A (hopefully) mature discussion: Is it really okay to hate smokers?

Recommended Videos

Kpt._Rob

Travelling Mushishi
Apr 22, 2009
2,417
0
0
This is intended as a mature discussion of how smokers are treated. Thanks ahead of time to those who come with an open mind, and carefully chosen words. Those who can voice their opinions in such a way as to avoid rudeness are greatly appreciated. Also, this is a pretty long opening post, my sincere thanks to those who take the time to read it, and for those who won't I've provided a TLDR at the end.

At even the lowest of doses it is a dream potentiator, at moderate doses a stimulant, at higher doses the line between shamanic intoxicant and poison are tested. The use of the tobacco plant dates back to around 3000 BC amongst the native peoples of North and South America. Today those who choose to commune with the tobacco plant generally do so in the form of cigarettes. It is also worth noting that smokers are one of the few groups of people who, it would seem, it is perfectly acceptable to hate for no reason apart from their habit. But is that right?

As a kid, and all the way up until I got into college, I think it would be fair to say that I had an unmitigated hatred of smokers, though I probably would not have admitted to myself even that that's what it was. I gave smokers who I didn't even know dirty looks, in passing them I would make derogatory remarks to my friends (often loud enough so that the smoker could hear), and though I never did that fake cough thing people do to alert smokers to how hated they are, I always secretly approved of those who did.

I was taught to have this hatred by parents, guidance councilors, and other role models; though they never told me to hate smokers, it seems to me now from my years of people watching that the hatred of smokers is one of the inevitable repercussions of the way in which we try to prevent people from smoking. I don't know how many hours I spent in classes where people did nothing but inform me repeatedly of the same information about the horrors of smoking. It is one of the few areas in which the American school system did not fail to provide a wealth of information in a form which would cause it never to be forgotten. And it is only now that I can look back with enough understanding to see that the way in which I was "taught" about tobacco is not all that different from the way in which children in extremist religious schools are "taught" about those of other faiths.

I am not now a regular smoker, though I do smoke on occasion, and the story of how I came to start smoking is not all that interesting, suffice it to say that I started hanging out with people who smoked and learned to open my mind a bit. Having this dual perspective has given me cause to think about the way that we, as a society, treat people who smoke.

So let me pose a question: How many groups of people can you think of who it is societally acceptable to describe as "disgusting?" Child molesters? Rapists? Serial killers?

Smokers?


If you think I am wrong, feel free to visit one of the many threads about smoking that have been hosted right here on the Escapist, in which people openly voice their opinions of how disgusting smoking is. No one calls them on it, or says anything. It seems perfectly normal. But should it?

Let me qualify myself a little bit here before I go on, I am not trying to advocate smoking. There are genuine health problems related to smoking with which people should be concerned. I do think that restaurants and other public buildings should be smoke free inside. I understand that for many people the smell is unpleasant (though I would be very interested in research related to whether this hatred of the smell is something we are born with, or something we are trained to have), though personally I love the smell. There are very true negative repercussions to the use, and especially the abuse of the tobacco plant.

I do believe the good people of The Escapist are intelligent enough to listen with an open mind, so let me again pose a question to those who don't smoke, why do you think people choose to smoke? Does it not perplex you? Because I remember back before I smoked how strange it seemed to me that anyone would smoke. In all my years of sitting through classes about tobacco, not once did anyone mention any of the actual reasons people smoke. I'm not saying that they should, children don't necessarily need to know that the affects of nicotine on the human brain are pleasant and stimulating for the smoker. But, shouldn't adults know that nicotine, like any drug, feels good?

How many of you, like I once did, had no better explanation for why people would start smoking than "because they think it'll make them cool"? Does this explanation not lack at least a little bit of credibility once you think about it? My fellow smokers could no doubt tell countless stories about the nasty looks they've been given by people who don't even know them, the rude commentary from people not involved in their lives, and the words that have been used to describe their habits. People don't smoke because it's cool, the claim that smoking is cool is demonstrably false if you observe how smokers are treated. People smoke for the same reason that people drink coffee or energy drinks, because it helps them get through the day. Which of us can say that we've never needed help getting through the day?

