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Beldaros

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Jan 24, 2009
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Hello escapists.

Eventhough these threads sometimes do not work, sometimes are even met with hate. I honestly believe that my workplace is something that people should be educated on. I am a cardroom supervisor in a casino, and I find that usually new customers come from the gaming community, because if taken seriously and enjoyed responibly that is exactly what gambling is.

however, people do not take it seriously and it causes a lot of problems more often then not.

so, I would like to give honest answers to questions you may have about the affects of gambling, the job itself and anything related that I can legally answer. Any questions you have I will do my best to answer in detail in between lobies on Call of Duty. I will do my best to answer everyone, but I have to sleep, work etc at some time so sometimes you may have to wait for a response.

Ask away.
 

Beldaros

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Private Custard said:
What's the most common 'tell'?

Does everyone have one?
It is true that everone has a tell yes, well many in fact. It is genuinly harder to figure out someone's tells when you are playing them, but when I'm at work I don't miss much.

I'd say the most common tell comes from people talking. Sometimes it is a shaky voice, sometimes it is the words. When I am playing, the first thing I usually try to do is get someone talking even, if it's not related to the hand. Keep someone talking and you can get everything you need to know. If someone doens't want to talk to you, they are usually bluffing. (Note that experienced players are awre of this though.)

Everyone has there little quirks though, being able to read a person away from a table makes it easier whilst on a table.
 

Raven's Nest

Elite Member
Feb 19, 2009
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Why is card counting so frowned upon? It's a genuine skill and if someone can do it they should be allowed...

Also, have you ever actually witnessed a royal flush being revealed at the last stage of a poker round?
 

Beldaros

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Jan 24, 2009
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Raven said:
Why is card counting so frowned upon? It's a genuine skill and if someone can do it they should be allowed...

Also, have you ever actually witnessed a royal flush being revealed at the last stage of a poker round?
A casino makes money solely by providing people with unbeatable games. Roulette for example is actually impossible to beat with stragegy, there is no stragegy that works. Card counting is frowned upon, quite simply because it works and a casino can lose a lot of money because of it. At the end of the day casino is business. It needs to survive, if everybody learnt to count cards, casino's would go broke across the world.

Last stage of a poker round... Do you mean at the end of a tournament? No I haven't. I have dealt 5 royal flushes in my time at the casino, witnessed a sixth, one was on the table. all six were during a cash game though. I do not understand the question entirley, but I think that will answer it either way.
 

Ozzythecat

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Jul 12, 2010
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What are the hours like?

Have you ever busted someone for counting cards or things like that?
 

BENZOOKA

This is the most wittiest title
Oct 26, 2009
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How do you deal with things like slow-rolling and very unclear string betting, for example?

As for tells, there are hundreds of different tells. You can even see a pulse on some people's necks. Betting patterns, naturally the cornerstone of all. Do they talk. What they talk about... The list is endless, sometimes it comes down to such meta things that you can't even define them. It's just a gentle vibe they're giving away.

In the basics, it's usually about how comfortable or nervous (or agitated, relaxed, frustrated, aggressive, careless...) someone is. Also a forward stance (like leaning on the table with arms together) is one of the classic aggressive tells. As is leaning back with arms more spread for the opposite: calm, comfortable and relaxed stance. And even though experienced players know these, it's also a different thing if they're lying, faking or using the most confusing reverse-reverse-reverse-reverse psychology, or whatever shady methods.
 

gunn34

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Nov 20, 2009
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This may not apply to your cardroom or any room you've worked in, but i have found that a few (and the one i frequent specifically) casinos offer cash poker games only. No tournaments. I was wondering the other day why this might be. Is there something prohibitively expensive about getting into the tourney scene? It seems like the WSOP on tv would guarantee a client base for tourneys. Also I know that the casino in question acquired the necessary licenses to run tournaments, but they have made no plans, as far as I can gather from dealers and floor people, to begin running them.
 

Raven's Nest

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Feb 19, 2009
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Beldaros said:
Raven said:
Why is card counting so frowned upon? It's a genuine skill and if someone can do it they should be allowed...

Also, have you ever actually witnessed a royal flush being revealed at the last stage of a poker round?
A casino makes money solely by providing people with unbeatable games. Roulette for example is actually impossible to beat with stragegy, there is no stragegy that works. Card counting is frowned upon, quite simply because it works and a casino can lose a lot of money because of it. At the end of the day casino is business. It needs to survive, if everybody learnt to count cards, casino's would go broke across the world.

