(2016 Discussion) Grand Theft Auto V

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llsaidknockyouout

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GTA IV had an excellent story and focused in on the atmosphere, satire and overall impression it wanted to create. But it was also very restrained and restricted especially for a GTA game. GTA V was tasked with adding back the chaos and hilarity, which it did, but I also felt it was too unfocused and spread itself thin.

GTA V is a very good game, but with the resources it had, plus the promises it made, it's somewhat disappointing that largest game ever created has evoked no more "yeah, it's fun" out of people.

GTA V is unfocused in its story and themes. It's not sure whether it wants to be South Park or Scarface. It wants to be satirical, but unlike IV and San Andreas, it attacks so many targets so frivolously, it lacks a resonating message. Like Errant Signal said, the game wants to express genuine emotion and then muddle itself in to prevent the player from experience a genuine heartfelt moment.

As San Andreas and IV did, good fantasy writing involves believable characters involved in unbelievable situations. V doesn't have believable characters. It's possible to mix comedy and drama, but GTA V has those elements contradict each other rather than complement. With the story, the involvement of three lead characters results in so many plot threads, that none got the focus they deserved. It would have been better if Michael's story had the most focus, and Trevor/Franklin were ancillary.

From a gameplay perspective, it tries to do hundreds of different things. It does most of them competently but very few of them exceptionally. The driving and auto-customization were great though. The draw of the story mode was the heists, but there's only 6 of them and the majority of them don't give nearly the amount of strategy, complexity and depth as was advertised. The overworld is massive, but a large chunk of it is just barren hills. I would have cut the size of the overworld in half in exchange for each area having more things to do in them.

GTA Online tried to be a part-time MMO, but good MMO's can't be made in one's spare time. All in all, I think GTA V's gameplay has focused on what it isn't rather than what it is. The core of GTA is causing loads of chaos. That's always been the goal. Being a spiritual sequel to San Andreas, I was surprised that there were only a handful of cheat codes that let you disrupt the game. The game hedges its bets with things like mini-games, businesses you can manage, and doing weird by-the-numbers missions for strangers. I wish Rockstar more effort giving the player reasons to have fun in their world rather than trying to take them away from it with games of tennis and such.
 

Casual Shinji

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llsaidknockyouout said:
It's not sure whether it wants to be South Park or Scarface.
This is 5's problem in a nutshell. It wants to be realistic in its portrayal of the underworld and law enforcement, but simutaneously wants to flat-out laugh at everything in the most juvenile way possible, by literally resorting to name-calling. This is why I'd have a hard time calling GTA5 satire. Satire actually requires some subtlety. GTA5 simple takes an existing brand or institution, twists the name into something stupid, and then points and laughs.
 

Evonisia

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Jun 24, 2013
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GTA V is one of the most disappointing games I've ever played. The satire and story has already been touched on in this thread, so all I can say is that the gameplay was at best mixed and at worst lazy. Same mediocre car mechanics coupled with stiff shooting alongside an atrocious aim assist feature. The missions are sometimes quirky and fun, but a lot of them are just forcing you to drive huge ways across the map to show off how pretty it is (admittedly, it is pretty).

It's a gorgeous game, and I got engrossed in the world at least aesthetically, but the game is just a big pile of mediocrity when it could have been so much more.
 

llsaidknockyouout

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It brings forth the question why San Andreas was able to mix humor/chaos with drama.

It's very ironic but V managed to not only be sillier, more immature and more inane than San Andreas, but it also has less fantasy and a greater attention to following real life rules than San Andreas ever did.

San Andreas is a game where you could make other people's cars fly into the air and do lots of crazy stuff by crashing into them but also has genuine characters with genuine moments.
 
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I've always struggled with GTA games. There is just something about them that rubs me the wrong way. San Andreas is the only one I really delved into to any great degree, and I still gave up 3/4 of the way through. I think it's something to do with the tone of the humour and the focus on criminals (not a subject matter that interests me) that just leaves me cold, not mention that I find the gunplay pretty simplistic and underwhelming. While I can appreciate how technically well made they are in many aspects, I just don't find them fun or appealing at all.
 

B-Cell_v1legacy

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GTA franchise to me is the most overrated franchise in the history of gaming. I played almost every GTA game yet i end up quitting them because they bored me.

these games have

Bad Driving
Bad Shooting
Bad story and characters
Boring Missions.

only think they do right is nice and detailed open world.

First Mafia is still better than any GTA game ever made.
 

Bob_McMillan

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When I played Max Payne 3, and experienced how fun the gunplay could be, I was pretty excited to play. Then again with the Rockstar auto aim gameplay...
 

mad825

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Evonisia said:
so all I can say is that the gameplay was at best mixed and at worst lazy. Same mediocre car mechanics coupled with stiff shooting alongside an atrocious aim assist feature. The missions are sometimes quirky and fun, but a lot of them are just forcing you to drive huge ways across the map to show off how pretty it is (admittedly, it is pretty).

