Are RTS players looking forward to Dawn of War 3?

[Zhukov]

Right, so, let me make some things clear right from the start. I don't much like RTS games. I've never played the previous DoW games. (Considered buying DoW2, then realised there was no Eldar or Orc campaigns, only boring space marines.) I do however enjoy watching multiplayer replays of DoW2 (specifically the Elite Mod). Weird perhaps, but there you go.

So this is me, an outsider to the genre who probably doesn't know what the hell he's talking about, curious about the opinions among RTS enthusiasts.

Right then. So Dawn of War 3. I've been watching some gameplay footage and, well... it just looks like Starcraft with some MOBA elements thrown in. Everything I've seen has just been death-balls of units blundering into each other.

DoW2 seemed like more of its own thing, with a focus on positioning, counter-play and precise use of abilities.

Also, there's the visual style. Unit models look ugly and lack detail and the particle effect light show is gaudy and over the top. About the only good thing on display are the giant mech heroes, which look legitimately awesome.

So yeah, what does the RTS crowd have to say about this? Am I way off base here? Is there some hidden depths that my in experienced noob eyes are missing?

 

[shrekfan246]

(Considered buying DoW2, then realised there was no Eldar or Orc campaigns, only boring space marines.)

I can't comment on the rest because I haven't actually looked much into DoW3, but DoW2: Retribution has campaigns for all of the playable races in the game. I dunno if they're any good, but they're there.

From a cursory glance at the DOW2 Steam forums (lol) one of the first threads I saw was "petition to make DOW3 a REAL RTS[sup]TM[/sup] like DOW1" with over 2000 comments, so... I get the impression it's possibly a divisive topic.

 

[ChupathingyX]

As someone who loved the first two this one certainly looks disappointing. Some of the reasons being those you already mentioned (bad animations, particle effects etc.), with the addition that I don't really like the focus on hero units and huge walkers.

That said, I've signed up for the beta, and I'm curious to see how it plays out. I was a bit apprehensive about DoW II before it was released and I ended up loving that so who knows?

 

[Hawki]

Well, ignoring that I don't have a computer that could run it for a moment, looking at the gameplay, it looks...bleh. Very simplified, maps look bland, story seems your standard Dawn of War fare (Space Marines, orks, eldar, clash over something, Chaos will probably show up, blah blah blah), and...yeah.

I've never been that enamored with Dawn of War outside the very first game, but this seems to have stripped out a lot of what made the first game interesting (e.g. the use of terrain and cover), and given us a streamlined experience. It's not a MOBA, and I have nothing against MOBAs, but, well, yeah. I hate the phrase "dumbed down," but this is kind of what it comes off as.

 

[The Madman]

As a big fan of the previous two Dawn of War games... eh, not really.

Looks a little too simplified and streamlined, plus I'm not sure I much like the direction the devs seem to be taking the franchise. To give a few examples: Sync kills are gone because it wasn't good for balancing competitively, as is the cover system from DoW2 for similar reasons. Relic seem to want to make DoW3 a Moba style esports thing, but that's never what the franchise was about for me.

But who knows? Relic have proven to be a damned fine dev in the past so maybe they know what they're doing and once I actually get my hands on the game it will feel great. It could happen.

That announcement trailer is still amazing though:

 

[Zhukov]

That announcement trailer is still amazing though:

Speaking of which, do you know what the prayer/mantra in the trailer's voiceover is? Is it something from the WH40K lore?

I tried googling it, but only got references to that same trailer.

 

[The Madman]

Speaking of which, do you know what the prayer/mantra in the trailer's voiceover is? Is it something from the WH40K lore?

I tried googling it, but only got references to that same trailer.

Not sure, but then outside some video games I'm not huge into the franchise. I'm too poor for the tabletop and even by my standards the books are a bit over-the-top. Those I've tried reading anyway, I've heard some are vastly better than others.

Anyway the voice is Eldar, she's in a couple other DoW3 trailers spouting off mystical gooblegork, but the words could honestly refer to either the Eldar or Space Marines doctrine. I suspect it's just generic badass lines someone cooked up to sound cool.

 

[Jandau]

I'm trying to be optimistic, but I'm not overly excited by anything I've seen thus far. Only three factions, when initial releases of previous games all featured four isn't a great sign, particularly when they pick only the boring ones. Seriously, Orcs? Again? I get Space Marines, they are the flagship faction of the franchise, but Orcs again? And Eldar? Why are the interesting and cool races relegated to expansion packs?

