AI problems- What the fuck?

[x434343]

Yes, this topic has prolly been made thousands of times, but I need to post this to make a point to every developer who claims their AI is the best.


So, we all know classic AI. Goombahs marching across laterally and such. But as games get more realistic, their AI seems to go nowhere. I'm just gonna grab some from here, but feel free to add some.

1. Assassin's Creed. I'm not too pissed at the AI, because it's kinda logical to a point where they see their friend come falling off a roof and decide, "Oh, a Assassin's up tehre."

2. Half Life 2. Fuck you who say I'm gonna rip it apart. For the most part, it's the best as of yet. Until, in the middle of firefights, you try to pass a squad member and they say "Pardon me." Ignioring the bullet blanket around them.

3. Half-Life 2 Episode 1. Improved AI. Still the same squad problem, but at least there are decent close-range attacks for Alyx.

4. Half-Life 2 episode 2. More improved AI with a Vortigant able to melee.

5. Halo 3. Just an example. "Oh look, Master Chief, let's get in his bullet fire!"

6. Rainbow 6 Vegas 2. 1 example of idiodic AI. -throw grenade, 1 second till it detonates, enemy says...- "Shit..."

7. Crysis. "Oh look a enemy!" -turn invisible- "There is no there!"


So, what the fuck? Wouldn't AI think before attacking? Or is thinking too hard for computers right now?

 

[Piecewise]

ok just gonna say this nice

Have you ever considered the complexity in programming AI's? you literally have to tell them specifically how to react to ALL situations. Try thinking that out. Something simple like
"pick up object" has things like what if they're under fire? or if its a mission critical object? should they use cover to get there? what kind of cover? should they worry about enemies first or later? and it goes on

basically I would say not to flame them too hard, but yes there are problems. If they can't make it up in brains they should at least flank like a mother fucker.

 

[Magnetic2]

To this day fighting Skarrj in the original Unreal is still fun. I guess things where simpler back then, but they roll when shot at, run when they don't have a position of power, and then manage to find an alternative path to you to get an ambush. I dunno, maybe it's just me, but those fights are still fun.

 

[stompy]

I was writing some points in order to defend AI in gaming, when I realised that games have gotten more multiplayer-oriented, or are in a genre where AI isn't really a concern (like JRPGs). This got me thinking: what if the lack of evolution in AI is due to lazy devs neglecting them, and focusing more on multiplayer? Just throwing it out there.

- A procrastinator

 

[Fire Daemon]

I was writing some points in order to defend AI in gaming, when I realised that games have gotten more multiplayer-oriented, or are in a genre where AI isn't really a concern (like JRPGs). This got me thinking: what if the lack of evolution in AI is due to lazy devs neglecting them, and focusing more on multiplayer? Just throwing it out there.

- A procrastinator

This may be the case for Halo 3 but I'm sure that it is not the case for S.T.A.L.K.E.R or CoD4.

 

[The Franco]

If you want to talk about stupid AI, you need to mention the SA-X from Metroid Fusion. But then again, AI is fucking hard to make. I have trouble making basic C programs run without having scanf making bugs that go against the purpose of the program/class project. I could never imagine having to make a program respond to all subtleties required for even a Pac-Man ghost level of intelligence, let alone the symphony of binary that is your hydrocephalic squad in R6V2.

 

[Copter400]

I quite liked Bully's A.I, which periodically dumped the nearest nerd into the nearest garbage disposal unit. On the other hand, Oblivion's A.I was decent until you started to really pay attention. Enemy bandits run straight for you? What were you expecting? Interpretive dance? But when you sneak attack someone, even if you're in complete darkness and standing on a ledge above them, they will turn to face you and attack. No matter what. This is why many people consider the Attack And Run mod to be a bug fix.

 

[Knight Templar]

It can be fun to mess with AI *thinks about a pile of dead gaurds in Assassin's Creed*.

 

[Chilango2]

AI is hard to do, it's really that simple. art of why its hard to do is obvious, "abstract strategy or tactics is a difficult subject for a deterministic pure math logic driven system" but there's the additional level of not wanting to frustrate the player. (if you really succeeded at making your AI really good, they might consistently beat the player, since they don't have the players attention span limitation)

Finally, its the easiest ting to fall off the back of the bus.

 

[JakubK666]

Well...if you tweak an AI to well, he'll be able to clear the game by himself.Or in enemy's case,he'll see you through walls and hear ya from 10 miles away.If you do it too bad, he'll have a lobotomy.So it's pretty hard to find a middle ground.

