Are people, in general, out of their minds?

[ButtonedDownParadox]

Dear speaking (in a sense) members of the Escapist,

What do you feel is the goal of your average American? Would you say it's the house with the white picket fences and the children on their swing set with the wife bringing a delicious casserole out of the oven?

Sure that sounds like it would appease just about anyone.

But what do you feel pushes them on a more base level? I mean with the proper application of oneself the above scenario is possible to just about anyone. So with every thing in reach what is it that drives your average American?

The theory I push is that there really isn't much of anything pushing your average American. And thus we come to delusion.

Think of how divided America has become in the last decade. I'll admit being only twenty I'm not much qualified to confirm this but I've been told that I'm on to something.

People are taking their sides and sticking to them with fingers in both ears and eyes closed to the opposition. Here I would like to post a few little posts which were in reference to the Congressional Address of last night:

I am amazed how the American people can be led to slaughter. It was not bush who led us to this hell. First it was Clinton who went to China in 1995 and cut some huge deals and pakaged up all our manufacturing in a huge box and sent it lock stock and barrel to China.

I hope they Fed Ex-ed it. That's still an American business, right? But seriously. Let's use some common sense here. Does he honestly believe that a president could control private businesses and force them to relocate to China? Does he honestly believe that businesses weren't doing this in bulk before 1995? Does he honestly believe an elected public servant met in an alleyway and took a briefcase full of money in exchange for a little box marked, "American infrastructure" on the side?

Clinton left the Governors office in Arkansas with a small salary to get into the presidency and is now worth over 105+ million dollars, he wanted the money and Hiolary wanted the power. Do you Know that Clinton never worked a job in his life? He had a law degree but never went to court? It was the Justice Department who set the anti-trust suits to make IBM move out of the country and teach all the Indians how to do our jobs.

Holy shit. I think he IS serious.

Now I don't want to move into a political argument. I will readily admit there are people JUST like this on the other side of the political spectrum substituting Obama and Clinton and racist overtones for Bush, Rove, and Cheney. I was just roaming around and spotted that gem and thought, "Jesus. Do these people actually believe themselves? Do they HONESTLY think Obama has ties to Muslim terrorist organizations and is just waiting to strike?! Do they know that law-making passes through three branches? Checks and balances ring a bell? The man can't pass a stimulus bill in a major recession let alone go all Nero on the Christians."

And so that brings me back to my starting point. Are people in general conducting a war in their heads? Are they seeing everyone who disagrees with them as, "the enemy" and living in fantasy realms where justice shall come to their enemies and that they are always right? Is it, "In delusion we trust" now? And the ultimate question: Are people, in general, out of their mind?

 

[Nivag the Owl]

I think you answered your own questions really.

 

[ButtonedDownParadox]

If I just wanted to hear myself then that would be against the purpose, would it not?

 

[Brotherofwill]

I agree to your general point:
If people lack purpose or direction in their life they are more prone to follow organizations as a substitute for their ideas. Well, people just like to feel a part of something important, and there are quite a few ideologies that try to exploit this (Scientology , anyone?)

Same reason I think small kids stick to their consoles in religious fashions and start flamewars.

Who said the stuff in the posts?

 

[Corpse XxX]

Yes, i believe Americans in general are out of their mind..
But my opinion is based upon what i've seen on the tv, though journalists and news reporters often just show the "extremists" point of view..

It seems to me that every american is very patriotic, and will blindly believe everything their goverment tells them..

 

[Dele]

Jesus...Obama...Muslim

Yeah that pretty much sums it up. People are nuts, get used to it.

 

[ButtonedDownParadox]

Who said the stuff in the posts?

Some thread that I followed through from an MSN article about the reaction to Obama's congressional speech.

It gets crazier than that but I found that sample relatively coherent enough to use.

 

[ButtonedDownParadox]

Jesus...Obama...Muslim

Yeah that pretty much sums it up. People are nuts, get used to it.

That is pretty humorous but would you care to elaborate for the sake of this discussion? Because I'm not sure your summary of my post is exactly on the same page.

 

[Sion_Barzahd]

I don't think this sorta thing is just in the U.S either, i mean people don't trust strangers from outside their circles these days.
You help a man who falls down and he looks at you like you'd mug him.
But thats about social collapse, moving on..

