76th Anniversary of Hiroshima Bombing

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Dirty Hipsters

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Anti-tank rifles.
Anti-materiel rifles still exist, we just don't use them against tanks anymore. Still used against light armored vehicles, troop transports, barricades, etc.
 

crimson5pheonix

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Anti-materiel rifles still exist, we just don't use them against tanks anymore. Still used against light armored vehicles, troop transports, barricades, etc.
That's the thing. Anti-material rifles aren't anti-tank rifles, and they share few parts and design concepts from old anti-tank rifles.
 

crimson5pheonix

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Didn't most anti-tank rifles just get mounted on rotating chairs and become anti-air guns?
Maybe at some point, but they have definitely gone the way of the dodo by now. Even their cartridges aren't in use. When was the last time you heard about .55 Boys?
 

Dirty Hipsters

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That's the thing. Anti-material rifles aren't anti-tank rifles, and they share few parts and design concepts from old anti-tank rifles.
Anti-tank rifles and anti-materiel rifles are the same thing. Anti-tank rifles are just anti-materiel rifles that were being used to shoot at a tank.

It's sort of like the distinction between a sniper rifle and a hunting rifle. A hunting rifle and a sniper rifle are the same thing, a sniper rifle is just an accurized rifle that is being used to shoot at people. If you take a hunting rifle and shoot it at people it is a sniper rifle. If you use an anti-materiel rifle to shoot at a tank it's an anti-tank rifle.
 

crimson5pheonix

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Anti-tank rifles and anti-materiel rifles are the same thing. Anti-tank rifles are just anti-materiel rifles that were being used to shoot at a tank.

It's sort of like the distinction between a sniper rifle and a hunting rifle. A hunting rifle and a sniper rifle are the same thing, a sniper rifle is just an accurized rifle that is being used to shoot at people. If you take a hunting rifle and shoot it at people it is a sniper rifle. If you use an anti-materiel rifle to shoot at a tank it's an anti-tank rifle.
Well no, because anti-material rifles aren't effective against tanks in the way anti-tank rifles are. And the whole concept of a man-portable rifle capable of defeating tank armor died soon after WW2 because you really just can't do that. .50 BMG is the standard anti-material round, but it was never used against tanks and has basically never been effective against tanks. It's an entirely different design concept and just saying "anti-material is anti-tank" is very reductionist and not accurate. An anti-tank rifle is a very very specific tool that existed basically just for the 2 world wars and was quickly disposed of as a concept.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Well no, because anti-material rifles aren't effective against tanks in the way anti-tank rifles are. And the whole concept of a man-portable rifle capable of defeating tank armor died soon after WW2 because you really just can't do that. .50 BMG is the standard anti-material round, but it was never used against tanks and has basically never been effective against tanks. It's an entirely different design concept and just saying "anti-material is anti-tank" is very reductionist and not accurate. An anti-tank rifle is a very very specific tool that existed basically just for the 2 world wars and was quickly disposed of as a concept.
The concept is still the same, a rifle that shoots through armor and barriers. Just because it's not shooting at a specific target doesn't mean it's a different concept or design.

Conceptually an anti-materiel rifle shooting through an armored humvee or troop transport is doing the same thing that an anti-tank rifle was doing during WW1.

Anti-tank rifles also weren't used exclusively for shooting at tanks, they were used generally as anti-materiel rifles with a focus on being able to also disable tanks (with mixed success). They've moved away from their role in disabling tanks because better weapons have been invented for that role, but they still exist and are still being used.
 

crimson5pheonix

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The concept is still the same, a rifle that shoots through armor and barriers. Just because it's not shooting at a specific target doesn't mean it's a different concept or design.

Conceptually an anti-materiel rifle shooting through an armored humvee or troop transport is doing the same thing that an anti-tank rifle was doing during WW1.

Anti-tank rifles also weren't used exclusively for shooting at tanks, they were used generally as anti-materiel rifles with a focus on being able to also disable tanks (with mixed success). They've moved away from their role in disabling tanks because better weapons have been invented for that role, but they still exist and are still being used.
They aren't the same and name one anti-tank round still in active use.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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They aren't the same and name one anti-tank round still in active use.
The caliber doesn't matter. Conceptually an anti-tank rifle is just a large man-portable rifle that fires a big bullet going very quickly with an explosive bullet meant to go through light armor. That concept still exists today as an anti-materiel rifle.
 

crimson5pheonix

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The caliber doesn't matter. Conceptually an anti-tank rifle is just a large man-portable rifle that fires a big bullet going very quickly with an explosive bullet meant to go through light armor. That concept still exists today as an anti-materiel rifle.
You're right, caliber doesn't necessarily matter. But there were rounds designed to be anti-tank rounds, and a lot of them became obsolete within 2 years of introduction. The only anti-tank round I can think of still in use is 14.5x115mm and that's because Russia will never replace anything they can find a use for. So now said round is an anti-material round because if you tried using it for it's original intended role, you might as well use your sidearm pistol, it'll be equally as effective.

You can say that anti-tank rifles are just very specialized anti-material rifles but that's the point, it's specialized and unique, and that particular role is dead, so dedicated anti-tank guns don't exist anymore outside of museums.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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You're right, caliber doesn't necessarily matter. But there were rounds designed to be anti-tank rounds, and a lot of them became obsolete within 2 years of introduction. The only anti-tank round I can think of still in use is 14.5x115mm and that's because Russia will never replace anything they can find a use for. So now said round is an anti-material round because if you tried using it for it's original intended role, you might as well use your sidearm pistol, it'll be equally as effective.

You can say that anti-tank rifles are just very specialized anti-material rifles but that's the point, it's specialized and unique, and that particular role is dead, so dedicated anti-tank guns don't exist anymore outside of museums.
The question was

How many weapons has humanity invented that don't still exist in one form or another?
To which you replied
Anti-tank rifles.
The key being "in one form or another."

Anti-tank rifles just changed to being anti-materiel rifles. That's the point.
 

crimson5pheonix

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The question was



To which you replied


The key being "in one form or another."

Anti-tank rifles just changed to being anti-materiel rifles. That's the point.
They didn't though, apart from one very specific example (from Russia, the same country that's been using the same basic rocket setup for 60 years, they don't count). But otherwise, anti-tank cartridges went the way of the dodo along with the rifles that fired them, because their entire concept is outmoded. You don't see .55 Boys, 13.2 mm TuF, 7.92x94 mm Patronen, 7.92x107 mm DS, so on. You do see other rounds that were designed for an anti-material role still in use though, like .50 BMG, because it's still useful. It's technically still useful in it's original role too, as an anti-aircraft round. But anti-tank rifles? Gone, dust, never to be seen again.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Why is everyone a weapon fetishist?
Societies were built through war and conquest, and the ones that weren't no longer exist.

Also, holding the power of life and death in your hands makes some people's dicks hard.

Finally, some weapons have both cultural and aesthetic value that makes them interesting and cool.