A thought on 'imbalance'.

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Alex Sheppard

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Mar 23, 2010
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If you have played any game online I'm sure there is something other players will tell you it's wrong to use, because of imbalance or because they are just pricks, whatever.

But a question on my mind is; Should players omit using something placed into a multiplayer game because it has balance issues or for whatever reason? This of course, does not include use of glichting in games or any of that sort of cunduct.

The most populer case of this I believe would be the use of the M203 underbarrel grenade launcher in the Modern Warefare series, people who overuse this weapon are denounced as 'n00bs' and it could be entirely intentional that the weapon has been placed in the game to give new players a chance against everyone else.

Now I don't mean to say that all people who use such things as the M203 are not skilled, because while arguably it takes less accuracy to hit and kill someone, it still has tactical uses [e.g firing around corners or into high value rooms to ensure safety] and I have never been annoyed at anyone who is able to slaughter me through use of such tactics, but the more pressing issue is when a weapon is used 'improperly', and while this is probably more of a subjective view about what 'proper' use of insert weapon here is.

For example most people would agree a sniper rifle is intended to be used at long range, but as is apparent in the first MW game, through use of an ACOG scope, the sniper becomes less of a sniper and more of a CQC weapon, and I don't have any particuler problem with it because if someone has mastered the weapon in a way it isn't normally effective, than hoo-rah for them. This is however my opinion and I've seen many others who would denouce the use of the above tactic and say the user has no skill at the game and thus was granted an un-deserved victory.

To close my thought I will say that I understand why things like the M203 have been put in them game, and I want to see if other people think it is right to have a certain unwritten player code or a mutual agreement to avoid using a particuler weapon or tactic, while understanding that the game developers put it in the game and therefor must have a reason for it, in most cases at least.
 

JaymesFogarty

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I'd say that it isn't right to complain about being killed by a weapon included in the game, especially if you've got access to it as well. I wouldn't ever poke online from ten feet away with a pole, but people always seem to be complaining about it. It was fine when I was on. By the way, did you play MGS?
 

Alex Sheppard

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Mar 23, 2010
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JaymesFogarty said:
I'd say that it isn't right to complain about being killed by a weapon included in the game, especially if you've got access to it as well. I wouldn't ever poke online from ten feet away with a pole, but people always seem to be complaining about it. It was fine when I was on. By the way, did you play MGS?
Well, that is the standpoint of most abusers of the weapon, sometimes devs put something into a game and while it isn't ment to be used in one way, through exessive play, players find ways to gain an unfair advantage through use of the weapon. This isn't always a problem, but when this use has no feaseable counter, it creates imbalance, which creates a problem. And no, I only own an Xbox 360, and a Nintendo Wii, I have not played MGS.
 

Jazombie

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Dec 20, 2009
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I don't have a problem with the weapons in said game, I have a problem with the way people use them. Mostly. But then theres weapons like the pre-nerf mod '87s which there was obvious imbalance issues with. Ugh... the spaz has a ridiculous amount of range aswell, but it's easy to get over cause of the rate of fire^^

But if I myself feel a tactic or weapon *cough*commando, lightweight*cough* is unfair and imbalanced I won't use it and if completely misused I will pass some judgment :/ can't be helped.
 

Ironic Pirate

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I refer to it as being resourceful. I only use a gun if I like it regardless of effectiveness, but even after the tenth time I die in a row from a GL, I grit my teeth and get pissed at IW rather than someone being smart.
 

Radeonx

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While I agree that certain things in games *cough cough MW2 cough cough* aren't balanced or fair, since, unless you are a much lower level, have access to almost all of the same weapons, so complaining isn't valid when you choose not to use them.
Bad Company 2 did it great, however.
The game is so incredibly balanced; every gun has both advantages and disadvantages, and skill is required to do well.
 

