Anime and Internal Logic

[Paragon Fury]

So I've been watching/re-watching some of my anime lately and its brought up something I find a bit annoying. I enjoy it when an anime does its best to stay true to its own lore/internal logic. But it drives me nuts when writers seem to completely forget about or ignore their own logic and established lore. I mean, is it seriously that hard to stay consistent and true to your own world?

Here are a couple of examples:

Sekirei: At the finale of Season 2, the main character Minato has to make it to the top of MBI's headquarters, the tallest building in Tokyo by 4:00PM that day - if he does MBI's CEO will give the hospital where a friend of his is the plans for a treatment to help his friend. In order to make it harder for him though, MBI's CEO tells everyone who has a Sekirei in the city that if they stop Minato from reaching the top of the tower, they won't be forced to give up their Sekirei and (supposedly) be excused from fighting the rest of the tournament meaning they won't be putting their Sekirei in danger. Sounds bad for Minato, right?

Except that Minato has 6 Sekirei of his own, 4 of which are part of the top 10 strongest Sekirei, one of whom is supposed to be the smartest Sekirei ever, and Minato himself is supposed to be a near-genius level intellect himself. His Sekirei each have a power that would help, including - super strength allowing incredible jumps, the ability to manipulate plant life, flight granted through manipulation of the wind and water manipulation which has been previously shown to allow the user to generate a surface that you can stand on.

What does he opt to do?

Take the #@$^#&# stairs.

Yes, he puts all of his Sekirei in danger, himself and everyone else by taking the stairs and having to fight through traps and the building. Which leaves everyone exhausted when the big bad shows up at the end.

Even worse is there were no rules about how to get up there - it was literally just "Get up here by 4:00PM". He could've rented a freaking helicopter and been fine.

Naurto: Ok, there is plenty that could be done here - not least of which is "Ninja engaging in mass attrition warfare against an enemy that outnumbers them by a freaking lot". But one thing that always struck as particularly ridiculous is long-range communication in the Naruto world. They use messenger pigeons and some weird telepathy power later on.

Ok.......except that this is a world where television, telephones AND PORTABLE EARPIECE RADIOS EXIST. AND ARE COMMONLY AVAILABLE. Don't believe me? It what they use the coordinate the Chunin exam in the first seasons of Naruto and during Squad Seven's first mission. And most of the houses and stores have at least a small TV and phone in them.

But carrier pigeons and telepathy, right? Its not like those radios have any tactical military applications at all or anything........

 

[The Wykydtron]

That is pretty much the only thing that damages my suspension of disbelief at all, I can't think of any anime examples really but an example that comes to mind is Uncharted 3 around the three quarter mark and onwards.

They sneak Drake a God Mode hack and he breaks all rules regarding mortality and/or physics. He escapes a sinking ship (while getting punched in the face and shot,) falls out of a plane (while getting punched in the face and shot,) treks through a desert with zero water for ages then engages in horse to horse combat. Then gets shot. Again.

I know it's Indiana Jones logic but Indy still actually looked mortal. Drake turns into a God the moment he heaves a massive piece of ceiling off him and outruns a shitload of water.

Oh I will say the end of the Aizen arc broke Bleach for me completely. Fucking bullshit. You overpower a villain that badly and expect me to believe Ichigo waltzes in and instakills him? Aizen effortlessly wins like a 1v10 versus the ENTIRE supporting cast on the good side then he lets his right hand man assassinate him just to see how he would have gone about it. Then just shrugs off a stab through the heart.

Apparently Ichigo got infinite training time then Aizen's whatsit thing just upped and left him. How convenient.

 

[FalloutJack]

SNIP

Nothing about Naruto makes any sense, especially since it doesn't have any ninjas in it. (Rather, it contains shouty people with super powers.)

Some things are just poorly-made.

 

[Korenith]

My biggest gripe with Bleach was that Ichigo defeats Zaraki with just a shikai and then later Zaraki beats an Espada without an major power increase in between. And I know there was some sort of Aizen manipulating Ichigo from the shadows attempt at an explanation but it really didn't work to my mind. I know this kind of thing is common in that kind of anime but that was really really badly done.