Last stage of a poker round... Do you mean at the end of a tournament? No I haven't. I have dealt 5 royal flushes in my time at the casino, witnessed a sixth, one was on the table. all six were during a cash game though. I do not understand the question entirley, but I think that will answer it either way.
No I meant a royal flush being revealed after the last round of betting during a single hand, as in not just shown for the sake of proving you had one after all other players have folded for eg. I'm led to believe this is quite rare indeed.

It seems harsh that using a legitimate strategy during a game of blackjack for example, may get you kicked out of a casino. I get that they need to make money and can't afford to have too many winners, but it's a little harsh to blame the player and not the game don't you think? If one can card count very well, then you are exploiting a flaw in the game and not actually cheating per say. If the same thing happened in the law courts (banning legal trickery) half of all criminals either would or wouldn't be doing time...

Have you ever seen anything by Derren Brown? He's a psychological illusionist with a proven ability to card count up to 4 decks of mixed cards at once... YouTube may demonstrate the man's lethal skill in a casino (of which he is banned from all). If you don't find it, a casino allows him to film his progress (picks up a cool £75,000 at the blackjack table), casino owner says he can keep it if he wins a bet on a single number at roulette... The ball lands on the adjacent number. Brown turns to the camera and says with genuine disappointment, "fuck!"...
 

Beldaros

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Jan 24, 2009
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Ozzythecat said:
What are the hours like?


Have you ever busted someone for counting cards or things like that?
The hours, in my company in britain at least are 40 hours weeks, but almost entirely night work. You have the option of a five day 8 hour weeks or three 8 hours and one 16 hour. Personally I work 8pm-4am tuesday, thursday, saturday as supervisor, and 9pm-5am wednesday and friday as a dealer.

We bust cheaters often, I only work with poker so, I can only bust colluders. every type of cheating you can imagine goes on though, and NO ONE gets away with it.

benzooka said:
How do you deal with things like slow-rolling and very unclear string betting, for example?
Even though there are "house rules" on everthing in poker, and the tables, often the dealer has to make a decision based on what they see and if they can't they have to look to myself or higher for clarification of a rule.

We have a useful system where a dealer can choose to envoke "the rule of honesty" Where you let something go beacuse someone is new to the game and gently explain why they can't do it, or declare that a faux par was an honest mistake. Or envoke "The rule of technicallity" Where you take an action as the first thing the player does and strictly impose a change of action or a penalty. in terms of String betting, my general rule, is if a single chip or uncalculable amount of chips go over the line and touch the felt, I class that as a call or minimum bet. i am a strict dealer/supervisor though, I often see a dealer that is not sure take the cautious approach and let the bet stand. If something is unclear to me I always enforce technicality.

I hope that clears it up a little bit.

Oh, slow rolling, it is difficult to prevent someone slow rolling, other then imposing hand penalties after they have done it, I usually warn someone that I will take action next time (though I do not know what action I will take) and then they don't do it again.



gunn34 said:
This may not apply to your cardroom or any room you've worked in, but i have found that a few (and the one i frequent specifically) casinos offer cash poker games only. No tournaments. I was wondering the other day why this might be. Is there something prohibitively expensive about getting into the tourney scene? It seems like the WSOP on tv would guarantee a client base for tourneys. Also I know that the casino in question acquired the necessary licenses to run tournaments, but they have made no plans, as far as I can gather from dealers and floor people, to begin running them.
The thing with tournaments is that usually poorer people want to play in them, and there is very little profit in a tournament, especially if it is dealer dealt. Most casino's in Britain do hold oturnaments at all levels. Some casino's run them every day, but less then £50 entry requires them to be dealer dealt. Other casino's run them a couple of days a week, like our casino. The problem with tournaments is that it can tie up a dealer for hours with very little payout from the customers. After you take out dealers, wages the elec tricity used etc, very little money is left over, and then if you put freebies on top of that, you've got no chance of making money off of them.

The other thing is, Poker does not make a lot of money in the grand scheme of things. Poker is only there to get customers on the other tables. On a 50p/ £1 table a casino makes approximatelly £75 per table per hour. Whereas they can make ten times that in one spin of a roulette wheel.
 

Beldaros

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Jan 24, 2009
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Raven said:
No I meant a royal flush being revealed after the last round of betting during a single hand, as in not just shown for the sake of proving you had one after all other players have folded for eg. I'm led to believe this is quite rare indeed.