Alex Sheppard

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Mar 23, 2010
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Jazombie said:
I don't have a problem with the weapons in said game, I have a problem with the way people use them. Mostly. But then theres weapons like the pre-nerf mod '87s which there was obvious imbalance issues with. Ugh... the spaz has a ridiculous amount of range aswell, but it's easy to get over cause of the rate of fire^^

But if I myself feel a tactic or weapon *cough*commando, lightweight*cough* is unfair and imbalanced I won't use it and if completely misused I will pass some judgment :/ can't be helped.
This is the kind of thing I am talking about, things like this can be deal-breakers for online games, players don't have fun having to use something because it is just plain better, players want to be able to play how they want and still have a chance, while still having some kind of challenge, this is the epitomy of online gaming, which I'm not convinced has been met...

So I think that online communities could vastly benefit by having some sort of code, possibly one that game devs could include in an online message board, and respectfully ask players to follow it, this is a radical concept of course...but I think it would work wonders.
 

godofallu

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Balance problems exist in every game, there just will never be a game with perfect balancing.

Clearly the OP likes to use danger close + Noob tubes. Good for him, I probably would hate to be in a game with him but w.e I play in a league that has rules against that.

Are people that use clearly overpowered guns D bags? Its kind of like glitches, a lot of people will argue that until the glitch is patched anyone can do them so feel free to use them till they are patched. Others will get mad when someone shoots them from below the map or uses danger close spams.
 

cerebus23

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May 16, 2010
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people will always flock to easy win stuff, unless your going to play with friends or a good clan you got to expect it and accept it and hope the devs fix it eventually.

online people use aim bots, wall hacks, roll the most op characters in mmos, they like to get their ep33n on in most cases, in other cases they just want to ruin the game for others, some people use the stuff just because they like it.

either way cheating if its by hacks or "cheating" because of a dev miscalculation only way to really avoid it it in many cases is find a group to play with.

and we wont even count all the smack talk random abuse and general maturity of a good chunk of online players that you can skirt by playing with a decent clan or group of friends.
 

JaymesFogarty

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Alex Sheppard said:
JaymesFogarty said:
I'd say that it isn't right to complain about being killed by a weapon included in the game, especially if you've got access to it as well. I wouldn't ever poke online from ten feet away with a pole, but people always seem to be complaining about it. It was fine when I was on. By the way, did you play MGS?
Well, that is the standpoint of most abusers of the weapon, sometimes devs put something into a game and while it isn't ment to be used in one way, through exessive play, players find ways to gain an unfair advantage through use of the weapon. This isn't always a problem, but when this use has no feaseable counter, it creates imbalance, which creates a problem. And no, I only own an Xbox 360, and a Nintendo Wii, I have not played MGS.
Sorry if I sounded like one of the missile spammers; I played the game fairly when I was online. I can't stand the community though, (PS3) so I stopped a while back. Plus, I'm more of an atmosphere/story/character person. I agree with you; if players do not have a counter substantial enough for the unfair advantage, it can cause major problems for the players just playing to have fun. (I personally don't have fun being killed several times in ten seconds, due to a spawn location that was right in the middle of a gunfight.) I asked about MGS because you mentioned CQC. I haven't heard that term mentioned outside of those games. I'm curious; where did you pick that up from?
 

Alex Sheppard

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Mar 23, 2010
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JaymesFogarty said:
Alex Sheppard said:
JaymesFogarty said:
I'd say that it isn't right to complain about being killed by a weapon included in the game, especially if you've got access to it as well. I wouldn't ever poke online from ten feet away with a pole, but people always seem to be complaining about it. It was fine when I was on. By the way, did you play MGS?
Well, that is the standpoint of most abusers of the weapon, sometimes devs put something into a game and while it isn't ment to be used in one way, through exessive play, players find ways to gain an unfair advantage through use of the weapon. This isn't always a problem, but when this use has no feaseable counter, it creates imbalance, which creates a problem. And no, I only own an Xbox 360, and a Nintendo Wii, I have not played MGS.
Sorry if I sounded like one of the missile spammers; I played the game fairly when I was online. I can't stand the community though, (PS3) so I stopped a while back. Plus, I'm more of an atmosphere/story/character person. I agree with you; if players do not have a counter substantial enough for the unfair advantage, it can cause major problems for the players just playing to have fun. (I personally don't have fun being killed several times in ten seconds, due to a spawn location that was right in the middle of a gunfight.) I asked about MGS because you mentioned CQC. I haven't heard that term mentioned outside of those games. I'm curious; where did you pick that up from?

