeed use their leverage to compel their employers to pay and treat them better, I agree.

As you note, expecting a private company to voluntarily act in the interest of anything except their profit margin-- as Trump is expecting them to do-- is foolhardy.
 

meiam

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Don't you guys want that though? So shouldn't you be agreeing with Trump?
Walmart profit margin are razor thin, they make a lot of money, but only because they have so many stores. Simply put, walmart doesn't have the financial room to absorb tariff even if it wanted to.

But more importantly, I think any authoritarian reach by the government is bad for everyone.

Whilst I would agree it looks like we're heading towards an era where traditional pilotted jets may be obsolete, there are several factors for why the Russia-Ukraine war might not be so representative.

Firstly, because the Soviets predicted they would lose the air war in a NATO-Soviet confrontation, Soviet air doctrine was based around air operations in their own territory or close to the frontline to reduce plane vulnerabiility. As a post Soviet state, Russia has continued this trend. Therefore, you might not expect Russia to try to the same sort of air domination that the USA would. Secondly, yes, AA: as a post-Soviet state with the legacy of Soviet doctrine, Ukraine is also centred around generous ground-based anti-air capability that makes it perilous to try extensive air operations. Thirdly, the Russians are still using Soviet-era technology: even though they will have upgrades since the 1980s, their jets must still be considered relatively vulnerable to anti-air capability.

No country is going to use its latest technology unless it has to: the risk of losing a plane where enemies can get at it - and giving away a lot of secret information on its capabilities - is too high. They want to protect the knowledge for as long as possible. The Russians won't be using their latest jet over Ukraine, and the USA won't be using its over enemy terrain for years unless it's a really major conflict.
Just like Russia air force isn't top of the line, most of Ukraine AA also isn't. It just seem to me that any advantage a new stealth plane has against AA will be eroded in probably less time and money than it took to develop the new plane in the first place.

More importantly, a swarm of cheap drone that cost the same as the plane will probably have a much better chance at achieving their goal, if only because they can overwhelm any form of AA, especially with newer generation that can self pilot and cannot be jam.
 

Agema

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More importantly, a swarm of cheap drone that cost the same as the plane will probably have a much better chance at achieving their goal, if only because they can overwhelm any form of AA, especially with newer generation that can self pilot and cannot be jam.
This will be a typical technological contest - just like can they build armour thicker than the enemy's gun can penetrate - can they make drones immune from enemy countermeasures (jamming or other electronic warfare). I think countries will be very reluctant to give up piloted jets until they feel confident that their drones are secure.
 

Eacaraxe

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I would argue that Walmart eating the cost of the tariff would make it theoretically harder for Walmart to increase the wages of its workers. (I say theoretically, because I doubt it makes a significant difference - Walmart's decisions on whether to increase worker salaries won't be based on how much money it has spare to do so.)...I would also say that Walmart should not eat the tariff because the public need to be exposed to the outcomes of policy decisions.
Eh, I'd say the difficulty goes from nil to nil. They had everything they need to comfortably do it before the tariffs, and they still do. Lower profit margins may make them less willing...That is one benefit, but I think it's outweighed by a worsened cost-of-living crisis for the poor.
I'd like to remind you both Walmart still doesn't pay its workers enough to get or stay off government assistance, so federal and state governments indirectly subsidize Walmart's wages. Which is a situation aggravated by Walmart's anti-competitive practices, meaning that if Walmart employees have other places they can shop for general goods in the first place...they probably can't afford it. So we're in a situation where Walmart gets subsidized wages...which go straight back into Walmart's coffers. It's Gilded Age company town/scrip bullshit, with extra steps.

I believe it when Walmart execs and talking heads claim they can't just "eat the tariffs"...because their business model was already unsustainable, at least not without the government teat. Wage subsidies are just one part of it.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Walmart profit margin are razor thin, they make a lot of money, but only because they have so many stores. Simply put, walmart doesn't have the financial room to absorb tariff even if it wanted to.

But more importantly, I think any authoritarian reach by the government is bad for everyone.
I was the one saying grocery stores weren't price gouging during covid inflation because that didn't make any kind of sense because their profit margins are razor thin. I was just saying the "left" should be in agreement with Trump on this because they don't like companies profiting.

Trump saying companies should do something isn't authoritarian, it's just what he said. The Biden administration "asked" companies to do far more things.