Are you tired of SJW?

[Mossberg Shotty]

Let me start off by saying that I'm not prejudice against anyone in particular.

I'm a white male who lives in Texas (not the most open-minded of places) and I've faced my share of discrimination. I've been called a "fag" for having long hair/piercings and that type of thing. I've also been called a "freak" for my various tattoos and beliefs, but I still can't help but think things have gone too far.

Like Jim Sterling said, SJW is a label that gets slapped on just about anyone who goes against the flow these days, but come the fuck on. I'm a fairly liberal guy, but I still can't help but be disgusted by the amount of people who get offended by next to nothing now days. It's almost as if people just camp out at their keyboards waiting for something to get offended at. If something comes off as even vaguely exclusionary/insensitive to every single subculture, it basically get's stoned until it's forced to change.

I understand that there are a lot of intolerant people out there, but they are now in the minority. You won. But it feels like you can't say anything without earning the ire of some lesbian/gay pagan feminist keyboard warrior. Have you never stepped outside of your house and seen how people behave outside of the online community? Do you not understand the disconnect between real life and the internet?

This is the most liberal website I've ever come across, so I expect the responses will be a mixed bag. And yes, I'm not oblivious to the irony of making a thread complaining about the SJW movement, than the actual movement itself. But how much is enough?

Please keep things civil and stay on topic.

 

[shrekfan246]

Considering the complete and total lack of those extremist "SJWs" who are apparently calling for the complete destruction of everything they deem "problematic" on this website, and the fact that I rarely regularly visit other websites that aren't Youtube...

I'll have to go with "Nope".

I'm more tired of the people who seem to be utterly paranoid that "SJWs" are going to "ruin" gaming.

Don't get me wrong, I've seen some of the hilarious things said on Tumblr and some of the horrifying things said on Twitter, but people who think those people are ever going to seriously have an impact on the video game industry need a wake-up call something fierce.

 

[lacktheknack]

There aren't any here.

No one is going to get upset with you here because you say you dislike Anita Sarkeesian and don't give reasons. This is apparently a "trademark" of an SJW.

However, many people here will get upset with you if you say you DO like her and don't give reasons.

Christ, if THIS is the most liberal website you've ever encountered...

 

[Aurion]

Tired of the whole goddamn argument rather than just the SJW thing, myself. All that happens is circular arguments and incoherent shrieking about feminazis and/or misogynists.

I play games, to, well, escape. I really don't need the same sort of dreck that I read on CNN/FOX/MSNBC/etc clogging up my hobbies as well.

It'd be one thing if people were capable of having a reasoned, intelligent discussion of gender issues...but almost no one is.

 

[Mossberg Shotty]

Snip

I'm hardly paranoid. I see it happening everywhere. Malaysians Airlines were recently forced to scrap their 'bucket list' promotion because so many people complained about the term 'bucket list' being associated with death and flying. I never said anything about feminists/ what have you ruining so and so, I'm just talking about how almost everything has become taboo because of internet extremists. Please don't intentionally misrepresent me.

There aren't any here.

No one is going to get upset with you here because you say you dislike Anita Sarkeesian and don't give reasons. This is apparently a "trademark" of an SJW.

However, many people here will get upset with you if you say you DO like her and don't give reasons.

Christ, if THIS is the most liberal website you've ever encountered...

Actually I've gotten a lot of hate for saying that very thing, on this very site. But I didn't even bring up Anita Sarkeesian, I'm not trying to point the finger at anyone here. This is more of a state of mind than a single person. Mr. Knack, you've always struck me as a well-rounded individual, how can you say there 'aren't any here' when most people can't even open their mouths without being shut down by those who would rather censor the other half of the discussion than talk about it rationally?

 

[shrekfan246]

Snip

I'm hardly paranoid. I see it happening everywhere. Malaysians Airlines were recently forced to scrap their 'bucket list' promotion because so many people complained about the term 'bucket list' being associated with death and flying. I never said anything about feminists/ what have you ruining so and so, I'm just talking about how almost everything has become taboo because of internet extremists. Please don't intentionally misrepresent me.

I wasn't talking specifically about you.

My use of "the people who seem to be" was meant as clarification in that regard.

And to be perfectly honest, maybe this is because I'm just not a very radical person myself or perhaps it's brought on by the simple fact that I try to expose myself to as little internet crazy as I can on a daily basis, but I've never felt that anything I wanted to discuss or say in a discussion would be viewed as "taboo". And even if it was, why should I give a single crap about what "internet extremists" are going to think of it, when their immediate reaction has in the past been to label me as a "white knight" simply for not immediately expressing agreement toward their ideals?

That's not civil discourse, and as such I don't need to concern myself with it. My condolences go out to people who are legitimately being affected by both the 'PC' crowd and the 'anti-PC' crowd, but quite frankly I have enough to worry about in my own daily life that I can't really muster up the effort to get outraged at people who were outraged by the use of the term "bucket list". I'm not in a position to change what they're doing nor help the people they're hurting, so really all I can do is offer my anonymous sympathy.

