a thought i had about the world

[shootthebandit]

i was thinking about money, capitalism etc (i really should stop listening to john lennon)

and it got me thinking, what would happen if (over a long period of time) we slowly phased all the cities and all the buisnesses etc and instead exchanged it for a simple agricultural life with no tax, no financial worries etc. Of course we wouldnt have any modern luxuries but there would be so much more simple pleasures and no capitalist machine controlling everyone

obviously this is just a thought but its an interesting one, do you think this simpler way of life would be better or does the capitalist machine (arguably not a bad thing) have such a big hold on us?

 

[GiantSpiderGoat]

Sure, in theory it's a nice idea, but how does one control a landmass like that? Without some form of capitalism in place wealth distribution and economic freedom is almost impossible.

Through force. I support anarchy and random pillaging of villages.

 

[Aurgelmir]

no capitalist machine controlling everyone

Instead you would be controlled by the mercy of nature.. I think you would find that life today is not any better or worse than it was 1000 years ago, only different.

 

[Fire Daemon]

obviously this is just a thought but its an interesting one, do you think this simpler way of life would be better or does the capitalist machine (arguably not a bad thing) have such a big hold on us?

It's not that interesting. For a long time society was a simple agricultural one, you only have to look at history to see how it'll turn out and what it was like. Eventually someone will come along with his buddies who know how to use a pointy stick and you'll give him and his point stick weilding friends some of your corn so you don't get stabed by the pointy stick. He'll probably also bring his god of corn for you to worship and tell you what to do. Things wont be so bad though, if he puts the corn to good use and builds a bath house out of corn or something. Eventually though, corn will start to get boring and someone will make pots, then they can sell these pots for keeping corn and hey what do you know soon enough we are back to where we started from.

Anyway, a purely agricultural society would suck. You'll be giving up medicines, education, a large chunck of technology, infrastructure, media and many, many other things I can't think of right now. Also, what do you know about farming? It isn't easy stuff, looking at after a farm is hard work and requires knowledge handed down through the generations. I would imagine that a lot of you will starve to death if society became purely agricultural. Doesn't sound relaxed to me

But society wont ever become purely agricultural. You need a variety of jobs in a society. Blacksmiths are needed by farms for their tools and Blacksmiths needs farms for food. A lot of jobs work together and are needed by one another.

 

[Dublin Solo]

Even if the humans in society could do this, which they can't because we're basically a bunch of blood-thirsty hunters and maniacs, that would "work" only for those who lived in places where resources existed (fertile lands, drinkable water, etc.)

Those living in harsher lands would likely have a real bad time before dying.

 

[Danzaivar]

Would we be getting rid of government too? If you don't, they're gonna want a tithe of your crops. If you do, you're gonna have to worry about bandits and the like.

Basically you're trading "Can I afford to buy this junk item" for "Will this harvest be enough to survive the Winter". You're always gonna be worrying about crap, may as well make it mundane stuff rather than survival stuff.

Then again maybe I'm just a bit biased after playing Red Dead: Redemption all week listening to John Marston talk about how that life isn't as romantic as stories make it seem. Shucks.

 

[sageoftruth]

One thing we need to consider however is communalism. I've never experience this myself because I've never lived in a small village, but friends of mine have explained that in a small village where everyone knows each other, there is a sense of responsibility to everyone in the village. People contribute without asking for anything in return, just like a big family. The huge downside to this lifestyle would simply be the huge drop in health-related technology. Get ready to die from the common cold once again.

 

[GiantSpiderGoat]

Sure, in theory it's a nice idea, but how does one control a landmass like that? Without some form of capitalism in place wealth distribution and economic freedom is almost impossible.

Through force. I support anarchy and random pillaging of villages.

Fair enough, but the OP seems to want a more serene way of life through simplicity, which isn't going to happen. It would pretty much be 'Steal their shit, burn their houses and rape their women!'

Hail and Kill (part of what you said reminds me of a manowar song)

 

[Lyx]

Others already pointed out pitfalls. IMO for the current state of human culture, something "in-between" would probably be optimal. Basically turning time back 100 years, but keeping knowledge about some technology - in principle just scaling back population and production.

Unfortunatelly, thats not gonna happen unless the basic parameters are changed globally, and that is because if a single country would do it alone, it would become a nice little target for everyone else.

Being nice isn't enough - you also need to be able to defend yourself from not-so-nice people.

 

[L4hlborg]

Others already pointed out pitfalls. IMO for the current state of human culture, something "in-between" would probably be optimal. Basically turning time back 100 years, but keeping knowledge about some technology - in principle just scaling back population and production.

Scaling back population in a sense that doesn't involve gassing people to death (most people find this morally questionable) is pretty impossible. Getting rid of a few billion people isn't very easy.