It's a gorgeous game, and I got engrossed in the world at least aesthetically, but the game is just a big pile of mediocrity when it could have been so much more.
Ditto.

Ever since GTA 4 it's all been down hill in that department. To be fair every time a new engine is developed or developer uses, the first game that they develop always feel like a tech demo and by GTA 4 standards it was an "experiment" after all.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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The story in every Rockstar game is shallow and so are their characters. They're very good at hiding the shallowness behind semi-witty writing and high production value, but the shallowness is there nonetheless. Kids and "dudebros" don't notice it, of course. So they get away with it easily. And it wasn't a problem when narrative in their games was more cartoony than "realistic", which was the case with PS2 era of games. It was actually awesome because the cartoony feel of the games and fun gameplay was the main focus. Story was there to provide you with progression and they were well meshed together. And Vice City and San Andreas had interesting stories. Maybe because they were set in 80's and 90's instead of modern day which gave them a lot more creative freedom.

But I could not take GTA IV seriously at all, and I could not take GTA V very seriously either. Don't even get me started on Max Payne 3. It's a pathetically written game that tries too hard and fails with spectacular ease. Older Rockstar titles were better because they didn't try to be as serious as GTA IV and beyond. It was just mindless fun with interesting cartoony characters that didn't make any sense. But you can't apply the same writing style and attempt to make a serious story that is only serious sometimes. It just doesn't work. The games are still a lot of fun if you can get past the juvenile writing and inconsistent tone that stems from it.

Casual Shinji said it well. Satire requires subtlety. There's none of that in Rockstar's games since GTA IV. Every attempt sticks out like a sore thumb. The narrative is trying to be serious and grounded in reality in a world that just isn't. How am I supposed to take them seriously when their radio commercials and some characters are so over the top they take you out of the world and experience imediately? It's immersion breaking on an unprecedented level.
 

FirstNameLastName

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Casual Shinji said:
llsaidknockyouout said:
It's not sure whether it wants to be South Park or Scarface.
This is 5's problem in a nutshell. It wants to be realistic in its portrayal of the underworld and law enforcement, but simutaneously wants to flat-out laugh at everything in the most juvenile way possible, by literally resorting to name-calling. This is why I'd have a hard time calling GTA5 satire. Satire actually requires some subtlety. GTA5 simple takes an existing brand or institution, twists the name into something stupid, and then points and laughs.
Agreed. This is something I used to find funny when I was a teenager, but, and not to sound like a snob here, I prefer humor more sophisticated than simply putting the number 69 everywhere, or changing company names into something that gives off a vague, directionless sense of crudeness to it.
I also don't know if this is just the nostalgia glasses talking or whether it has always been like this and I was just too young to notice, but most of the political/social commentary feels really forced and poorly handled. I've noticed that a lot of it boils down to some parody company with a rude name practically turning to the camera and saying "the company/political figure I represent is stupid, now let me list of a bunch of observations we could have turned into jokes if we could be bothered".

If there's an advertisement for a bank, the ad itself with flat out say they intend to trick you into taking out a loan you can't repay back, or some other shady practice.
If there's an ad for cigarettes they'll blatantly tell you how addictive and unhealthy they are, despite it being against the company's best interests.
If there's a political ad for some thinly disguised real world figure/stereotype they'll blatantly list off the various flaws of their ideas with little attempt to disguise it as anything a political figure would ever say.
If there's an ad for soft drink they'll make sure to tell you about all the teeth you'll lose by drinking it for no other reason than to deliver this observation.

There are a few jokes I've noticed that I feel absolutely sum up their overall style of comedy, such as the following. There's a rather obvious parody of Call of Duty in the game, and they make a joke about how these games are churned out so quickly. Okay, sure, that seems like a nice basis for a joke. You've got an observation to poke fun at (Call of Duty games get released at an excessive pace) and now you just need to find a funny way to deliver this observation. Do you want to know what clever way they came up with?
On the in-game website for Righteous Slaughter 7 they blatantly point this out by saying:
"A first person shooter like no other (Except for Righteous Slaughter 6 which was released 3 months ago"
They couldn't be bothered coming up with a joke for this observation, so they just threw the observation at us instead. So much of the comedy is similar to this; it feels like a world of self-depreciating stereotypes, but rather than using self-depreciation as a style of humor they seem to just use it because it's a lazy way to deliver observations about society. But at least this type of comedy is better than the kind where everything has nothing more than a veneer of crudeness and sexuality to it for no reason other, well ...

Now, I enjoyed the game, but it's sense of humor has really lost me along the way.
 