I think the fact that people latch onto one person or group's ideals and follows them religiously, and blindly, is a big issue. But not a new issue.
Though you can't blame people for wanting something to believe in, and being aggitated when their idilic man/group etc. is argued against. Its the world trying to pop their ignorance bubble, which has been filled with false bliss.
So yes the world, as a whole, is deluded. The non-deluded are constantly on the lookout for conspiricy and hidden motives.

 

[ioxles]

Politics was summed up pretty neatly in the series "Yes, Prime Minister" for me, as for people being out of their minds in general, yes, I think so, just some more visibly than others.

If normality is conforming to the social acceptabilities of those around you, making you normal for wherever you are, and madness is the opposite, then isn't everyone by definition normal and mad at the same time? (Edit: because whats acceptable somewhere isn't elsewhere)

 

[Masika]

To put it simply, I think the majority of the Western Culture is that people (for the most part) are trying to better themselves and not thinking about the rest of the world. So people are making wars with themselves and with others around them, and are being led by the same people that make BIG wars.

 

[ButtonedDownParadox]

Politics was summed up pretty neatly in the series "Yes, Prime Minister" for me, as for people being out of their minds in general, yes, I think so, just some more visibly than others.

If normality is conforming to the social acceptabilities of those around you, making you normal for wherever you are, and madness is the opposite, then isn't everyone by definition normal and mad at the same time? (Edit: because whats acceptable somewhere isn't elsewhere)

Is this series you mention available on the web?

Also that is an interesting point you make of being mad and normal.

 

[P1p3s]

a/ we're not all americans
b/ this is true of every large culture, the Romans were innovative and millitarily mighty, but it got fat and lazy and had its throat slit in the night (figuratively speaking)
EDIT: come to think of it, they had a succession of crazy leaders to boot!

 

[ButtonedDownParadox]

a/ we're not all americans

I'm well aware and I apologize if I implied that at any point.

Is this also the case in your part of the world? If so do you feel that it's for the same reasons? Because it's clearly not a worldwide issue. And could you also be more clear as to how this phenomenon ties into Roman history? I'm not quite sure if it was delusion so much as excess that sank them. I suppose you could tie the two together but I may not be seeing the full picture.

 

[ioxles]

Politics was summed up pretty neatly in the series "Yes, Prime Minister" for me, as for people being out of their minds in general, yes, I think so, just some more visibly than others.

If normality is conforming to the social acceptabilities of those around you, making you normal for wherever you are, and madness is the opposite, then isn't everyone by definition normal and mad at the same time? (Edit: because whats acceptable somewhere isn't elsewhere)

Is this series you mention available on the web?

Also that is an interesting point you make of being mad and normal.

Watch the episodes here [http://tv.blinkx.com/show/yes-prime-minister/mpyBPuoyVMEmKZRciR1f_vf7NJZOjZmp#episodes], it has subs and scrolling text but it's still watchable.

 

[P1p3s]

a/ we're not all americans

I'm well aware and I apologize if I implied that at any point.

Is this also the case in your part of the world? If so do you feel that it's for the same reasons? Because it's clearly not a worldwide issue. And could you also be more clear as to how this phenomenon ties into Roman history? I'm not quite sure if it was delusion so much as excess that sank them. I suppose you could tie the two together but I may not be seeing the full picture.

Your candour and articulated response has intrigued me )

My point about Roman societies (and there are many more besides) is that we are reliving their anthropological processes as another high flying globally dominant society. Once a group of people become safe and they start to perceive themselves as great and glorious they become complacent, once complacent then lazy once lazy then...dead.

I'm from the UK and we have a very similar trend here. As a western super power we feel safe in our borders and despite the current financial crisis there is still food on the shelves of our supermarkets and people filling the high streets of our local towns. This isn?t the case in developing countries and they have (generally speaking) a much greater work ethic to prove it, this is demonstrated by the (legitimate) eastern European immigration into my country, skilled people, educated people willing to come here to do menial jobs because the pay is better. Granted they are largely here temporarily but what it shows is a willingness to get off their ass and do something to better their situation (and that of their family).
The same cannot be said for so many of the kids I see today, not readily willing to work, happy to sponge off the state. This isn?t everyone, I write this from my office, an IT company working with high industry/advertising etc, I have a job I earn my wages, not at the moment obviously I?m writing on the escapist, but that is precisely my point. I am complacent, confident in keeping my job that I just don?t work as hard as I could, as hard as I see other people working (foreign people) because I?ve had it comparatively easy as have most of us.

