Are transgenderism and transsexuality mental illnesses?

[s0denone]

I know the title might be triggering to some, but hear me out for a moment.

I feel I should preface the question by also stating that I feel everyone should be treated the same and afforded the same rights. An ideal world is a world completely devoid of persecution of any kind. A transgender person should be called by their chosen gender and receive exactly the same treatment as everyone else.

Now:
I think identifying as transgender might be a mental illness for the same reason homosexuality is not. You do not "treat" homosexuality, but you "treat" transsexuality.
I know there are some people who are content without hormone treatment and operations and being called simply by the right "he" or "she" word, but let's go by the more general definition of a transsexual: Someone who wishes with all their heart, that their body would be that of the other sex, because they simply do not feel that they belong in the body in which they were born.

Utopian scenario:
A homosexual is afforded the same respect as everyone else. No discrimination. The homosexual is as happy as everyone else.

A transsexual is afforded the same respect as everyone else. No discrimination. While the transsexual might be happy with their situation, they are still not content within their own body and require treatment to better their mental health.

Again I must stress me having these thoughts does not mean I advocate some form of discrimination or bullying - quite the contrary; but I am asking it simply because I am curious about your thoughts.

What are your thoughts? Is this all meaningless or is it a valid discussion?

I would add that me thinking "transsexualism" to be mentally damaging to the owner and requiring of treatment doesn't make any transsexual worth less in my eyes. I think, on the other hand, that it would be helpful to make the classification which would potentially help family and friends to reach out for treatment while a child is still young to help them fulfill their desires and attain more happiness in their life.

 

[Chairman Miaow]

Wow, that's a hot load of clickbait, devoid of anything like support. You're also not being subtle with your digs here, or what you want out of this. Which is a fight, not an "Off topic discussion".

And people accused me of shitposting in GGG!

What digs? Practically every other sentence is talking about people identifying as transgender not being bullied or treated other than equal

 

[sanquin]

A transsexual's brain is more like that of a woman's than your average male. (or the other way around of course.) So I'd say it's more of a defect defect than a mental illness. Don't get me wrong, that does not mean transsexuals are bad or should be treated differently in any way. In fact, I myself am one. (I just decided to stay male after years of therapy and taking a hard look at myself and my situation.) But I dislike people that try to make it into something that it's not, just to be able to use nicer words to describe transsexuals.

That being said, many transsexuals probably aren't even content with what basically amounts to plastic surgery. As that's what it is. You make your outside appearance look like the opposite gender. But the inside is still male. Something medical science can't change yet.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

No. For the simple fact that "treating" a trans person doesn't involve "treating" the mind. Thus, it is not a mental illness.

Obviously. Did you read your thread title?

 

[Silvanus]

It is not a mental illness. The DSM does not define it as one [http://www.dsm5.org/documents/gender%20dysphoria%20fact%20sheet.pdf], but more importantly, it doesn't fit the criteria.

you "treat" transsexuality.

Usually by addressing the body, not the mind. There's medical consensus that reassignment surgery is generally the best course of action.

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/157/2/261.short

"Although the groups were similar initially, significant differences between them emerged at follow-up in terms of neuroticism and social and sexual activity, with benefits being enjoyed by the operated group."

http://www.nature.com/nrurol/journal/v8/n5/abs/nrurol.2011.46.html

"Gender reassignment (which includes psychotherapy, hormonal therapy and surgery) has been demonstrated as the most effective treatment for patients affected by gender dysphoria (or gender identity disorder) [...]

http://www.jaacap.com/article/S0890-8567(09)62807-0/abstract

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1024086814364

"Participants reported overwhelmingly that they were happy with their SRS results and that SRS had greatly improved the quality of their lives. None reported outright regret and only a few expressed even occasional regret. Dissatisfaction was most strongly associated with unsatisfactory physical and functional results of surgery."

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-005-7926-5#page-1

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01542484#page-1

Allowing for the restrictive methodology of the (ex post facto) study, it is concluded that there is no reason to doubt the therapeutic effect of sex reassignment surgery.

 

[FalloutJack]

For the same reasons Autism is not an illness, I would say no.

