15 year old kills 9 year old neighbor, charged as adult

[PuppetMaster]

it would certainly seem that way, yes. If you wanna tell kids who murder their neighbors, shoot up schools, set fire to the homeless, and stab classmates at parties that Santa will put coal in their stockings then you go right ahead, but somehow I don't think they take you, or you're broken justice system with it's feeble punishments seriously

Obviously, we have different understandings of justice system as well as institutionalization.
Punishment is secondary to me.

This was never meant to be a one sided discussion, by all means share your ideas. As a Canadian liberal who believes in capital punishment, plays with guns and uses a bowie knife for a box cutter (I work in warehouse) you'll find I'm not too left or right winged to debate with anyone

 

[Captain Pancake]

it's premeditated. and by that age, we all know it's just a formality for most 15 year olds to be classed as "children". So yes, I think it was.

 

[Sad Robot]

...eat up resources

And I thought a society's worth was measured by how it treats its worst.

 

[Korolev]

Unless she was mentally retarded, try her as an adult. She planned it, she knew what she was doing, and at the age of 15, you should KNOW what death is. She knew what death was, what it meant and she went through with it.

All her actions show deliberate awareness, callousness, and I don't care if you are depressed, you don't kill other people because of it. That's not depression. That's psychotic behaviour.

She's a murderer, a cold blooded murderer who killed for no other reason than the fact that she could. Let her out and I can guarantee you she will do it again.

 

[Nihilism Theory]

No fucking teens have depression. Don't even start.

your evidently an ignorant fuck arent you.


also i think she ought to be tried as an adult, she's old enough to know killing someone is wrong and there should be consequenses to it. at age 15 your mentaly developed enough to know killing someone is wrong. i sure knew it, and surely enough i've not killed someone yet. (Y)

 

[Ricky_Rio]

No fucking teens have depression. Don't even start.

No as a matter of fact I am not joking. Do you know how many high school girls I met that said they were depressed? A friggin heap. Next thing I know there laughing heartily with their other depressed friends.

As a Teen who has/had clinical depression, I am highly offended by these statements. Depression is a VERY serious medical condition. Those high school girls you mention may well have in fact been depressed, however it is much more likely that they simply wanted attention. True depression is nothing of that sort. From feelings of absolute helplessness to wanting to curl up and die, depression is no laughing matter. Also, a truly depressed person might seem totally normal in the outside world but inside they don't want to do anything or even talk to anyone because they think its just going to make them feel worse about themselves.

 

[Skeleon]

This was never meant to be a one sided discussion, by all means share your ideas. As a Canadian liberal who believes in capital punishment, plays with guns and uses a bowie knife for a box cutter (I work in warehouse) you'll find I'm not too left or right winged to debate with anyone

Fine.
It's about resocialization and reintegration. It's about getting people who were a danger to stop being one and making them a useful part of society again. Pure punishment doesn't do such things.
This is why I'm in favor of education and career planning in jails. For example, there are these programs that help inmates learn all sorts of jobs, electro-technology, mechanics, painter, varnisher, carpenter and so on.
And people who attend these have a greater probality of leaving prison and finding a job despite being an ex-con as well as reintegrating into society. They have a perspective for their future which also means that they are less likely to commit another crime.

Now, in this particular case, it's possible that she cannot be reformed. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. In a cases as difficult as these, she definitely needs therapy. And if the psychiatrists deem her ready to re-enter society afterwards, I'm all for it. If they don't think she's ready, alright. Keep her locked-up.
We sometimes hear of the people that commit violent acts after being released from institutionalization but we never hear of the many people who are reintegrated into society. Overall, I trust the professionals' judgement on this.

 

[Sad Robot]

No as a matter of fact I am not joking. Do you know how many high school girls I met that said they were depressed? A friggin heap. Next thing I know there laughing heartily with their other depressed friends.

Whether or not the girls you mentioned were depressed or not, I can't say, but as someone who suffers from atypical depression I can only say... go educate yourself.