Also since Fun =/= Realism, developers probably dumb AI's down on purpose.Even though after being zerged on Veteran CoD4, I feel like nuking IW.

 

[redstar alpha]

i just want to say about the stupidaty in certian games and the way they have handled AI i will take up the bigest problem

games where the A.I MUST be good, i am talking about game like fronline and any game where you must capture and protect controle points.
now i am no programmer (although i am pretty handy with BASIC) but i am pretty sure that on a scale of 1 to 10 for complexaty i think getting your NPC'S to protecte a fixed point on the map is not very hard and getting them to capture another fixed point should be about the same but what i am mainly saying is that if you are going to make a game where the player MUST trust in the A.I then you should spend more than a couple of days on it.

 

[Melaisis]

Woozie's AI from San Andreas was always a great memory to me.

 

[Mairsil the Pretender]

I've sometimes wondered about this myself. Is anyone working on improved game AI? It occurred to me, when i was playing HL2;E2 yesterday, that it would be really, really cool if AI allies and enemies could genuinely learn, and change their tactics depending on your own strategy, instead of just being a set of pre-established behaviors. As nice as the AI is, seeing hunters track you down and evade your attacks, to see combine soldiers move and flank, and to see alyx take cover effectively, it just seems so...pre-rendered.

This seems to be yet another thing that never happened. What happened to the Jet Packs? What happened to the moon base? what ever happened to the hover-cars? Now, we can ask, What happened to the AI?

Obviously, Im expecting too much from videogames, but there doesnt seem to have been any massive leaps in AI for a while now. everyone cares about graphics, but no one is trying to make NPCs less pants-on-head retarded.

 

[00exmachina]

Obviously, Im expecting too much from videogames, but there doesnt seem to have been any massive leaps in AI for a while now. everyone cares about graphics, but no one is trying to make NPCs less pants-on-head retarded.

Sorry but this just isn't true. There's a whole school of math / philosophy dedicated to making programs / ai scripting more intelligent. It's called fuzzy logic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzzy_logic).

The basic problem with an AI especially in a game is computers handle yes/no combinations very well. This puts a basic limit on what an AI can be easily set up to handle, ie. In case one pick a or b then proceed. The odds of someone sitting down and writing a really good yes/no AI script for a game considering the time frames games are all ready produced under are in my opinion slim to none. Though it is more likely if the game is mathematically solvable. That's why the AI for a game of checkers seems so much better then the AI controlling npcs in most FPS games. The situation being dealt with is much simpler.

Graphics are simply an easier target, everyone notices the graphics, they show up in screen shots and print ads, is there's a better return on the investment for money spent on the graphics because it can drive sales. The AI on the other hand, no on knows about until they buy or play the game.

 

[squid5580]

I don't expect a free thinking logical AI. The only place to get that is when playing other humans. Can't really fault devs for that when the technology doesn't exist to make a computer think like a human. On that note there is no excuse for some AI in games. Dark Sector (my latest conquest) is a perfect example of an inexcusable AI. During some areas the AI is challenging. Guys jumpin behind cover, dodging the glaive at the last second and using flanking techniques. While other areas (more towards the last 4 or 5 chapters) the AI seemed to start taking stupid pills. Standing in wide open areas staring blankly into space, or my fave (during the final boss fight) completely ignoring me while I am standing right next to them.

 

[cleverlymadeup]

yeah i know ai is hard to program but there's some REALLY bad implementations of it, like doing an escort mission and the guy walks into the mild of fire or you're mission is to protect the person from X mob and the person walks right into the middle of said mob

that's just bad ai, even with the complexity it's lazy coding cause it's a simple statement to compare mobs and do an action based on that comparison

now with that said there are some great ai's out there, quake 3 arena had some good ai and some of the quake engines had some good dm bots to go against, the reaper bot comes to mind

 

[x434343]

Yes, yes. I see many "AI is hard to do" and "Multiplayer is usually better."

However, I don't like it when a developer says their AI is new, better, faster, stronger, and it still ends up as shit.

 

[Stammer]

I like how Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced for the GBA actually has far, far stupider AI than its predecessor that was released about eight years before it. I know it's for a handheld, but come on people. You have crappier graphics with shorter gameplay. The least you could do is keep the AI from turning their backs to a character with attacks dealing 999 damage per hit.