All in all, I'm lukewarm. I loved the first DoW and enjoyed the second, even though it wasn't much of an RTS and more of a RTT game. This, I don't feel great about. Seems less tactical than the second game, less strategic than the first, and then what's left?

As for what I'd do if I were making it? Supreme Commander scale of engagement, WH40k setting. Just imagine. It would be glorious...

 

[Catnip1024]

Nope. The series has been going downhill since Winter Assault. They should have simply had a single player campaign like that for all of the factions.

The first game had genuinely interesting missions, maps designed for missions rather than multiplayer. Then DoW2 took out all the interesting design and left you feeling like you were playing multiplayer vs. Bots.

DoW3 is going to be horrible, and should be purged.

 

[Elijin]

but DoW2: Retribution has campaigns for all of the playable races in the game. I dunno if they're any good, but they're there.

Well, DoW2: Retribution has the exact same campaign, which can be completed with any playable race. Don't get me wrong, I love me some DoW2: Retri, but the campaign is so shallow due to its 'one size fits all races' structure. Not to mention selling someone like Zhukov the idea that each have their own campaign is just going to result in a thread about how lazy and boring the campaign structure of DoW2 retri is, possibly a comment about how its dishonest to present as so many different campaigns, when there isn't.

On the topic of DoW3? I mean, I'm a little excited, but that's because I'm overall less invested than 'real fans'. I don't mind if they try different directions, shake up gameplay between titles or have too much colour in the palette. I'm also not going to buy it for a long time, but that's a hardware issue. Not going to update specifically for this (or any game). When my computer literally catches fire or stops operating and I replace it, I will totally get DoW3.

All that said, I really hope there is a last stand 2.0 mode.

 

[Zhukov]

Not to mention selling someone like Zhukov the idea that each have their own campaign is just going to result in a thread about how lazy and boring the campaign structure of DoW2 retri is, possibly a comment about how its dishonest to present as so many different campaigns, when there isn't

It's ok. I'm so bad at RTSs I probably wouldn't know a quality campaign from a rubbish one anyway.

 

[wings012]

I'm looking forward to DoW3 cause I enjoyed the previous games and I like 40k. Not really cause I'm an RTS fan or anything.

I honestly really enjoyed how DoW2 was more a squad based RPG than an RTS proper. So I'm not sure about the game going back to its roots.

 

[Elijin]

Not to mention selling someone like Zhukov the idea that each have their own campaign is just going to result in a thread about how lazy and boring the campaign structure of DoW2 retri is, possibly a comment about how its dishonest to present as so many different campaigns, when there isn't

It's ok. I'm so bad at RTSs I probably wouldn't know a quality campaign from a rubbish one anyway.

Even if you missed it on your orc playthrough, soon as you booted up the elder playthrough and realized 'these are the exact same missions, in the exact same order, and the only change is what 3 lines of dialogue are being spouted at me for why I'm here, and my unit models!'

The summary I used was fairly valid... you just tend to have less hesitation in making a topic about how horrible you find something than I do ;P


Plus, at the end of the day, I still enjoy the DoW setting and gameplay enough to trudge through it in spite of the glaring flaws. You generally don't seem a fan of 40K though.

 

[Hawki]

Looks at thread...

Okay, it's "orks," not "orcs," damn it! I know the orks can't spell worth a damn, but we humans should be able to!

 

[Zykon TheLich_v1legacy]

Not really an RTS player overall, put DoW 1&2 are probably in my top 5games of the last 10 years in terms of hours played.

Eh...yeah, everything you said seems fairly on the money to me. I've seen a few multpliayer matches on line now and it has not enthused me at all. It looks a hell of a lot like DoW one style gameplay with a few mechanics tweaks, and I find I get bored of the DoW I very quickly now. As someone who became a real fan of DoW2s aesthetic and playstyle (especially multiplayer Elite mod) I'm a bit worried. I was also worried about the DoW1 to 2 changes, but at least DoW2 looked awesome to help me overcome that, this doesn't have that.

Seeing as you watch Elite mod replays you've probably seen Indrid's Impressions of it, but here it is anyway


Has few impressions from some of the top DoW2 players. Given that they are far better and more widely experienced RTS players than me, I'd give their views a read.