 

[jthm]

No fucking teens have depression. Don't even start.

No as a matter of fact I am not joking. Do you know how many high school girls I met that said they were depressed? A friggin heap. Next thing I know there laughing heartily with their other depressed friends.

As a Teen who has/had clinical depression, I am highly offended by these statements. Depression is a VERY serious medical condition. Those high school girls you mention may well have in fact been depressed, however it is much more likely that they simply wanted attention. True depression is nothing of that sort. From feelings of absolute helplessness to wanting to curl up and die, depression is no laughing matter. Also, a truly depressed person might seem totally normal in the outside world but inside they don't want to do anything or even talk to anyone because they think its just going to make them feel worse about themselves.

This man speaks truth. I suffered through clinical depression from 17 to 24 (now) and I still am subject to it. Despite that, I have managed to hide it from most of my friends and family by acting normal and smiling when I felt like jumping off a building. Teens can become clinically depressed and only someone entirely ignorant of the symptoms and effects on outward behavior could claim otherwise.

 

[PuppetMaster]

...eat up resources

And I thought a society's worth was measured by how it treats its worst.

I don't need to shovel food into a volcano for 8 years before I figure out it's a waste, especially after lots of people have tried it already. We live in a world where the worst rule the system and decide how they're going to be treated by the caring. In an idyllic world; the worst would be treated fairly and swiftly, a child wouldn't be wondering what it's like to kill a little girl when someone who just did is being pulled apart by wild horses instead of trotting off for a 10 year time out

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

No fucking teens have depression. Don't even start.

Such a baseless and inaccurate claim. At the age of fourteen during my exceptionally dark experience in life, the content of my mind would have terrified you. Whilst many use depression to seek attention, there are those with whom have suffered. Some require medication (I did not), while others have strength of will to transcend. Nevertheless such does exist and is an admittedly horrendous and lonely experience.
****

Topic

I must inquire upon this rehabilitation some proscribe as reasonable in terms of punishment, thus allotting the possibility of her ?recovery? as a functioning member of society. Perhaps callous in my contemplation however I am of the mind such is nonsense and I reference this universally. For the case presented; a young woman committed a severe offense against the law and subsequently is entitled to the full consequences for her actions. To conceive a murder scheme is enough evidence to support the notion she was well within her mental capacity to understand simplistic logic, hence in full knowledge of correct and incorrect action.

Judge as you will however my opinion is thus, rehabilitation is a falsified creation and I ponder the value. Rapists, murderers? In what realm of consideration should such? individuals be worthy of reentering society? The severity of such crimes deserves nothing beyond swift execution. Some exceptions may apply as always; for this young woman, ten years of mental rehabilitation is? reluctant justice because society is weak these days.

For those arguing her sentence be less. I am certain the family now in ruin over the loss of their child will be comforted. At least some degree of justice is served, although you know my position.

 

[QuantumT]

What I don't quite understand is people saying that in the legal system she is a minor and thus can't be tried as an adult. It is that very same legal system that has decided to do just that. The legal system has established that there are specific circumstances where a minor can be tried as an adult. These need to be considered on a case by case basis, which is exactly what the system is set up to do.

That is all aside from whether you think it's ethical to try her as an adult, I just wanted to remove this particular argument.

 

[Sad Robot]

...eat up resources

And I thought a society's worth was measured by how it treats its worst.

I don't need to shovel food into a volcano for 8 years before I figure out it's a waste, especially after lots of people have tried it already. We live in a world where the worst rule the system and decide how they're going to be treated by the caring. In an idyllic world; the worst would be treated fairly and swiftly, a child wouldn't be wondering what it's like to kill a little girl when someone who just did is being pulled apart by wild horses instead of trotting off for a 10 year time out

Clearly, we have different understanding of the sentiment I expressed.

 

[PuppetMaster]

...eat up resources

And I thought a society's worth was measured by how it treats its worst.