 

[Chairman Miaow]

For the same reasons Autism is not an illness, I would say no.

Why isn't autism an illness? I'm autistic and curious.

 

[Chairman Miaow]

No. For the simple fact that "treating" a trans person doesn't involve "treating" the mind. Thus, it is not a mental illness.

Obviously. Did you read your thread title?

Isn't that what therapy is?

 

[kurupt87]

If you want to be the opposite sex because you're "actually sex A trapped in the body of sex B" then I wouldn't trust you with a pair of scissors.

If you want to be the opposite sex because (eg m2f) you want to be pretty and woman are prettier than men then fine, scissor away.

 

[FalloutJack]

For the same reasons Autism is not an illness, I would say no.

Why isn't autism an illness? I'm autistic and curious.

Well, I'm Autistic and I don't feel ill. Or, to put it in less flippant terms, Autism is a different orientation of the brain - it functions differently, and indeed differently from case to case - but I have never felt that this was illness, only different. Now, some of us are more able to take on the world than others, and severe autistics have it really hard, but the term I'm looking for here is mental state, as in state of being. It does not alter like PTSD or overcoming a phobia. And while either of those CAN be permanent to some, that is not always the case. I have never heard of a case where an Autistic has stopped being one. Adapted to life, certainly, but do we ever stop being who we are?

 

[Chairman Miaow]

For the same reasons Autism is not an illness, I would say no.

Why isn't autism an illness? I'm autistic and curious.

Well, I'm Autistic and I don't feel ill. Or, to put it in less flippant terms, Autism is a different orientation of the brain - it functions differently, and indeed differently from case to case - but I have never felt that this was illness, only different. Now, some of us are more able to take on the world than others, and severe autistics have it really hard, but the term I'm looking for here is mental state, as in state of being. It does not alter like PTSD or overcoming a phobia. And while either of those CAN be permanent to some, that is not always the case. I have never heard of a case where an Autistic has stopped being one. Adapted to life, certainly, do we ever stop being who we are?

I hadn't thought of it like that. Don't people call Depression with a capital D a mental illness though and that never goes away? and I don't think there is any denying that autism will negatively impact the lives of those who have it.

 

[DefunctTheory]

The DSM defines a mental illness (Called a Mental Disorder) as a psychological syndrome or pattern that results in distress, pain, or disability, excluding the obvious stuff like grief. So I can see how one might think its a mental illness. However...

No. For the simple fact that "treating" a trans person doesn't involve "treating" the mind. Thus, it is not a mental illness.

Transgenderism appears to be a physical problem. The problem is its neurological, which many people confuse with 'psychological,' which it isn't.

Currently, in the first world, the only function psychology has in transgenderism is to verify the issue is indeed not psychological, and to help those individuals inflicted deal with the secondary problems related to transgenderism (Like depression caused by being surrounded by a culture that seems to think you're mentally ill/in the thrall of Satan).

For the same reasons Autism is not an illness, I would say no.

Autism is a mental disorder. It's a mental disability. The fact that many, or maybe even most, can lead normal lives is completely secondary.

To put it in physical terms, just because someone can lead a normal life with prosthetics after losing a leg doesn't mean they've been made whole again. It just means their particular brand of cripple is largely inconsequential.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

For the same reasons Autism is not an illness, I would say no.

Why isn't autism an illness? I'm autistic and curious.

Well, I'm Autistic and I don't feel ill. Or, to put it in less flippant terms, Autism is a different orientation of the brain - it functions differently, and indeed differently from case to case - but I have never felt that this was illness, only different. Now, some of us are more able to take on the world than others, and severe autistics have it really hard, but the term I'm looking for here is mental state, as in state of being. It does not alter like PTSD or overcoming a phobia. And while either of those CAN be permanent to some, that is not always the case. I have never heard of a case where an Autistic has stopped being one. Adapted to life, certainly, do we ever stop being who we are?

I hadn't thought of it like that. Don't people call Depression with a capital D a mental illness though and that never goes away? and I don't think there is any denying that autism will negatively impact the lives of those who have it.