I'm glad you agree, forcing a player to stop playing a game they enjoy because of abuse of imbalance is just wrong =/ I picked up CQC from...to be honest I can't recall xD But the only experiance I have had with MGS is I watched someone play MGS4 for a bit, maybe the last few chapters.
 

Brandon237

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Alex Sheppard said:
JaymesFogarty said:
I'd say that it isn't right to complain about being killed by a weapon included in the game, especially if you've got access to it as well. I wouldn't ever poke online from ten feet away with a pole, but people always seem to be complaining about it. It was fine when I was on. By the way, did you play MGS?
Well, that is the standpoint of most abusers of the weapon, sometimes devs put something into a game and while it isn't ment to be used in one way, through exessive play, players find ways to gain an unfair advantage through use of the weapon. This isn't always a problem, but when this use has no feaseable counter, it creates imbalance, which creates a problem. And no, I only own an Xbox 360, and a Nintendo Wii, I have not played MGS.
Think, they took the time to practice, did they not? While they were still learning this they must have been slaughtered a few times, right? If you can use the same strategy, it isn't unfair.

I don't play online multiplayer much, but in singleplayer FPSs I often learn to use the sniper rifle as a close weapon, even if only to prevent being caught off guard while wielding a long range weapon in a close skirmish.

Also, if there is no good counter, use it yourself or stop moaning, it isn't all about winning. I will happily die three times for every kill I get so long as it is a satisfying kill. Oh yes, while a close range pistol round to the head only works very rarely, doing it right is worth it. I also am relaxed when I do play online and prefer to learn from it and laugh a little.

if you are serious bout winning, then play in the way that assures your victory.
 

Enemy Of The State

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HG131 said:
Enemy Of The State said:
It would be nice if there was a "mutual agreement" to avoid such abuse of weapons, but there will always be assholes.
Well, I'd be one such asshole. It's there, I'm using it. Cry and I shall laugh.
Just don't use One Man Army (If we're talking MW2 here)
 

Legion IV

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I only play games competivly that are balanced. So i only play like 3 games. Guilty Gear, Street fighter, Starcraft. I'd like somone to find any major imbalances in those games lol. When somthing is cleary abusable or clearly better then everything theres no point in playing it. Its also kind of funny you think IW put it in fr a reason. IW doesent know balance preiod, the ones who do are the hardcores i'll take there words over IW's. In my opinion the grenade launcher is just well just bad. I use to play MW2 with my friends online for fun (they dont play my games) but i stopped cause half of the kill cams are either RPG's or Grenade launchers.

Also your right. Theres very skilled players who use those things. Thats because they like the game and they'll use whatever is the easyiest on them to perform the best.

Bottom line dont play imbalanced games lol. Find those prefectly balanced games where you are never ounished for your playstyle or choices in play.
 

AWAR

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Nov 15, 2009
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Oooh I got over this "don't use it cause it's cheap" mindset. I play in whatever way I like and if someone is using the tubes, I bring out mine. Hehehe..
 

Lukeydoodly

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I mostly ignore overpowered weapons because they are usually quite boring. Shame not many other people think like that.

And that comment about the ACOG sniper in MW1; people didn't hate it because it was good in CQC, they hated it because the scope gave it extra damage. That extra damage let it become a 1 hit kill anywhere on the body with Stopping Power.
 

Phlopsy

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Nov 21, 2008
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I'd say all is fair game, except for one thing...

Eddie Gordo.

When I went to trade in Tekken 6, the clerk opened the box and the disc fell out in 9 pieces. I had forgotten that I even did that. I must have blacked out in my rage.