 

[ButtonedDownParadox]

a/ we're not all americans

I'm well aware and I apologize if I implied that at any point.

Is this also the case in your part of the world? If so do you feel that it's for the same reasons? Because it's clearly not a worldwide issue. And could you also be more clear as to how this phenomenon ties into Roman history? I'm not quite sure if it was delusion so much as excess that sank them. I suppose you could tie the two together but I may not be seeing the full picture.

Your candour and articulated response has intrigued me )

My point about Roman societies (and there are many more besides) is that we are reliving their anthropological processes as another high flying globally dominant society. Once a group of people become safe and they start to perceive themselves as great and glorious they become complacent, once complacent then lazy once lazy then...dead.

I'm from the UK and we have a very similar trend here. As a western super power we feel safe in our borders and despite the current financial crisis there is still food on the shelves of our supermarkets and people filling the high streets of our local towns. This isn?t the case in developing countries and they have (generally speaking) a much greater work ethic to prove it, this is demonstrated by the (legitimate) eastern European immigration into my country, skilled people, educated people willing to come here to do menial jobs because the pay is better. Granted they are largely here temporarily but what it shows is a willingness to get off their ass and do something to better their situation (and that of their family).
The same cannot be said for so many of the kids I see today, not readily willing to work, happy to sponge off the state. This isn?t everyone, I write this from my office, an IT company working with high industry/advertising etc, I have a job I earn my wages, not at the moment obviously I?m writing on the escapist, but that is precisely my point. I am complacent, confident in keeping my job that I just don?t work as hard as I could, as hard as I see other people working (foreign people) because I?ve had it comparatively easy as have most of us.

Ha! Well you know if I'm just responding to a thread I'll just throw something out there. It's just my opinion in a sea of them. But when I have my own thread it's like I'm hosting a party and I have to make sure everything is effectively laid out in order for every one to enjoy themselves.

But yes as to what you were saying it is indeed intriguing and merits its own thread but what I was aiming for is how people create their own world from their own fear-induced ideologies and could not even be bothered with alternate viewpoints not much unlike a paranoid schizophrenic does. So not so much arrogance as (And here's the million dollar word) delusion.

On the other hand I suppose their end result is exactly the same. Since the general consensus of this thread is that material comfort promotes delusion/arrogance I suppose the question now is how do we fight convenience while still promoting advancement?

 

[P1p3s]

a/ we're not all americans

response 1

then my response
to that response.

But yes as to what you were saying it is indeed intriguing and merits its own thread but what I was aiming for is how people create their own world from their own fear-induced ideologies and could not even be bothered with alternate viewpoints not much unlike a paranoid schizophrenic does. So not so much arrogance as (And here's the million dollar word) delusion.

On the other hand I suppose their end result is exactly the same. Since the general consensus of this thread is that material comfort promotes delusion/arrogance I suppose the question now is how do we fight convenience while still promoting advancement?

but is not the guarentee of safety/ the perception of these nations in and of itself a delusion.

I love your last question and my only answer is (maddeningly) another question, what is advancement?
If you determine being 'advanced' as technological I really don't see how we can do this without detrimentally affecting the world at large. Convenience has been the root of most of our 'advancements' by that definition "need is the mother of all invention" as they say. If you count advancement as something more introspective, mental, spiritual etc then the answer is immaterial, no seriously thats the answer, a material nature will only further exponetially increase the 'stuff' in our lives and our desire for 'stuff' granted I'm talking more about a western greed but it's born out of their 'fear induced ideologies' as you put it, adding to the delusion because true materialism is just another mechanism to control the masses.

 

[Ionami]

I think people are scared,worried, and anxious.

And so it feels better to blame someone. Whether it's a president or their neighbor, etc. To make someone responsible makes it easier to cope with these things.

 

[DeusFps]

Ye...