Arguments used to defend games/movies etc. you're tired of seeing

[bartholen_v1legacy]

After browsing through this thread [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.836116-Criticisms-youre-sick-of-seeing-in-a-film-story?page=3] and failing to come up with any but coming up with a lot of the opposite, I decided to do this thread. I think the title is explanatory enough.

My absolute #1 pick would be "Duh, you just don't get it". Fuck you you smug prick! I may not get it, but if I find a whole bunch of other things to criticize about it, you can't just dismiss those with that stupider-than-fuck argument. The first thing that comes to mind whenever I see this anywhere is a fat neckbeard who copypastes whatever Wikipedia articles on existentialism or whatever -ism is the trend of the day to make himself seem smart and educated. And it seems whenever people who make this argument are asked to answer legitimate criticisms or explain that incredibly complex thing only they get, they never manage to do so, instead continuing their dismissal and smugness. Judging by the IMDB boards (a hellish hole of blackness and despair), The Counselor would seem the latest example of this kind of film.

Other favorites include "Well it's just a dumb action movie, some people like that!" Yes, but being dumb doesn't excuse you for being sexist, offensive, incomprehensible and overly long (I'm looking at you, Transformers) and "But it's by [insert acclaimed director/writer here]! It can't be bad!" Yes it most definitely can, eg. Inglorious Basterds and Death Proof.

 

[Pink Gregory]

So what do we actually gain by refuting other people's criticisms? I don't care if you thought something with nonsensical or pretentious, it meant something to *me*.

 

[Elfgore]

But I liked transformers...

Anyway, one that always gets me is "It's different than the original source" It could be a manga, novel, VN, etc. I really don't care. Was the movie good? Did I understand what was happening? That's all I care about.

 

[Generalissimo]

"if you don't like it don't watch it" it's such a cop out non-answer that annoys me immensly

 

[Vegosiux]

You know which one really clips my begonias?

"Everyone's doing it!"

Yeah, well, allow me to make my own decisions, please? I mean, if all my friends are jumping off a bridge, I'll check why they're jumping off the bridge before jumping myself.

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

"You don't get it."

Mostly, I hate hearing that when I don't like a movie that is "deep". No, I do "get it". I just don't like it. Let's take The Godfather as an example. I'm not saying that it was bad. Maybe my expectations were a bit high going into it, though. In the end, I saw a pretty good drama, with great acting, that was too long for its own good.

Now, I've had several people break down all the symbolism, all the character interactions, irony, and what-have-you to explain to me how I "don't get it". Thing is, I did get it. I just didn't like it unconditionally.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

"if you don't like it don't watch it" it's such a cop out non-answer that annoys me immensly

Urg, I hate this. I equate somebody using this as me winning the argument due to how cop-out it is.

The other is "well, why don't you make a better book/movie/video/picture/etc..", it's pulling stuff out of your ass because you don't know how to argue.

 

[Phasmal]

`But the ARTIIIIIIIISTS wanted it this way!`
Specifically about games. If you think every choice is the direct opinion of an artist due to `art`and staying true to their vision then you are seriously deluded. I do feel sorry for the people making games when they're being told what to do by people who don't know their arse from a hole in the ground (tacked-on multiplayer, anyone?), but to pretend it's not happening is just ignorance.

`Why do you HATE X?`
Criticism is not hate.
I see it this way, you can love something completely and still not have to love everything about it.

 

[bug_of_war]

"You just don't get the message it's trying to get across"

I don't care about the message, the movie itself was shit.

 

[Aerosteam]

"It's free! They're spending hours/days of their time to entertain you for free!"

Damn it, just because it's free doesn't mean I'm not allow to hate it. I go by this: Someone hands me a drink and a take some. I think it tastes like crap. How could I be mad at the other person? They handed me a drink for free! Sure, they did, but I got nothing but a bad taste from it.

"They don't have the budget and/or people!"

If you can't achieve something with the resources you have then don't try to do it, scale it down. All you're going to get is something which is worse than it could have been.

Both of these go for what I've seen people have said about RoosterTeeth's RWBY.

 

[Islandbuffilo]

"Its unique, therefor it's good." and my favorite "It sold umpteen million copies, so it must be good."

Mob mentality is really something.

 

[MysticSlayer]

"You just can't handle a complex story."
Translation: "I'm smart. You're dumb. And this proves it."
Man, did I get told that a lot after Infinite released. I don't really care if someone actually tries to defend the film/book/game/etc. from criticisms regardless its inconsistencies, plot holes, and/or poor writing, and I actually enjoy it so that I can understand how people find enjoyment in that product, even if I still don't agree with them in the end. However, if they just claim it is complex and leave it at that, then they are just being a smug asshole who obviously can't adequately defend their beloved entertainment.