 

[madwarper]

My biggest gripe with Bleach was that Ichigo defeats Zaraki with just a shikai and then later Zaraki beats an Espada without an major power increase in between. And I know there was some sort of Aizen manipulating Ichigo from the shadows attempt at an explanation but it really didn't work to my mind. I know this kind of thing is common in that kind of anime but that was really really badly done.

Have you been keeping up with the manga? This is kind of explained in 526.

Spoiler

Ever since his first fight with Kenpachi Unohana, Zaraki has been unconsciously restrained his power, so he could enjoy fighting longer. It was only after he killed her in battle that he would be able to remove the restraint and learn the name of his zanpakto.

 

[Auron225]

Yeah in Naruto when it showed the 5 Lords using video conferencing I was like, what? Ya'll serious? Technology is a very very confusing thing in Naruto. Surely if they had that, then they would have phones at least.

Not to mention the fact that they call themselves ninjas yet they appear to be as stealthy as DBZ characters.

The power levels in Bleach are just pure messed up - they've always been messed up. Do Soul Society not find it ridiculous that their ordinary foot soldiers are absolute shit, meaning all the real combat of real threats must be done by vice-captains and captains? To very same people who probably shouldn't have to be the ones doing literally all of the fighting. They didn't even bother brining the ordinary shinigami to the battle with Aizen and his Arrancar - they knew fine rightly there was no point. What the f*ck did they do the whole time?

 

[Sniper Team 4]

I gave up on trying to figure out the tech thing in Naruto looooong ago. Like, back when Naruto was still a 'kid' and not...what is he now, 15? So a teenager. My brother and I just point it out, make a quick joke, and go back to watching it.
No, the things that get me in Naruto are all these jutsus that have special restrictions on them, or rules that can't be broken, or all sorts of stuff like that. And then, further down the line, those rules suddenly don't exist. The Edo tensin (reanimation) jutsu rules have been thrown out the window so many times now with the war going on. Still, I enjoy the series.

You're right about Sekirei too. A lot of the times the characters don't seem to use their strengths in the smartest way possible.

I shall add my own now. In Heaven's Lost Property, Ikaros isn't supposed to be able to make facial expressions. Now that her memory block has been removed, she can feel emotions, but she can't show them on her face. This is the reason she never smiles. Yet she sure doesn't seem to have a problem making a sad face, or a weeping/heartbroken face. So, what? She just can't smile then? That seems rather odd.

 

[l3o2828]

Silly rabbit, Logic in poorly written anime?

 

[maninahat]

It isn't anime, but I've been thinking a lot about the internal logic of the Crossed: Wish You Were Here webcomic series.

Characters have a habit of losing all agency or ability to make an input, even in situations where they really would have said or done something. The nature of the comic is that we only see things from a limited perspective; what the protagonist can actually see. Realistically, lots of things would be happening "off camera", but they don't. Instead, the only things that happen off camera are the ridiculously implausible things that would be too difficult and inconvenient for the writer to depict. For instance, one character; a massive racist arse hole with delusions of grandeur and a tendency to call everyone a ****, allegedly befriends everyone whilst the character wasn't around...how could that happen? Bear in mind that a good number of the people already know this individual to be a selfish, evil bastard, but apparently didn't see fit to mention this to those who somehow hadn't noticed. They don't say a damn thing or warn anyone when this guy starts trying to order folk about.

Similarly, there is a sub plot featuring an even bigger arsehole; a rapist gamekeeper whom everyone is depending on for their continued survival. How this man actually ensures these people stay alive is never shown. We are just continually assured that he is totally not worth shooting, despite being a murderous, vile rapist. It's a hard pill to swallow, and it is really hard to believe that no one would have murdered him ages ago.

 

[Paragon Fury]

I gave up on trying to figure out the tech thing in Naruto looooong ago. Like, back when Naruto was still a 'kid' and not...what is he now, 15? So a teenager. My brother and I just point it out, make a quick joke, and go back to watching it.
No, the things that get me in Naruto are all these jutsus that have special restrictions on them, or rules that can't be broken, or all sorts of stuff like that. And then, further down the line, those rules suddenly don't exist. The Edo tensin (reanimation) jutsu rules have been thrown out the window so many times now with the war going on. Still, I enjoy the series.

