Another thing about female game characters...

[Hides His Eyes]

Aside from the usual complaints about lame, stereotyped, underwritten female characters in games, there is one thing that really, really, really, really, really p-sses me off: Ever noticed how in RPGs, fighting games, and other games where characters stand in some kind of fighting stance for extended periods, the men always stand as if they're in a boxing ring or a battlefield, while the women always - and I mean ALWAYS, invariably - stand as if they're on a catwalk. Unless there's some well-kept secret of the martial arts that makes it practical to stand with all your weight on one leg, one hip higher than the other, your chest stuck out, no guard of any kind, and pouting... this needs to stop right now.

Outfits suffer from the same problem. There's nothing wrong with women wearing high heels, but during a fight? Or dangerous adventure in some wilderness or dungeon?

I'm not normally one to point at a convention and say "that's unrealistic!!" but when it's so obviously linked to gender stereotypes, and so f---ing patronising, it really does annoy me.

Does anyone else have this issue or is it just me?

 

[TheDooD]

Street Fighter, King of Fighters, Guilty Gear, BlazBlue, Tekken, Dead or Alive, Darkstalkers etc. you really want to single out women not being realistic when there's a clusterfuck of shit that's not real in the game. Saying that their stance or what they wear is wrong want do you want to have on traditional fighting garb they'll make them generic. The girls are suppose to stand out in a way and IF you really played fighting games you'll notice most female characters have legit fighting stances. Plus remember it's a game please quit shoehorning realism when there's people that can shoot fireballs from their hands. Also you have to think about what if the character WANTS to wear the sexy clothing or using the funny stance that you deem as wrong. It doesn't matter when you're picking up teeth of the pavement does it.

 

[Lilani]

-snip-

I think I'm with TheDooD on this one. You are correct in that female characters are typically portrayed as hyperfeminine, but what about all of the hypermasculine male characters? There's at least twice as many of those in all of video games, if not more. Look at all the musclebound thugs in Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Soul Calibur, Gears of War, or any other game that features any male character. I mean, even in the RPGs and MMOs where you can make the character yourself you can never make the character look any less sculpted or lean than Michelangelo's David.

You cannot look at all of those over-the-top male characters and tell me they are any less unrealistic than the female characters, in behavior or appearance. You talk about the unreasonable armor, well what about the guys who are shirtless, barefoot, and wearing no more than a loincloth on their lower half? What is that going to protect them from? The chill of a sudden breeze between their legs? And what happens if they step on a sharp rock? That will bring them down quick.

 

[Murais]

Aye, I'd rather have game developers fix the poorly written, shallowly presented, neediness driven lameitude of female game characters than to worry about fighting stance. I've seen more than a few times where at least stance has been done right. But character development? Not so much.

I really enjoy romance sub-plots (I'm a mushball at heart). Sometimes, they're my favorite part of an RPG. But every time I play a game with one/some, I facepalm because of the ridiculous presentation of the characters involved. It's almost always a "I'M BROKEN AND HOT, BUT YOU CAN FIX ME, LAWL" scenario, screaming of neediness and just generally insecurity. In game, you pretty much have to go with, but IRL I'd be running for the hills. Then your character responds with some equally cheesy/needy dialogue, and lo'! A bad relationship is born.

I dunno. Pet peeve of mine. I have seen some strides in the right direction, and there are some exceptions, but overall I'd really like for my protagonists to be more well-adjusted people on the odd occasion.

 

[Hides His Eyes]

Ok, good points. But it's not only that it's unrealistic that bothers me. As I said, lack of realism is almost never an issue for me. It's the combination of lack of realism with very obvious "look at my jiggly tits" stereotyping of female characters that annoys me. And Lilani, I can't give you evidence of it, but I'm pretty sure semi-naked females are a much more common sight in games than semi-naked males, although both can be found.

I guess in Tekken the female characters are as realistic as the male, and in Mortal Kombat the male ones are as unrealistic as the female. But in Soul Calibur, and in almost all RPGs, there is a definite discrepancy.

 

[Hides His Eyes]

Aye, I'd rather have game developers fix the poorly written, shallowly presented, neediness driven lameitude of female game characters than to worry about fighting stance. I've seen more than a few times where at least stance has been done right. But character development? Not so much.