Mostly no. With depression, it's kinda like diabetes: If you have diabetes, you still have a pancreas, it just doesn't work.

That's different than just not having a pancreas at all, and instead regulated blood sugar a different way entirely.

 

[FalloutJack]

For the same reasons Autism is not an illness, I would say no.

Why isn't autism an illness? I'm autistic and curious.

Well, I'm Autistic and I don't feel ill. Or, to put it in less flippant terms, Autism is a different orientation of the brain - it functions differently, and indeed differently from case to case - but I have never felt that this was illness, only different. Now, some of us are more able to take on the world than others, and severe autistics have it really hard, but the term I'm looking for here is mental state, as in state of being. It does not alter like PTSD or overcoming a phobia. And while either of those CAN be permanent to some, that is not always the case. I have never heard of a case where an Autistic has stopped being one. Adapted to life, certainly, do we ever stop being who we are?

I hadn't thought of it like that. Don't people call Depression with a capital D a mental illness though and that never goes away? and I don't think there is any denying that autism will negatively impact the lives of those who have it.

People do, and I've often wondered about that, because you can treat the symptom, but the one that has more to do with brain chemistry and less with personal issues apparently will never stop either. I have never managed to become depressed over things in any proper fashion. I think I'm missing the faculty. (Sadness, yes. Meloncholy, no.) Still, the impact is something you can only measure on a case-by-case basis. Severe Autism will hinder normal life processes, unfortunately. The input and output of one such person is radically different from the norm. They're in there, but it's not the same for them as it would be for even me. I'm closer to the other end of the scale, so the issues are minor-to-not-there, and I enjoy a different perspective from others that has, on occasion, opened up some clever insights. It may be no better or worse than the personalities of non-autistics.

 

[Something Amyss]

Hm. Well, I could look at a virtual consensus in the mental health community, and a large body of medical work, that says it is.

Or I could listen to the opionions of someone online who has, as far as I can tell, neither the power to diagnose nor a very solid understanding of what a mental illness is.

I mean, you're free to your opinion, but you're literally at odds with the experts.

 

[Gengisgame]

You've had Dr Paul McHugh call it a mental disorder and you've had others claim it isn't, like most LGBT issues it's politically charged so always take findings with a grain of salt.

You will always get some abnormalities when giving birth but you would need to be ignorant of the world to think that in some cases it's not a case of mental illness, most likely a symptom of something else, I expect some do it out of loneliness.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

You've had Dr Paul McHugh call it a mental disorder and you've had others claim it isn't, like most LGBT issues it's politically charged so always take findings with a grain of salt.

You will always get some abnormalities when giving birth but you would need to be ignorant of the world to think that in some cases it's not a case of mental illness, most likely a symptom of something else, I expect some do it out of loneliness.

So you cite one Doctor that calls it a mental illness, which goes against the findings of the vast majority of his own peers. That's not a good starting place. Considering that doctors of psychiatry who hold fast to the notion that "transgenderism is a mental disorder" also back the idea of "conversion therapy". "Conversion therapy" is provably bunk, it doesn't work, it's also proven to be abusive and is being banned all over the world... So any one who calls transgenderism a mental disorder who is a psychiatrist is either pushing a religious line, because that's who thinks conversion is important, is a quack, or is woefully ignorant on the subject. In the first two cases those psychiatrists need their licenses revoked, because the first is a conflict of interest, the second is malpractice. In the last case any doctor who is ignorant on a particular issue, should know better than to try to speak on it.

Also the DSM-V says that transgenderism is not a mental disorder, they base their diagnostic information the majority findings from the psychiatric professionals around the world. Saying "in some cases it's a mental illness" is exactly counter to what the vast majority of professionals have found. I'm going to trust the professionals, not some random unaccredited person on the internet. Saying that some people are trans because of loneliness is staggeringly ignorant and absolutely wrong.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

I know the title might be triggering to some, but hear me out for a moment.

I feel I should preface the question by also stating that I feel everyone should be treated the same and afforded the same rights. An ideal world is a world completely devoid of persecution of any kind. A transgender person should be called by their chosen gender and receive exactly the same treatment as everyone else.