Indypride, DoW2 vet and general RTS lover's impressions, also probably more useful than my dribbling:


So in conclusion I would say, "waiting with trepidation" would be the correct phrase.

 

[lionsprey]

That announcement trailer is still amazing though:

Speaking of which, do you know what the prayer/mantra in the trailer's voiceover is? Is it something from the WH40K lore?

I tried googling it, but only got references to that same trailer.

it sounds like just a generic thing made up for the trailer. nothing in it that would make me think its a known mantra at least.

Looks at thread...

Okay, it's "orks," not "orcs," damn it! I know the orks can't spell worth a damn, but we humans should be able to!

hey! Orks are able to spell words in greenskinish perfectly well ( since it consists mostly of pictures).

I'm waiting for the verdict on Dawn of war 3 before i let myself get excited. but nothing i've seen so far gave me the impression its going to be the greatest game ever.

 

[Zhukov]

Plus, at the end of the day, I still enjoy the DoW setting and gameplay enough to trudge through it in spite of the glaring flaws. You generally don't seem a fan of 40K though.

Ehhhh, I go back and forth.

I used to despise the 40K setting. Having found out a bit more I can partly see the appeal. Plenty of the elements in it are cool. However it often comes across as trying way too hard to make its various characters badass. When it seems like every second character is capable of cutting their way through entire armies or whatever then it's hard to react with anything other than a roll of the eyes.

I would happily, say, watch an animated movie or read a comic in the setting. Doubt I would trust the novels to be any good though.

I'd like it so much more if it wasn't 70% focussed on jerking off the space marines.

Seeing as you watch Elite mod replays you've probably seen Indrid's Impressions of it, but here it is anyway

Yeah, it was stumbling across his channel that got me into it.

 

[Sonicron]

Well, I'm very much looking forward to it. Both main installments to the series so far had a distinctly different look, but I loved them both in their own way. (Besides, while DoW1 was classic RTS, DoW2 actually accurately advertised itself as RTT.)
I'm a big lore nerd, and if I get a cool story combined with at least middling gameplay I'll probably be happy. I'm willing to give Relic the benefit of the doubt, because so far they've never let me down.
Also, the massive battles this time around reflect the scale W40k often tries to communicate to readers and players - you know, everything gets turned up to 11. Might not fit crazy well with Space Marines (unless Gabriel Angelos decides to commit his entire chapter to a single operation this time around), seeing how they are supposed to be rather limited in terms of numbers, but we'll see what they came up with.

I used to despise the 40K setting. Having found out a bit more I can partly see the appeal. Plenty of the elements in it are cool. However it often comes across as trying way too hard to make its various characters badass. When it seems like every second character is capable of cutting their way through entire armies or whatever then it's hard to react with anything other than a roll of the eyes.

I would happily, say, watch an animated movie or read a comic in the setting. Doubt I would trust the novels to be any good though.

In case you haven't already done so, I think you might enjoy reading the Ciaphas Cain novels. It's basically the comedy branch of W40k, about a commissar who just wants his job to be safe and uneventful, yet while attempting to cowardly evade major crises somehow manages to strike such horrendous blows to enemy forces that he unwittingly becomes a bona fide hero of the Imperium - which gets him sent to all the dangerous places he'd really rather avoid. The books are written in 1st-person perspective and presented as his collected memoirs, looking back on a crazy-ass career.

As for comics, most of them are fine, if mediocre. However, there's one of them I absolutely adore; it shows the setting and how things work in it in great detail, and its main character actually comes across as flawed and vulnerable despite being a battle-hardened Marine. It's called Damnation Crusade, and it's well worth a read if you can pick up a copy.

 

[Worgen]

Looks pretty damn cool to me. I really enjoyed the first 2 games and I'm liking the look of this one. I'll miss the cover system from 2 but if I want to play dow2, then Ill just play dow2. I think the walkers look pretty awesome and entirely too many people don't seem to remember how much the series was based on hero units, giant units and such before, or that despite the grindarkness, the 40 universe was still pretty colorful.

I think the multi looks pretty fun, I'll probably give it a shot. But, I don't really have the temperament for normal multi in rts games.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

I just care about the campaigns for Dawn of War 3. Don't care too much about RTS multiplayer.