I really enjoy romance sub-plots (I'm a mushball at heart). Sometimes, they're my favorite part of an RPG. But every time I play a game with one/some, I facepalm because of the ridiculous presentation of the characters involved. It's almost always a "I'M BROKEN AND HOT, BUT YOU CAN FIX ME, LAWL" scenario, screaming of neediness and just generally insecurity. In game, you pretty much have to go with, but IRL I'd be running for the hills. Then your character responds with some equally cheesy/needy dialogue, and lo'! A bad relationship is born.

I dunno. Pet peeve of mine. I have seen some strides in the right direction, and there are some exceptions, but overall I'd really like for my protagonists to be more well-adjusted people on the odd occasion.

Yep I agree with that. And yes, on balance, character depth and writing quality is, in most types of game, more important to me than, um, fighting stance. I was simply pointing out one particular peeve I have and asking if anyone else shares it.

It's starting to look like it's just me :/

 

[LokiArchetype]

Unless there's some well-kept secret of the martial arts that makes it practical to stand with all your weight on one leg, one hip higher than the other, your chest stuck out, no guard of any kind, and pouting

It bothers you that they stand normally?...

Distributed weight onto one leg (which in turn displaces your hips and shoulders so that they're tilted in opposite directions to one another) is the natural, relaxed standing position. In art its called 'contrapposto'.

As to why they don't take a fighting stance, didn't Sun Tzu say that war is about deception? Maybe they're trying to trick their opponent into underestimating them as defenseless women with no fighting knowledge.

 

[Richardplex]

Unless there's some well-kept secret of the martial arts that makes it practical to stand with all your weight on one leg, one hip higher than the other, your chest stuck out, no guard of any kind, and pouting

It bothers you that they stand normally?...

Distributed weight onto one leg (which in turn displaces your hips and shoulders so that they're tilted in opposite directions to one another) is the natural, relaxed standing position. In art its called 'contrapposto'.

As to why they don't take a fighting stance, didn't Sun Tzu say that war is about deception? Maybe they're trying to trick their opponent into underestimating them as defenseless women with no fighting knowledge.

I believe the chain mail bra and panties did that job already

OT: I don't play fighting games, so the female characters I play don't have that problem, bar lighting from FF13. But it would greatly annoy me if I saw it happen.

 

[Hides His Eyes]

Unless there's some well-kept secret of the martial arts that makes it practical to stand with all your weight on one leg, one hip higher than the other, your chest stuck out, no guard of any kind, and pouting

It bothers you that they stand normally?...

Distributed weight onto one leg (which in turn displaces your hips and shoulders so that they're tilted in opposite directions to one another) is the natural, relaxed standing position. In art its called 'contrapposto'.

As to why they don't take a fighting stance, didn't Sun Tzu say that war is about deception? Maybe they're trying to trick their opponent into underestimating them as defenseless women with no fighting knowledge.

It bothers me that they stand normally in a fight, yes. And maybe every woman in every game is a master of deceptive fighting techniques, yes... or maybe game designers make them look sexy rather than giving them a workable fighting stance because they think - mistakenly - that gamers would be disappointed by female characters who don't look as sexy as humanly possible at all times.

In most fighting styles, holding your hands or weapon up and in front of you so you don't get hit in the face is considered more important than lulling your enemy into a false sense of security, because it IS more important.

Again I feel like one of those annoying know-it-all types complaining about realism, but for some reason this is one thing that really irritates me.

 

[StBishop]

I have to say, you're just wrong. You said always and I point to Aveline Valen of Dragon Age 2.
I then point to Christy (spelling) from Tekken who literally stands in the exact same way Eddie did in previous games. Eddie is a dude.

You're simply either wrong or need to cut the hyperbole.

 

[SuperGauntlet]

I know this is slightly OT, but Elizabeth's chest in Bioshock: Infinite bugs me. It's too damn big. It makes her look cartoony... And it annoys me.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Unless there's some well-kept secret of the martial arts that makes it practical to stand with all your weight on one leg, one hip higher than the other, your chest stuck out, no guard of any kind, and pouting

It bothers you that they stand normally?...

Distributed weight onto one leg (which in turn displaces your hips and shoulders so that they're tilted in opposite directions to one another) is the natural, relaxed standing position. In art its called 'contrapposto'.