I'm not asking that you try smoking, for many of us it would be better to never touch a tobacco product. What I do ask, is that we think about the way that we treat people who smoke. What I ask is that we choose our words wisely, so that even when abstaining from the use, we do not invalidate and dehumanize those who do choose to partake. Is it so much to ask that we, as a society, treat smokers like they were people too?

And finally, for those who could not do me the kindness of reading what has taken me a couple of hours in the early morning to type...

TLDR: How should we treat people who smoke? For those who don't smoke, how do you treat people who smoke, and why? For those who do smoke, perhaps you would like to share stories about how people treat you because of your smoking?
 

Darth IB

New member
Apr 7, 2010
238
0
0
The main (rational) reason why smokers are "ok" to hate would be that their habit is potentially harmful to everyone in their vicinity.

I personally prefer to dislike the smoke rather than the smoking or the smokers, and hate none of them. I have many friends who smoke, but they are considerate and don't breath it right into my face, so we have no problem.
 

Flishiz

New member
Feb 11, 2009
882
0
0
Ah fuck me, I knew an ambiguity like this would come up...

I'll admit I'm a cigar man. I enjoy cigars, but only if they're of extremely high quality (like most other things in life or I'll have wasted good money that the stock market would have preferred instead). However, I only smoke them when I have something grand to celebrate, like achieving a milestone on one of my personal projects, or just generally a successful week.

However, my trouble with smoking is when the object in question has the white and yellow bits on the outside. Yes, cigarettes. I always feel hypocritical whenever I have the internal mental sneer at anyone smoking a cigarette, even when I have a cigar in my car's glove compartment. Maybe I'm just hard-wired to hate an addictive use of any product of poor quality, whether it be cigarettes, cheap booze, or "The Expendables" (my particular favorite generic Hollywood punching bag). Yet, there's something even further about cigarettes than any of the others.

Maybe it's the smell. Ok anyone who's ever traversed a major city and seen the multicoated bearded guy drinking from a brown paper bag sometimes whiffs an air faintly of urine may disagree, but I think it all stems from the fact that cigarettes, while being damaging to a degree where every child in the US is gleefully informed (outside of South Carolina, of course) of the dangers of smoking, just plain smell bad. Perhaps that's the issue: An addictive substance that causes bodily harm while also creating an unattractive and repulsive aroma around the user simply creates a "subhuman" kind of classification. I don't like thinking that way, but it's often the first thought that jumps to mind.
 

Best of the 3

10001110101
Oct 9, 2010
7,083
0
41
Hating someone who smokes is like hating someone because they're fat (for me, that's how I see it). You can hate the person, you can hate being fat, but you shouldn't hate a person for being fat. That's the same view I have of smokers. You shouldn't hate a person just cause they smoke.

That said, if a smoker tried to force you to smoke too, or force his/her opinions about smoking onto you, especially if you're a non smoker, then you have a reason to hate that person for smoking. I personally don't share any different views to people I know that smoke to people I know that don't. That said, I also knew some people that would act differently because they smoked (from a young age). That they were better more "cool" and stuff. Those guys acted like tossers and everyone hated them but each other. That wasn't because they smoked, just the way they acted because they smoked.
 

Thaluikhain

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 16, 2010
19,538
4,128
118
Hatred is a strong word, but it's quite understandable.

Smokers are putting an immense burden on the health system, which is both very important and under pressure as it is.

Secondly, it's not fun being in a public place with smokers. Putting aside the lingering, unpleasant smell, they are spreading carcinogenic and otherwise toxic chemicals which people can't help but breathe in. That is not going to make them terribly popular.
 

Booze Zombie

New member
Dec 8, 2007
7,416
0
0
I don't hate someone because they smoke; I fear for my health when they are smoking and avoid them whilst they are doing so.
That's how I go about it, anyway.
 

SwimmingRock

New member
Nov 11, 2009
1,177
0
0
I would say it is definitely not okay to hate smokers. Nor, as far as I'm concerned, anybody who uses any kinds of stimulant, depressant, narcotic, anesthetic or hallucinogen unless there is a secondary reason as a logical result. Which is to say that it's unacceptable to hate someone just because they drink, but entirely reasonable if they drink and drive; more so if they've hurt/killed anybody as a result.