Maybe, instead of dreaming a world achievable only by mass murder, we should look forward. As all totally realistic scifi has pointed out, we need to unite our species into one nation, build space ships and and settle around places and meet cool aliens and shit. I'm not exactly a very good salesman, but you get the point.

 

[Jonluw]

I don't think a simple agricultural life is effective enough to support a population of 6 billion humans. Besides; a simple agricultural life will naturally progress into an industrial society.

And another besides: Simple agricultural lives aren't that comfortable. Humans weren't designed for that life. Ideally, we should live nomadic/tribal lives (Anders C. Krogh, a person who lived with native Amazon indians, has stated that they without doubt live the most fullfilling lives possible), like we did some 50,000 years ago, but that form of living can support even fewer people, which means: If you want all humans to live like nature intended to, you will first have to get rid of most humans.

And even then, we will probably just progress into an industrial society eventually.

I don't see why we should move backwards in our development to fix the problems in present day society. Instead we should strive to move forward towards a society where we have acces to hyper-modern technology, but still live tranquil and fulfilling lives.

Of course, OP, if you wanted to; you could just become amish...

 

[Kenko]

Others already pointed out pitfalls. IMO for the current state of human culture, something "in-between" would probably be optimal. Basically turning time back 100 years, but keeping knowledge about some technology - in principle just scaling back population and production.

Scaling back population in a sense that doesn't involve gassing people to death (most people find this morally questionable) is pretty impossible. Getting rid of a few billion people isn't very easy.

Maybe, instead of dreaming a world achievable only by mass murder, we should look forward. As all totally realistic scifi has pointed out, we need to unite our species into one nation, build space ships and and settle around places and meet cool aliens and shit. I'm not exactly a very good salesman, but you get the point.

It'll likely take many millenia more before that happens. Because honestly, who will lead this nation? There are too many differencies for this too happen any time soon. Some people even prefer their own culture, nation and way of living to be independet of others. So tbh, it'll never happen.

As for capitalism, its only bad when its unregulated and governments have no control over it. It really turns into a corporate marshland where people dont own anything and are assfucked by corporations on a daily basis. See Amerika for example.

 

[Lyx]

Others already pointed out pitfalls. IMO for the current state of human culture, something "in-between" would probably be optimal. Basically turning time back 100 years, but keeping knowledge about some technology - in principle just scaling back population and production.

Scaling back population in a sense that doesn't involve gassing people to death (most people find this morally questionable) is pretty impossible. Getting rid of a few billion people isn't very easy.

Maybe, instead of dreaming a world achievable only by mass murder, we should look forward. As all totally realistic scifi has pointed out, we need to unite our species into one nation, build space ships and and settle around places and meet cool aliens and shit. I'm not exactly a very good salesman, but you get the point.

*spikes bubble*

That you have one specific wish does not automatically make wishes of others impossible.

And by the way: Scaling population back - if you give it 100-150 years - is easy. You could start with no longer conditioning people on all communication channels to become sexually obsessive. There's more that can be done purely on a cultural level. Then, there's the fact that people currently are paid benefits for making childs. Then theres the fact that to keep population steady, every pair needs to make TWO children. The list goes on. No, scaling back population isn't "impossible" - its not even "difficult", unless you're impatient and uncreative - or want to keep up a certain "way of life" and cultural dogma.

 

[Kenko]

Others already pointed out pitfalls. IMO for the current state of human culture, something "in-between" would probably be optimal. Basically turning time back 100 years, but keeping knowledge about some technology - in principle just scaling back population and production.

Scaling back population in a sense that doesn't involve gassing people to death (most people find this morally questionable) is pretty impossible. Getting rid of a few billion people isn't very easy.

Maybe, instead of dreaming a world achievable only by mass murder, we should look forward. As all totally realistic scifi has pointed out, we need to unite our species into one nation, build space ships and and settle around places and meet cool aliens and shit. I'm not exactly a very good salesman, but you get the point.

It'll likely take many millenia more before that happens. Because honestly, who will lead this nation?

leaders are the problem man
with no leaders there would be no one to tell us who to distrust or hate.

we'd have to meet people on our own and you know what happens when you do that ?
you find out almost everyone is actually alright.

btw im pretty sure i've seen this scenario on star trek multiple times...

Stop smokin yer frickin peacepipe hippie. You cant put two men in the same room without one trying to rule over the other. Star Trek is silly on every level and veeeeery naive. And anarchy is never the answer, wich is what happens without centralized leadership. I'd like to live in a world where all this hippie happyland shit actually works. But it wont ever work.

 

[Sronpop]

Ah its never gonna happen, fantasy rpgs are the closest we are going to get. Just buy oblivion and ignore the main quest.