EDIT: To clarify again, my complacency only extends insofar as I typically view it to be futile to try engaging "extremists" in the first place. If I'm already engaged in a discussion, I'll try to calm people down from using hyperbolic extremist language, but it has proven to rarely ever have any actual impact in the past so my resolve for internet "debates" has been worn pretty thin over the past few years.

 

[lacktheknack]

There aren't any here.

No one is going to get upset with you here because you say you dislike Anita Sarkeesian and don't give reasons. This is apparently a "trademark" of an SJW.

However, many people here will get upset with you if you say you DO like her and don't give reasons.

Christ, if THIS is the most liberal website you've ever encountered...

Actually I've gotten a lot of hate for saying that very thing, on this very site. But I didn't even bring up Anita Sarkeesian, I'm not trying to point the finger at anyone here. This is more of a state of mind than a single person. Mr. Knack, you've always struck me as a well-rounded individual, how can you say there 'aren't any here' when most people can't even open their mouths without being shut down by those who would rather censor the other half of the discussion than talk about it rationally?

I've never, ever seen it here.

Ever.

Every time I enter a Sarkeesian thread, the instigator of a fight is ALWAYS someone raging that she's doing something completely wrong. I've said many times that "Eh, I'm not a fan of her in general" with little else and never gotten quoted on it for any reason.

Also, shouting someone down isn't "censoring" them.

 

[JoJo]

I like to think the battle is going our way but it's nowhere near won yet. To take LGBT rights for example, same-sex marriage is still illegal in the majority of U.S. states and European countries, let alone the rest of the world where being gay is still illegal in many places. I'm proud that my home nation England is one of the few who do allow equal marriage rights but even that doesn't mean the fight is over, there are plenty of prejudiced attitudes still flying around even if legal equality has been obtained. Of course, I too roll my eyes at some of the silly things people find to be offended by (e.g. 'cultural appropriation') but there's no reason to throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[gandhi the peacemake]

The thing is, see, that "Social Justice Warrior" is whatever you, the person using it, make it out to be. It certainly doesn't apply to feminists, because feminists are feminists, nor people of color, because the same, nor . The only ones who sling the phrase "SJW" around are those who have problems with SJWs, and they can never seem to give a precise definition of just what they refer to by the term.

For instance, from my reading of your post, SJW can mean any of three things:
- "people who get offended by next to nothing"
- "people [who] just camp out at their keyboards waiting for something to get offended at"
- "lesbian/gay pagan feminist keyboard warrior"

Which of those three, if any, would be the correct definition of SJW?

In regards to just one of the other points made (because frankly, I've gotten exhausted of responding to these same tired and, frankly, ignorant arguments over and over again):

I understand that there are a lot of intolerant people out there, but they are now in the minority. You won.

In response to this assertion, I'd ask what it is that anybody is supposed to have "won," because "making intolerant people the minority" certainly doesn't seem to be the end-goal of many of these movements you may or may not have lumped under the SJW banner.

And quickly, in reference to your last paragraph, two things: 1.) Your example of irony is not, in fact, an example of irony; and 2.) "How much is enough?" assumes that there's some sort of arbitrary number being negotiated for. Is this the case?

 

[Weaver]

I just don't even care about this anymore. I have my opinions, other people have opinions I agree or disagree with.

If your personal reaction to every headline or every announcement a developer or publisher makes is moral outrage I personally think you're being silly. But whatever, it's your life.

I also hate the 'SJW group' being grouped in as anyone left of American republicans. I'm fucking left wing for Canadian politics but I even I generally disagree with with their side of things.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

The problem with the term SJW and those that self identify as such isn't the 'social' or 'justice' aspects. Its the warrior mentality. This Us Vs. Them idea, where every issue is a war and every interchange a battle. Its not enough to simply not play a game you don't like. No, the 'warrior' must take to the field, fight against it, and anyone who defends said game is an enemy. Its a fascist concept. Its paints everything in black/white, us vs them. No gray, no shades. The wrong vs the right in open battle. No room for compromise or understanding.

So I'd advise anyone who sees themselves as a Social Justice Warrior to drop warrior and add Person. A Social Justice Person. A person can be reasoned with, can see both sides of an issue, can compromise, show compassion and change opinions based on credible evidence.

A warrior only knows how to fight, and usually at the behest of someone else. Messy business that.

 

[Mossberg Shotty]

Snip

I think I've gone and misrepresented myself a bit, and I'm sorry about that. I'm in support of gay marriage (and please take a second to think of where I'm from, and all the black eyes I've gotten from defending the right's of such people) I'm a Christian, always have been, I even have a giant cross tattoo that covers my entire left forearm. But I firmly believe that love is a beautiful thing, and if two men/women are lucky enough to find it, then they should have every right to be with each other. Regardless of what someone believes, if they begin to tell other's who they can and can't be with, they're a fucking tyrant, and I have no patience for them.