Similarly, smoking is something which, as Darth IB pointed out, is potentially harmful to others, but this only really qualifies to being stuck in the same room/area with a smoker. If someone's smoking outside or in their own house, I don't think it's anybody elses damn business, to be perfectly honest.

In regards to the part in your OP where you discuss why people smoke: most of my smoking friends do it because they need it to relieve stress. I have smoked casually (I go through about half a pack a year) and understand this appeal, but consider myself fortunate to so rarely experience stress that there's no reason for me to get addicted.

As for your TLDR questions:
- We should treat them like we should treat all people: with kindness, compassion, understanding and always as equals.
- I view smokers and non-smokers alike as people with habits that will harm themselves and possibly those around them, but it's the individuals responsibility to indulge relatively safely.
 

zhoominator

New member
Jan 30, 2010
399
0
0
Darth IB said:
The main (rational) reason why smokers are "ok" to hate would be that their habit is potentially harmful to everyone in their vicinity.

I personally prefer to dislike the smoke rather than the smoking or the smokers, and hate none of them. I have many friends who smoke, but they are considerate and don't breath it right into my face, so we have no problem.
I go with this. I hate smoke but I don't mind the people who do it, certainly if they're understanding of why (having been in a fire makes me really anxious when I smell smoke of any kind, and the same if i smell gas from a gas cooker). I also just don't like how people smell when they've been smoking.

I don't dislike smokers but on the other hand I don't see why it's unfair for me to not go out with a girl because she smokes (which many people have said to me). My reasoning would be "Well would you go out with a woman with a BO problem?".
 

Nemu

In my hand I hold a key...
Oct 14, 2009
1,278
0
0
I don't hate smokers, I hate the smoking.

Well, no, not entirely true, I hate the people who feel they need to smoke around me when I'm trying to eat. I'm staunchly against smoking--it's lethal, it smells, it's unattractive. I playfully rag on folks who smoke, mostly because I care about them and would rather not have to give them a "Aw shit, sorry for your lung cancer, brah" card (my sister would get the same card). It's a stinky, filthy, deadly "habit". *shrug*


But I will punch a jerk who smokes near me while I'm eating.

Or anyone who puts their stanky, smoke-smelling jacket on mine.
 

spartan1077

New member
Aug 24, 2010
3,222
0
0
Kpt._Rob said:
TLDR: How should we treat people who smoke? For those who don't smoke, how do you treat people who smoke, and why?
Personally, I don't smoke. My brother has asthma and both my parents quit smoking because of it. Once my Grandma developed lung cancer, both my grandma and my grandfather quit smoking. So I don't have many smokers in my family. Although, my dad's mother smokes like a chimney and I feel sick when I go there. I treat people who smoke like normal people, because I know it's an addicting thing. But, I hate smokers who are my age or a little older. Why? Because it was their choice to start and it's their choice to do it every day. They smell like sh*t, and the smokers are the ones that skip school, do other drugs, and ruin high-school for me. That's why I hate them.
 

darth.pixie

New member
Jan 20, 2011
1,449
0
0
I started smoking when I was 15, not because it felt cool but because it was one of the most stressful periods of my life. I told my mother that I smoked when I was 16 and she understood and even now, she buys me cigarettes (she also smokes).

I haven't encountered many situations in which my smoking made people scrunch up their noses and look away though I did get the "Oh my god, you smoke?! Don't you know what happens to your lungs-" etc etc from high school mates which amused me at the time. Usually the only ones who found it necessary to berrate me were those of my age or younger.

Unlike the American school system, we weren't pestered with it. We did get the whole monologue on the downsides of smoking, but all the professors I knew smoked and while on a school trip, we took a smoking break together.
We bribed the school doorman with cigarettes so that he'd open the door for us when we skipped.There were more cigarette butts on the ground at school than leaves.

It seemed like a part of life and a part of society. I never asked anyone to smoke but I always offer a cig when I get one for myself and almost everyone says yes. Those who do not take them aren't usually offended or upset. And to those that can't stand smokers, I generally do them curtesy of not smoking around them. It doesn't have to be a battle of opinions.
 

