Am I the only one who - no, scratch that: The difference between story and storytelling

[repeating integers]

Now, this is a topic that's been bugging me for a while. I've seen many people refer to many games having a good story, even an excellent story, on these boards while insulting games they think have a "bad" story - but in some of these cases I found myself wondering: Are you really referring to the story, or the way it's told?

I've seen a few people on these boards who think the same way as I do, so I already know I'm not the only one (hence the thread's current title). The way I see it, a game's story and storytelling are very different beasts. A game's story is, essentially, the plot summary you find on wikis. It's a series of connected events, often revolving around characters. The definiton of Storytelling, on the other hand, should be obvious - it's the art of telling the story in an entertaining way. Without it, the story is boring, pointless... nothing.

Storytelling in all forms of entertainment, be it gaming or literature, is very important. Indeed, I would argue it is more important than the story itself - much more important (though my earlier turn of phrase works both ways - storytelling without any story is nothing). This is why I consider the single player campaigns of games like Halo (all of them) and Homeworld to be so compelling - both have roughly average stories, but these are told and presented expertly (in the former's case, through use of cutscenes made excellent by brilliant music, camera angles, and graphics; in the latter's, through the near-perfect levels of atmosphere built by brilliant music and backgrounds and some pretty damn good voice acting).

So, for discussion value:

1) How many of you have paid any thought to these concepts as separate entities, and
2) Which do you consider more important? (i.e will you more readily take a game with an average overall story that's brilliant in the telling - like me - or do you prefer it vice versa?)

 

[repeating integers]

So... does nobody care at all? /blatant-bump

 

[freedomweasel]

I definitely agree with you. You can take most copied, basic story ever and tell it well and it'll be awesome. Just about everything could be boiled down to one of a couple basic stories, it just matters how it is told. That being said, having a good base doesn't hurt.

Don't really have too much add, but you looked lonely in here by yourself!

edit: I'll add that uncharted 2 has an incredibly cliche story: baddy wants ancient powerful artifact to gain power to take over world.. However, it's told well and make it engaging. (in my opinion)

 

[Alakaizer]

Storytelling is very important. Good storytelling makes good games better, while bad storytelling can kill immersion. Not just in video games. Avatar had a story so predictable anyone who went to see it would think they were prescient, but the story was told so well that it was a really enjoyable movie. The first two Metroid Prime games as well (I haven't gotten to play much Corruption, but I want to very badly) also had very good storytelling which drew me into those games even further. I can't think of any games offhand that had bad storytelling, probably because the good one are easier to remember.

 

[Lyx]

I find myself in a bit of a middle-camp. I do agree that what is told and how it is told is not the same thing - but there is some overlapping. This is because i consider story not just "events" and "words" (in fact, some of the games which impressed me the most about immersion and story-telling (see what i did there?) didn't even use any words). To me, story really is everything that is communicated (so, also landscape - especially if the look of the landscape "tells" something about itself). This also includes communicated feelings.

But, the way things are communicated modifies what is communicated. Sure, if you don't have anything to tell, there'll be not much "method". But if you do have something to tell, then what the player perceives will be your message, modified by how you communicate it. This isn't specific to games. You also know it from plain normal relationships and chats.

As for my taste: To me, it seems that as soon as the designer has something interesting to tell, that doesn't seem copycat or artificial, it all comes down to how you tell it, because: You wont be able to tell everything you want try to express anyways, so one your "story" reaches a certain complexity, you may get more out by concentrating on how to communicate key elements as well as possible.

Also, of course there is the issue of "less sometimes being more". With this, i don't mean that minimalistic stories are better - its just that if your story becomes overly complex, player attention will be distributed so much, that the individual elements dont get the attention anymore which they deserve.

In Summary, if it works for the gamestyle, i think one can get the most out by coming up with an interesting story that is not overcomplex (but also not too simple), and then spending all remaining energy on how to express it as well as possible.

P.S.: I just noticed that this isn't limited to story/storytelling - it even applies to the game as a whole too - which is why polishing matters so much. I know a lot of devs that really hate polishing - perhaps even more than debugging. I never felt like that. It seems to me they consider it a "high effort, little gain" task. A bit like "man, i could come up with 10 new features, while i try to make this one work well" - i guess you can via the implied sarcasm guess my opinion about that

 

[hittite]

Never really separated the two before. Thanks for giving me something new to think about when playing my next game.