Actually this is kinda the exact behavior I'm trying to single out. All I have to do is say 'SJW' and you assume I'm against gays. That's not the case. I know there are genuinely good, beautiful people who face discrimination for stupid reasons like being gay and such. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm speaking of people who insist on being offended no matter what the context, when in reality they're doing more to hinder social justice with their radical beliefs that promote it.

 

[Mossberg Shotty]

The thing is, see, that "Social Justice Warrior" is whatever you, the person using it, make it out to be. It certainly doesn't apply to feminists, because feminists are feminists, nor people of color, because the same, nor . The only ones who sling the phrase "SJW" around are those who have problems with SJWs, and they can never seem to give a precise definition of just what they refer to by the term.

Thank you for pointing that out, and representing exactly what I'm trying to do away with. I already mentioned that the term 'SJW' is being so abused that if it were a puppy I would call the ASPCA. I don't use the term lightly, slapping it onto whoever I disagree with, I disagree with misogynists, racists and other splinter groups, but you won't hear me calling the Social Justice Warriors. If that's the big issue you have, let me give you my precise definition of what a 'SJW' is.

One who is offended by any headline that does not pander to their particular sub culture, pansexual, pagan, goat worshipper, whatever the fuck have you.

And yes, that seems to be exactly what most SJW strive for. You disagree, you get shamed into stop speaking. Try broadening your horizons.

 

[gandhi the peacemake]

Thank you for pointing that out, and representing exactly what I'm trying to do away with.

I'm confused. Are you criticizing the use of the term SJW by those who are against SJWs, or are you criticizing those defined as SJWs?

Your original post rhetoric indicated that it was largely the latter, with a bit of the former. In other words, "SJWs need to take a step back and calm down, and those who dislike SJWs need to stop using the term all willy-nilly."

This, of course, is coming from my experience with the term. To wit, I've only ever heard SJW used as a derogatory name for those people who argue for better female/PoC/LGBTQ/etc. representation and rights. The ones who "get offended by next to nothing" are the ones called SJWs, and the ones who don't are the ones doing the labeling.

 

[Mossberg Shotty]

Thank you for pointing that out, and representing exactly what I'm trying to do away with.

I'm confused. Are you criticizing the use of the term SJW by those who are against SJWs, or are you criticizing those defined as SJWs?

Your original post rhetoric indicated that it was largely the latter, with a bit of the former. In other words, "SJWs need to take a step back and calm down, and those who dislike SJWs need to stop using the term all willy-nilly."

This, of course, is coming from my experience with the term. To wit, I've only ever heard SJW used as a derogatory name for those people who argue for better female/PoC/LGBTQ/etc. representation and rights. The ones who "get offended by next to nothing" are the ones called SJWs, and the ones who don't are the ones doing the labeling.

I think the term is being misused by both sides. If you've only heard it used as a derogatory term, I'm assuming you've only been exposed to one side of the argument. And that's fine, most have been, it's not exactly an inclusionary term. If you weren't too lazy to read my previous posts you would know that I don't have anything against the LGBT crowd (though I think they can be a bit too sensitive). I'm just tired of coming under fire for any opinions I have that don't fall under the almighty banner of subculture acceptance of everybody everywhere who ever lived.

If I had to sum up my opinions in just a few thoughts, it would be this: Thicken up your skin, and accept the fact that not everybody who disagrees with you in the slightest wants to wipe you and your ideals off the face of the earth. Grow the fuck up and understand that acceptance is a two way street.

 

[Skatologist]

Yep, as a term basically, throw in "white knight" and "femenazi" too and heck, throw in the misuse of MRA for people who are just anti feminists (although I will state, it's a bit hard to distinguish between the two other than one willing to take the 1st label). Anti feminists and those dominating much of internet space are saying "SJWs" are misusing words like misogyny, sexist, racist, homophobic, victim blaming, etc. to essentially silence and discredit the voice of opposition, but I can't help but see a small hint of hypocrisy when so many of them write someone else of as a SJW, white knight, femenazi, pc police, or any of there other terms to do something similar.

 

[Vault101]

Put it this way

All the bullshit behaviour I've seen? It hasn't come from the "feminazis" or the "SJW" (assuming thease types if people actually exist) it's come from people who throw around those terms...who use them without even know what the hell they're talking about

Quite frankly "gamers" deserve all the criticism they get

 

[Mossberg Shotty]

I really thought Jim put this to bed. His video was really well done -- and I don't even like his content as a rule.

Nothing ever gets put to bed, isn't that the beauty of the internet? As a rule of thumb, I don't listen to Jim Sterling (I don't mean that in a literal sense, I listen to him simply to hear him out, but I don't usually take his word as the truth.) To be honest, I find him rather grotesque and misinformed, but I actually ended up siding with him on his latest SJW video.

But just because someone makes a good point doesn't mean the fools of the world will stop preaching their bullshit.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

Not particularly. Sarkeesian's videos are actually kinda tame (if a bit misinformed) and I rarely see criticisms that openly bother me.

I'm more annoyed at the constant toxic drama that's going on. The elitism and harassment in the gaming media is exhausting.

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