As to why they don't take a fighting stance, didn't Sun Tzu say that war is about deception? Maybe they're trying to trick their opponent into underestimating them as defenseless women with no fighting knowledge.

It works until you realize that games like DoA and Tekken basically go by the premise: "All the ultimate fighters have beaten up everyone else to prove they are ultimate and now they will all face each other to see who is penultimate". You'd have to be a moron or a misogynist to mistake that girl you are about to face in mortal kombat for an inexperienced newbie.

 

[Erana]

-snip-

I think I'm with TheDooD on this one. You are correct in that female characters are typically portrayed as hyperfeminine, but what about all of the hypermasculine male characters? There's at least twice as many of those in all of video games, if not more. Look at all the musclebound thugs in Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Soul Calibur, Gears of War, or any other game that features any male character. I mean, even in the RPGs and MMOs where you can make the character yourself you can never make the character look any less sculpted or lean than Michelangelo's David.

You cannot look at all of those over-the-top male characters and tell me they are any less unrealistic than the female characters, in behavior or appearance. You talk about the unreasonable armor, well what about the guys who are shirtless, barefoot, and wearing no more than a loincloth on their lower half? What is that going to protect them from? The chill of a sudden breeze between their legs? And what happens if they step on a sharp rock? That will bring them down quick.

At least muscles and boots give them a better fighting chance. >.>

Still, what bothers me is the macromastomy. I am close to sufferers of unusually large breasts, and having them bobble around like that? It hurts!
It hurts even for me if I were to go be active without a bra, and mine are average. No way anyone with a DD cup is going to go run around without some serious support!

 

[-Dragmire-]

Spoiler: sexualised character stance/clothing that makes sense given the games setting

Within the context of certain games, the character's fighting stance and clothing may be justified.

Granted, doesn't happen very often.

 

[Lilani]

At least muscles and boots give them a better fighting chance. >.>

Still, what bothers me is the macromastomy. I am close to sufferers of unusually large breasts, and having them bobble around like that? It hurts!
It hurts even for me if I were to go be active without a bra, and mine are average. No way anyone with a DD cup is going to go run around without some serious support!

This is true...though my breasts are slowly shrinking due to weight loss, so at this point I sort of wish I had your problem >.>

And still, looking at some of the Street Fighter and Gears of War fellows, their muscles look like they would severely hinder their range of motion. Like those steroid-pumped bodybuilders who can't bring their arms in front of their body.

I think for the most part the hypersexuality is pretty even across the board, though I do admit the Japanese games seem to have even more of a fetish for bikini-clothed females with melons the size of Saskatchewan than most. I guess they're just following the psychology that unattractive men are a lot more tolerable than unattractive women. I mean, just look at any sitcom about a married couple. King of Queens, Everybody Loves Raymond, the Flintstones...it's alright for the husband to be modest in looks, but the wife? Always has to be thin and look great. Always.

 

[kyogen]

I mind posing and odd costume designs a lot less than poor dialog and characterization, and I often enjoy it when games indulge in a stereotype a little sarcastically: Dragon Age: Origins has Morrigan (where's my bra?) and Leliana (I'm crazy and I have a shoe fetish) arguing about fashion and romance in a relatively believable context. Hunted: The Demon's Forge and Nier both comment humorously on the appropriateness of being an underdressed female lead. Good times.

I agree with the OP that there's still a problem with how women are represented in gaming, but it's slowly changing as developers catch on to changes in audience tastes and demographics. No reason not to call them out on a truly bad job, but there's also no reason to condemn every single bit of silliness.

 

[chinangel]

I kinda get your point. Female characters written as females first, characters later. ANd not even good females...cliche's. Characterized in the same way that one might if their only exposure to women was through porn.

Wait...

...

that explains a disturbing amount...

 

[Drakmeire]

Yup, Chie totally fights like a girl.
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I will ALWAYS bring up the Persona series when it comes to RPG stereotypes, since it invokes and then deconstructs almost all of them Chie's fighting style makes a lot of sense to me since she is energetic and always moving which makes sense as a stance and as the character.

 

[Kapri]

As a female gamer it pisses me off sometimes but what can you do? Characters like Ivy (Soul Cal), for example, just make me shudder and smack my head in shame because that's how a lot of women are portrayed in video games. I rarely see a female character NOT wearing a low cut t-shirt or her boobs hanging out, but that's not to say every game does it.