I don't need to shovel food into a volcano for 8 years before I figure out it's a waste, especially after lots of people have tried it already. We live in a world where the worst rule the system and decide how they're going to be treated by the caring. In an idyllic world; the worst would be treated fairly and swiftly, a child wouldn't be wondering what it's like to kill a little girl when someone who just did is being pulled apart by wild horses instead of trotting off for a 10 year time out

Clearly, we have different understanding of the sentiment I expressed.

that's entirely possible. I simply assumed you thought it was shallow or narrow minded of me to declare the plight and situation of a human being a waste of time and energy
if I'm wrong, elaborate

 

[Sad Robot]

that's entirely possible. I simply assumed you thought it was shallow or narrow minded of me to declare the plight and situation of a human being a waste of time and energy
if I'm wrong, elaborate

Let me get this straight: you consider a society decent, fair and ethical if it were to have its underaged criminals... pulled apart by wild horses?

 

[psychowatcher]

...eat up resources

And I thought a society's worth was measured by how it treats its worst.

I don't need to shovel food into a volcano for 8 years before I figure out it's a waste, especially after lots of people have tried it already. We live in a world where the worst rule the system and decide how they're going to be treated by the caring. In an idyllic world; the worst would be treated fairly and swiftly, a child wouldn't be wondering what it's like to kill a little girl when someone who just did is being pulled apart by wild horses instead of trotting off for a 10 year time out

I have to agree with PuppetMaster. Given the way things are set up, people have a shocking tendency to get off with rather light punishments, most of them completely undeserved. I'm not jaded to the point of saying "Just kill everyone," but there are cases in which, looking at the evidence, the amount of brutality, the callousness of the criminal, and other factors my compassion can't convince me that mercy is in order. This case would be one of them. The depression excuse is what really gets to me. I've suffered depression (actually on medication for it now). It isn't fun, but depressed though I was, I've never decided to go through with killing anyone. I won't deny I haven't though of it, but I knew better. This girl obviously knew she'd get in trouble for killing the little girl. Otherwise, why would she have hidden the body? She should be charged as an adult (which she was) and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. It probably won't happen, knowing how volatile the American justice system is, but I'm hoping that the Bible Belt won't let this slide...

 

[ninjaman 420]

put her in prison. if she was dumb enough to confess after hiding the body really well like the article said then she cant be productive in society. theres plenty of retards out there already

 

[mindclockwork]

just on note that in front of law 15 year olds are considered as adults, theyre responsible like adults to crimes they commit. seriously this teenager should be placed to asylum after prison.

 

[Tonimata]

Personally, I think it's right. At age 15, you know what happens when you kill someone, and she even planned it all out. The fact that she killed just to experience it also doesn't sit very well with me.
A history of depression or not, what she did wasn't right. At all. I just think she really should face the consequences of her actions as an adult. Don't let her off the hook just because she's a "child." Her crime isn't the crime of a child. If that was the case, she would've stolen a bag of cookies or something, not killed a little girl.

Agreed entirely. If anyone is in their right minds to commit murder with that amount of anticipation and just to experiment without bearing in mind the consequences on the other person should be tried like anyone else: harshly. Besides, there is better ways of getting out of a depression than murder. There's these little tablets you see...

 

[Arcane Azmadi]

This is why I think the whole "minor" system is a load of bullshit. Sure, at 15 maybe you're not quite ready to make subtle decisions like who to have sex with. But you should damn well be expected to know the difference between right and wrong, at least as it applies to coldly premeditated murder of an innocent child. The reason we protect children is because they're considered innocents who don't fully understand the world and can be held irresponsible; if she'd compulsively shoved a child off a train platform in front of an oncoming train because the kid was annoying her I'd be slightly more inclined towards sympathy, or at least towards considering it the act of a child. But a coldly premeditated murder committed for the self-confessed reason of seeing what killing felt like? Fuck that noise. Try her as an adult, find her guilty, lock her away.