Bob_McMillan

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Ezekiel said:
Bob_McMillan said:
When I played Max Payne 3, and experienced how fun the gunplay could be, I was pretty excited to play. Then again with the Rockstar auto aim gameplay...
Can be turned off. You've already been told in the RDR thread. People will find anything to complain about.
I'd sure like to see someone survive more than 30 seconds in GTA Online without auto aim.
 

The White Hunter

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GTA V has interesting characters and a gorgeous and vast world.

It's still has bad controls, and the online play on PC is a janky mess.
 

llsaidknockyouout

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GTA V, despite the gorgeous graphics, large overworld, lots of content and stellar mo-cap acting, is still just an upgraded version of the GTA formula.

It's the same formula. Drive to point A. Cutscene. Drive to point B. Cutscene. Shoot people. Drive to point C. It's wearing thin. There's only so much you can do with a game so long as it follows the same formula.
 

kilenem

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I Like Wise Crack's Break Down of the game [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E85feLp-gx8[/youtube]

The game pokes a lot of fun at the gamer. Micheal's son Jimmy is this white kid who tries to be Black but there's a lot White kids who buy GTA5 to get the "authentic" Black experience playing as Franklin. Even though Fraklin and Lamar are suppose to be caricatures of Black people, their still done better then many Black people in Most Video game. Freakin Pokemon Black and White had the Black Gym leader looking like Mrs. Butter's worth. Not surprising Nintendo of America removed her Apron for the American release. When Censorship works out for the better.
 

Something Amyss

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Casual Shinji said:
llsaidknockyouout said:
It's not sure whether it wants to be South Park or Scarface.
This is 5's problem in a nutshell. It wants to be realistic in its portrayal of the underworld and law enforcement, but simutaneously wants to flat-out laugh at everything in the most juvenile way possible, by literally resorting to name-calling. This is why I'd have a hard time calling GTA5 satire. Satire actually requires some subtlety. GTA5 simple takes an existing brand or institution, twists the name into something stupid, and then points and laughs.
Actually, there's no requirement for satire to be funny, subtle, or even good. Satire can be done with nothing but naked contempt, exaggerating someone's flaws to show how much you despise them. And honestly, if you told me that was GTA's intended goal, I would probably believe you. I do think Dan Houser is trying to be funny, but he's just saying LOOK LOOK AT HOW MUCH PEOPLE SUCK and it's just...bleh.

I had a blast with GTA V, though. It's a shame my friends got bored because the content is so slim unless you like deathmatches or adversary mode. There was so much world, but it seems like they forgot to do anything with most of it. SP has collectibles, which are often the only thing in an area, and MP lets you use areas for deathmatches and the like. But there's not enough actual game to justify the map.
 

sXeth

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It feels like they have gotten very unfocused or ludicrously broad with what they want to do in the game.

Story-wise, you have the odd contrast between Michael and Franklin making up the relatively anchored story. Then Trevor is just thrown in presumably to appeal to the LOLRANDOM, meme-soaked audience. It even leaks into gameplay. Michael and Franklin's super powers reflect exceptional, but not completely implausible skill. Trevor's turns him into a near bulletproof super person.

The gameplay itself is relatively average to mediocre. The missions mostly regurgitate cover-based shootouts ad nauseum. Though a stealth system for both foot and driving is introduced, its basic at its best moments, and useless garbage most of the time. Sandbox activities are ruthlessly slashed out of the singleplayer to be stuck in Online, leaving behind a post-game real estate management that isn't even really functional because avenues to make cash don't exist.

Mayhem and chaos, previously the go-to freeform play in the series, are ruthlessly punished by near omniscient police pursuit, and combat against them is largely impossible since only mission battle arenas have the required cover points for the games systems to remotely function. Out of cover is just instant death to sharpshooter AI with the games hit scan weapons. You can Walking Simulator it and admire the scenery (or sit watching the TV, assuming their "humor" tickles you), but that feels far off the way the game is presented.

Online picks up the sandbox activities significantly, but the design is questionable at best. Lobby systems for jobs are a mess. The servers often can't seem to connect you and your friends smoothly at all. Heists (two years later when they finally came out) are an awful design that forces you to restart completely if the horrible matchmaking and server connections happen to result in someone leaving, instead of pausing to find a substitute or have your friend reconnect.
 

llsaidknockyouout

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Yes, it used to be fun to provoke the police until they responded, and then have a heated chase. Now, it's sort of just, hair-trigger them by accident, dodge aggressive cops, kill them to get them out of your way, and then hide by some hill until they vanihs.

GTA Online is one of the worst online experiences I've had. Like you said, it takes like 15 minutes just to connect to a lobby for one small mission, and the experience can go sour for a stupid reason.

I will defend Trevor, though, as he's the character that GTA has needed for a while. Most protagonists tended to be within the same contradictory mold: a stable person who tries as much as possible to not cause too much trouble in the story, but is meant to be completely the opposite in the single player.