As to which is better, I'd have to say that storytelling is slightly more important than the story itself.

 

[Naota_391]

I strongly prefer good story-telling over a good story. Seems to me that this is what video games are all about. The story is important, but it's the story-telling and the potential we have in doing this in so many different ways that gives video games an adventage over any other medium.

 

[T-Bone24]

I prefer stories told well. You can take a relatively contrived story, but if you tell it well then I'll at least pay attention, see Avatar.

 

[oplinger]

There are people who think the story and the way it's told are the same? ...Ouch.

to 1. Yes. ..I kinda...knew that from the start. So I guess I have thought about it. It's why we like Metal Gear isn't it?

2. I think they're both important, as they sort of go hand in hand.

 

[runnerbelow]

Storytelling is very important. It is needed to make a world feel alive. How the story is told, through narration, or through the characters and the World is important to consider. I prefer the latter as it helps with the immersion greatly, and it can help give a touch of realism, and I think it helps to make the game even better.

 

[theSovietConnection]

I think good storytelling is key to an enjoyable game for me, as even the most basic story is great as a game when told well. However, I think a good story can make the expanded universe, and ultimately, in my opinion, the series, much more enjoyable.

 

[Zhukov]

Meh. Semantics.

They're pretty much the same thing. A story that is well told is, by definition, a good story. And a story that is poorly told is a crappy story.

 

[2fish]

That only comes up for me when I say "the story had potential but what moron thought it would be a good idea to make the elves have such high pitch voices if they are going to be talking at me so much?"

Yes as it is with jokes it can be messed up by its presenation as well as how well it is written.

However in the end it doesn't matter what messed up the story, it still came off as a bad story.

 

[Heart of Darkness]

Storytelling > Story. Always. It's much more important to actively interest the viewer in the way a story is told rather than throwing a completely "unique" story at them. From what I heard about Dragon Age (seeing as I haven't really progressed all that far into the game), it's a pretty standard story (*coughcoughtolkeincough*), but it presents the story in an interesting and compelling manner. Then again, I'm sure some exceptions do exist, yet I can't think of any right off the bat.

Of course, it helps to have a unique story in the first place, but it isn't imperative to the success of the storytelling.

 

[Grey_Focks]

Funny you should bring this up. I was actually just talking about the videogame storytelling the other day, and Halo was one of the examples I brought up, along with BioShock, Metal Gear, Mass Effect, and Final Fantasy.

Some strive to tell great stories, but in a pretty standard "just keep throwing cutscenes at you till you get it" way, and others tell decent stories in great ways, with the use of atmosphere, character chatter, music, and art style. But yea, storytelling > story, by a mile.

 

[ShakesZX]

1) How many of you have paid any thought to these concepts as separate entities, and
2) Which do you consider more important? (i.e will you more readily take a game with an average overall story that's brilliant in the telling - like me - or do you prefer it vice versa?)

1) I'm a very analytical person so I think about these things all the time, and being a theatre major doesn't help.
2)I think that the way you tell a story is more important, than the actual story because we have reached a point where there are no more unique stories. Everything now is merely an evaluation, escalation, continuation, or rehashing of a previous story. So taking that into account, the story is insignificant because the way you tell an old story makes it seem new.

 

[arsenicCatnip]

But, the way things are communicated modifies what is communicated. Sure, if you don't have anything to tell, there'll be not much "method". But if you do have something to tell, then what the player perceives will be your message, modified by how you communicate it. This isn't specific to games. You also know it from plain normal relationships and chats.

This is how I feel about the whole topic. A great story, told badly, becomes a bad story. A mediocre story, told brilliantly, becomes better than its original source. Storytelling is, itself, difficult to separate from 'story'.

That said, there are a few games where the 'story-telling' is better than the story itself (Odin Sphere, cough cough).

 

[Lyx]

false quote

I think you misquoted something there. What you quoted was from the OP, not from me

 

[Judgement101]

Story is the plot, Storytellng is its presentation.

Example: The STORY of Alpha Protocol is about a sucky spy. The STORYTELLING is his actions towards sucking that much.

 

[JeanLuc761]

Well said OP; that's a major reason as to why I think Half-Life 2 (and its episodes) are among the best games in history. The storytelling and the immersion is second to none, even if the story itself isn't fully original.