It seems harsh that using a legitimate strategy during a game of blackjack for example, may get you kicked out of a casino. I get that they need to make money and can't afford to have too many winners, but it's a little harsh to blame the player and not the game don't you think? If one can card count very well, then you are exploiting a flaw in the game and not actually cheating per say. If the same thing happened in the law courts (banning legal trickery) half of all criminals either would or wouldn't be doing time...
Oh I see. Yes I have seen three occasions where a royal flush is shown at a show down, only once when I was dealing though. Royal flushes are rare in themselves, so yes it is rare that royal flush is shown at a sho down.

I'm not going to say that the decision to ban card counting is fair, I just wanted to tell you why it is the case. To be fair though now a days casino's have simply counteracted card counting by using 6-8 decks and by re setting the shoe (what the cards are drawn from) at arbitrary times. Making it impossible to count cards for anyone. Even rainman.

Edit: Tch, double post, please excuse that.
 

VincentX3

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Jun 30, 2009
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Has anyone really thought (and tried) having an "ace up their sleeve" would be a good idea?

What I'm trying to say is, have you caught anyone with cards up their sleeve?
 

Beldaros

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Jan 24, 2009
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VincentX3 said:
Has anyone really thought (and tried) having an "ace up their sleeve" would be a good idea?

What I'm trying to say is, have you caught anyone with cards up their sleeve?
Surprisingly, no. Marking cards is very common, as is trying to hoard cards in the next deal, but an actual card up a sleeve or hidden on a person, as yet, I have not witnessed that. I have had a customer with a counterfeit deck, but he did not have the guts to try using it, he was thrown out regardless though, eventhough he was polite enough to say what he was intending, we simply cannot put up with it.
 

The Shade

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Mar 20, 2008
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What kind of Poker is most common in casinos?

Or, more importantly, if I were to learn a type of Poker, which would be the most practical?
 

Blemontea

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May 25, 2010
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Why cant i ever remember the poker rules...?
Do you do any fancy card tricks when dealing the cards?
 

Beldaros

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Jan 24, 2009
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The Shade said:
What kind of Poker is most common in casinos?

Or, more importantly, if I were to learn a type of Poker, which would be the most practical?
Texas Hold Em poker is the most popular, but Omaha is starting to creap in. Being able to understand and play both those games is a good starting point. If you want to learn, I'd advise buying a console game, as that will give you all the basics with little cost.


Blemontea said:
Why cant i ever remember the poker rules...?
Do you do any fancy card tricks when dealing the cards?
When it comes to the rules... well there are a lot, or at least there are in a casino game. People often forget the finer rules and etiquette of the games. If you're talking about what hand beats what etc though. You probably just need to play more to familiarise yourself with it.

fancy card tricks... difficult to answer. I am an excellent dealer and the things I can do with the cards are beyond the average dealer, I often spin the chips as I'm collecting them and make them do things, instead of just throwing them into the pot and being boring. I'm very neat and fluent with my actions. Some people would refer to that as tricks I suppose. I don't tell people to pick a card any card or anything like that though. So, that is very difficult to answer.
 

The Shade

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Beldaros said:
The Shade said:
What kind of Poker is most common in casinos?

Or, more importantly, if I were to learn a type of Poker, which would be the most practical?
Texas Hold Em poker is the most popular, but Omaha is starting to creap in. Being able to understand and play both those games is a good starting point. If you want to learn, I'd advise buying a console game, as that will give you all the basics with little cost.
Makes sense. That's how I got started on Blackjack. Poker is a little more complex, o' course.
 

Beldaros

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Jan 24, 2009
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The Shade said:
Beldaros said:
The Shade said:
What kind of Poker is most common in casinos?

Or, more importantly, if I were to learn a type of Poker, which would be the most practical?
Texas Hold Em poker is the most popular, but Omaha is starting to creap in. Being able to understand and play both those games is a good starting point. If you want to learn, I'd advise buying a console game, as that will give you all the basics with little cost.
Makes sense. That's how I got started on Blackjack. Poker is a little more complex, o' course.
It's easy enough to learn, it's the dicipline that needs practice.
 

zen5887

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Jan 31, 2008
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I've always wanted to play a game in a casino, but I've always been afraid of making a faux pas and pissing everyone off. How forgiving are you and other players to newbies?
 

Beldaros

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Jan 24, 2009
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zen5887 said:
I've always wanted to play a game in a casino, but I've always been afraid of making a faux pas and pissing everyone off. How forgiving are you and other players to newbies?
Depends on the customers TBH. The dealers are usually willing to put up with newbies and some customers are very friendly, but sometimes customers are dicks too new people. On your first time, you'll get a bit of leniency. So long as the dealer isn't having a bad day.

Don't worry about being new, it's like being a learner driver. Everyone was there once.