"Look at how much it sold."
Sorry, but sales is not equivalent to quality. It just means a lot of people like something or they were duped into spending money on it. Even if it is good quality, sales doesn't defend that. The actual merit of the work does independent on sales. Consequently, even if someone chooses to take the unpopular opinion, then you need to at least defend the popular one to show that it isn't just a bad case of mob mentality. Unless they are claiming it is unpopular and/or should never be made again, sales numbers have no place in the argument.

"Hey man, it's free!"
Yeah, well I don't have an infinite amount of time, so why should I invest time into the product?

"You're just saying it's bad to look cool."
Well, would you please direct me to whoever gave you your powers of understand my thoughts and feelings better than I already do. Even if that were the case, I'm still presenting an opinion that you obviously don't know how to answer.

 

[SKBPinkie]

Drive was an abysmally boring movie. The long, and I mean uncomfortably long, pauses, the barely-there story, the fact that the trailers straight up lied about what the movie was about, etc. etc.

Whenever I bring these up, people just retort with "Maybe you should go back to Transformers, you uncultured swine". This isn't a retort. You haven't explained why the criticisms are invalid in you opinion. Of if you don't think they are, that's fine too. Just try not to question my tastes; that has nothing to do with the discussion. Hell, I don't even like those movies.

And the gaming equivalent - "go back to CoD" or the Escapist's favorite - "spunkgargleweewee". You actually can like whatever you want without attempting to insult me. People do know this, right?

 

[1Life0Continues]

"X gets better y hours/games in."

So? Would you sit through having your teeth pulled for 4 hours without anaesthetic until it 'gets pleasurable'?

For me, Assassin's Creed 2 constantly gets this argument from fans. I find Ezio an appalling character that is the very antithesis of why I enjoyed the first AC game. He's loud, brash, obnoxious and unlikeable. But for some reason, when I say this I get the 'But he gets better in Brotherhood and Revelations!' No. No sale. I shouldn't have to wade through umpteen hours with an abhorrent character in the 'hopes' he gets better in the NEXT game. That's tantamount to Stockholm Syndrome. If the game is a chore to complete, I'm not going to play the next in the series. And stop trying to make me via pitiable excuses.

 

[tippy2k2]

"X gets better y hours/games in."

Amen to this

A few games I've heard this for, specifically Final Fantasy VIII and World of Warcraft (getting to level 60 to the "real" game)

There are literally hundreds of thousands of games that I can put into my preferred gaming device that I have no reason to need to play twenty-some hours to "get to the good part". I can put in a different game and get to the good part right now!

Maybe FFVIII gets face-melting awesome twenty hours in but I'll never find out.

 

[Coakle]

I never got people who say my opinion, on a stand alone work, is bad because I didn't consume the source material or spin-offs. It's the equivalent of saying 'Hey! I disagree with your criticism because you didn't have my mindset going in!'. I agree, so now what?

"X gets better y hours/games in."

Also see: "It's a slow burn, but it all pays off at the end".

No. If it's a good, slow burning show, you wouldn't have worded it that way.

 

[edudewired]

When you point out x,y or z and people just say "yeah that's fair enough, I enjoyed it despite x,y or z" or "I can see that, but I quite like x,y or z" it's like why can't they just agree with my opinion without adding their own.

 

[schrodinger]

"You just don't get the message it's trying to get across"

I don't care about the message, the movie itself was shit.

ooooh, I've seen that used too many times when someone tries to defend a terrence malick film. I had to watch tree of life with the insistence of my friend, and oh my, did that movie have an obnoxious amount of pretentiousness. According to my friend I would have like it more if I had understood what the film was trying to tell me.

Yeah...no.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

"You just don't get the message it's trying to get across"

I don't care about the message, the movie itself was shit.

ooooh, I've seen that used too many times when someone tries to defend a terrence malick film. I had to watch tree of life with the insistence of my friend, and oh my, did that movie have an obnoxious amount of pretentiousness. According to my friend I would have like it more if I had understood what the film was trying to tell me.

Yeah...no.

This is especially annoying when the message they're talking about wasn't subtle in the least. Tree of Life's message isn't particularly hard to see, it's very thinly veiled, if at all. Everyone who saw the film understood the message, most of us just didn't care because the movie wasn't very good.

 

[Moderated]

You haven't made (media), so you cannot have a negative opinion of (media).
But, I can have a positive opinion though, because it's positive.
Fuck those people.