Jaqen Hghar

New member
Feb 11, 2009
630
0
0
SwimmingRock said:
In regards to the part in your OP where you discuss why people smoke: most of my smoking friends do it because they need it to relieve stress. I have smoked casually (I go through about half a pack a year) and understand this appeal, but consider myself fortunate to so rarely experience stress that there's no reason for me to get addicted.
Just putting this out here: Smoking does not relieve stress at all. The only stress it relieves are the stress you feel when you are craving a cigarette because you are addicted to it.
One of the sources here. [http://www.instah.com/quit-smoking/does-smoking-relieve-stress/]

As for hating smokers... I don't hate the person, I hate the habit. The fact that something that has no positive function at all, but several bad ones, are still being sold is baffling to me. How people still start to smoke is also beyond my comprehension. But hating the smokers themselves are silly and futile. If said smoker does his best to smoke in my face, knowing that I don't like that, then you can start talking bad feelings.
 
Jan 23, 2010
316
0
0
I don't hate smokers. I hate the smoke since it makes me nauseus and I have allergies :/

I do however heavily dislike inconsiderate smokers, people who smoke in public places and throw cigarette butts on the pavement etc. If they keep that shit to themselves then I don't care. Let them inhale smoke as much as they want.
 

Catchy Slogan

New member
Jun 17, 2009
1,931
0
0
I don't smoke, and as I grew up around my mother smoking I started to dislike it, but I have nothing against people who do smoke. I treat them the same as everyone else.
 

Leg End

Romans 12:18
Oct 24, 2010
2,948
58
53
Country
United States
Kpt._Rob said:
So let me pose a question: How many groups of people can you think of who it is societally acceptable to describe as "disgusting?" Pedophiles?
*snip*
Um... as a non-offending one(the majority), I kind of take offense to that OP. Especially since you lump us in with Serial Killers and Rapists. Can you please change that? You don't have to, but it would be nice. Preferably to Child Molesters.(Pedophile and Child Molester are not interchangeable) EDIT: Thank you, OP.

OT: As kindly as you would treat anyone else. I treat them with respect, though I ask them to not smoke around me as it gives me a headache. (Responding to the TL;DR, but I read the whole thing)
 

2xDouble

New member
Mar 15, 2010
2,310
0
0
I don't hate smokers. I love smokers. That's why I want to make smoking as uncomfortable for them as possible so quitting doesn't seem so bad by comparison. Anything else would be enabling.
 

putowtin

I'd like to purchase an alcohol!
Jul 7, 2010
3,452
0
0
Hate Hitler, don't hate someone who has an addiction, one that is (from previous personal experience) difficult to give up. Understand that, even though the goverments of the world advertise the need for their citizens to give up smoking, the loss of tax money would make the current British and American debt look like pence. Appreciate that we all have the right to choose how we live our lives and if that includes playing video games, smoking tobacco, drinking alcohol, praising various gods and eatting fatty foods that is our choice.
 

Karilas

New member
Jan 6, 2010
108
0
0
Best of the 3 said:
Hating someone who smokes is like hating someone because they're fat (for me, that's how I see it). You can hate the person, you can hate being fat, but you shouldn't hate a person for being fat. That's the same view I have of smokers. You shouldn't hate a person just cause they smoke.

That said, if a smoker tried to force you to smoke too, or force his/her opinions about smoking onto you, especially if you're a non smoker, then you have a reason to hate that person for smoking. I personally don't share any different views to people I know that smoke to people I know that don't. That said, I also knew some people that would act differently because they smoked (from a young age). That they were better more "cool" and stuff. Those guys acted like tossers and everyone hated them but each other. That wasn't because they smoked, just the way they acted because they smoked.
I have to slightly disagree with you, if someone tries to push their smoking on you, it's still not the smoking you should hate them for, it's their general dickitude.

As for the OP, you raise a very valid point that has bugged me for years now. South Park did an excellent job of covering the topic with that obese fuck Rob Reiner, as well as the episode about tolerance where the kids all spend a whole day learning how they should be tolerant of everyone, immediately following which all the adults seriously lay into a bloke outside for lighting up. Satire at it's finest.

Another thing about the generally accepted treatment of smokers that oins me severely, is that smokers tend to pay more tax than anyone else in the same bracket, but are still viewed as a cancerous drain on the NHS in the UK. Maybe if the government used a few of those tax pennies to improve NHS services people would see things differently.