It's really too bad we don't live in an ideal world, because if you look what a bunch of states are trying to do, they're actually trying to criminalize trans folk. Then again Michigan's state senate just passed a law that bans sodomy, which is unconstitutional, because the Supreme Court of the United States(SCotUS) has ruled all anti-sodomy laws to be unconstitutional. This backlash is though tied to the GOP revving it's religious conservative base, as well as a push back by idiots against same-sex marriage being ruled legal in all 50 states by the SCotUS.

Now:
I think identifying as transgender might be a mental illness for the same reason homosexuality is not. You do not "treat" homosexuality, but you "treat" transsexuality.
I know there are some people who are content without hormone treatment and operations and being called simply by the right "he" or "she" word, but let's go by the more general definition of a transsexual: Someone who wishes with all their heart, that their body would be that of the other sex, because they simply do not feel that they belong in the body in which they were born.

The thing is with gender dysphoria is you treat the body, not the mind. Also a lot of homosexual, bisexual and all other variant sexualities tend to suffer a lot of the same mental disorders that trans folk tend to. Those are the likes of depression, suicidal thoughts and actions, bi-polar disorder, anxiety, and several others, including psychotic episodes. Technically a lot of folk who are homosexual, bisexual, asexual, pansexual, and such seek psychological therapy, because they often have issues about their sexuality. This is because of how society treats LGBTIQ+ folk, more than it is about variant sexuality and variant gender identity being mental disorders. Gender and Sexuality Minorities(GSM) experience a lot of ostracism, shaming, and discrimination, especially from our families and friends, that causes a lot of longterm problems psychologically. Also homosexuality and heterosexuality and all sexuality has a "treatment" in it's own way, that treatment is finding a partner, or partners who you're attracted to. Although in the case of asexuals, it's finding a partner, or partners who you have romantic feelings for. That's not a strictly medical treatment, but it is treating one's sexuality by having a partner, or partners, or in some cases not having romantic, or sexual relationships.

Utopian scenario:
A homosexual is afforded the same respect as everyone else. No discrimination. The homosexual is as happy as everyone else.

A transsexual is afforded the same respect as everyone else. No discrimination. While the transsexual might be happy with their situation, they are still not content within their own body and require treatment to better their mental health.

A true Utopian scenario is one where everyone is respected and there is no discrimination or bis against people for: Religion, sex, gender identity, sexuality, ethnic origin, physical disabilities, mental disabilities, mental illnesses and disorders. It's just too bad that world doesn't exist and that it probably never will.

Again I must stress me having these thoughts does not mean I advocate some form of discrimination or bullying - quite the contrary; but I am asking it simply because I am curious about your thoughts.

While you're not meaning to discriminate, or bully, nor are you advocating for such things... You are, through a misinformed viewpoint, attaching additional stigma to trans folk, an already extremely stigmatized group. You might have good intentions, but good intentions often cause more harm than good.

What are your thoughts? Is this all meaningless or is it a valid discussion?

What we're getting into here is what's called "armchair psychology", which is counter productive and usually completely wrong in it's assertions. These subjects are best left to the professionals, of whom the majority say that gender dysphoria and transgenderism are not mental illnesses.

I would add that me thinking "transsexualism" to be mentally damaging to the owner and requiring of treatment doesn't make any transsexual worth less in my eyes. I think, on the other hand, that it would be helpful to make the classification which would potentially help family and friends to reach out for treatment while a child is still young to help them fulfill their desires and attain more happiness in their life.

The problem is that classifying transgenderism and gender dysphoria as mental disorder, or mental illness, does not help, it doesn't help at all. It actually makes things worse, because of the stigmas attached to mental illness. What this classification has already done is make trans folk a whole lot less accepted, because the majority of people, who are ignorant to mental illness, see it as dangerous.

On a side note: I'm not sure where you live, but in most of the English speaking world, the term "transsexual" is considered to have bad connotations and baggage attached. It's also considered incorrect, because you can't change someone's biological sex phenotype. The accepted term anymore is "transgender", which covers a wide spectrum of gender variant and gender non-conforming people.