You're right about Sekirei too. A lot of the times the characters don't seem to use their strengths in the smartest way possible.

To be fair, if they did then the contest would be over already because Tsukimi would have already won because she has the most (potentially) broken power.

 

[triggrhappy94]

I guess you could explain the Naruto thing. Never watched Sekirei though.

My anime advice: Fuck shonen, watch Squid Girl. So much better.
Most shonen sucks.

 

[IllumInaTIma]

Why would you limit it just to animes? It's not like all other forms of media don't have internal logic inconsistencies.

 

[MorganL4]

Well at least we can all take comfort in the knowledge that Death Note maintains it's own lore pretty well.

 

[uchytjes]

Logic? in anime? that is like trying to mix oil and water...

OT: yeah... main characters do stupid things sometimes, but there is an actual reason for technology in Naruto. Basically think about it in this manner: in that world there are ninjas that make up roughly 1% of the population (I'm just guessing). What about the other 99%? Most of them may not even be able to use jutsu like the ninjas (take Rock Lee, for example). The rest of the population probably just kept on innovating technology to emulate what the ninjas have.

You know what? This is why I prefer comedies. Take Nichijou for instance: There is no need for logic there.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Naurto: Ok, there is plenty that could be done here - not least of which is "Ninja engaging in mass attrition warfare against an enemy that outnumbers them by a freaking lot". But one thing that always struck as particularly ridiculous is long-range communication in the Naruto world. They use messenger pigeons and some weird telepathy power later on.

Ok.......except that this is a world where television, telephones AND PORTABLE EARPIECE RADIOS EXIST. AND ARE COMMONLY AVAILABLE. Don't believe me? It what they use the coordinate the Chunin exam in the first seasons of Naruto and during Squad Seven's first mission. And most of the houses and stores have at least a small TV and phone in them.

But carrier pigeons and telepathy, right? Its not like those radios have any tactical military applications at all or anything........

it's not a STRONG reason but perhaps they use the jutsu's and carrier pigeons because they don't want their messages intercepted or received by the wrong people?

not trying to defend naruto on that, there have been plenty of times where the technological timeline of it all "what.the.fuck."

doens't stop me from enjoying it though!

 

[Sack of Cheese]

Nothing about Bleach makes sense. Why are all the dead people wearing Japanese clothing? Even the black guys? Where do non-Japanese people go when they die?

 

[Alex Graves]

Wait, wait just one second....you mean to say there is an anime that actually has logic/follows it's own rules/lore? I'm calling bullshit on that one, cuz the words coming out of your mouth are INSANE!

Obvious reference aside It's not just anime that do it (ninja'd on that statement), there are quite a few video games that are just as bad at it. To be honest anything that goes on for to long will begin to break it's own rules and limits (see the warcraft universe during the WoW burning crusades and onward). Most people either can't keep up with their own rules or know they will continue to make shittons of cash and so they don't give a flying fuck on the subject (again see WoW, or bleach, naruto, and maybe one piece/ D. grey-man(didn't get far enough into those two to know for sure though)). For animes anything that goes over about 100 episodes starts to have problems, I don't read mangas to often so I can't say what(or if) the limit is there, I'm sure gantz(either being to long and failing or not being long enough and still staying accurate) could serve as an example on that factor though (that series is still running right?). Although, there are a lot of animes who just half way through "change" the rules, like the fullmetal sins becoming killable, and I think ghost in the shell when the villain in second gig was able to leap back and forth from the net like Major with no damage to his ghost(the full spirit/mind leaving the body and being able to return to it or a new one) but most of the series is a blur to me so there may have been others who could do so like Major.

To avoid sitting here for an hour or so I'm just leaving it with those ones and going now, have fun chasing lazy writers and plot holes.

 

[madwarper]

Has Bleach gotten better? I stopped reading in the middle of the Fullbringer arc for being really freakin' boring. After the already boring year long fight with Aizen and then the hundred or so chapters of mostly boring fights prior to that.

Can't really say... They're on what's supposed to be the final arc. So, I reckon if I've been with it this far, I might as well see it to the end.

Spoiler

Quincys attack the Soul Society and Hueco Mundo, killing off several shinigami/hollows. Ichigo shows up, nearly gets killed, awakens a new power and has to go train it.