At which point are you a Criminal?

[BassamAF]

Recently in the United States and Canada, there have been pushes for thought crimes to become law.

Specifically, for the US, an anti-piracy policy involving Google is being devised, where people can be logged and arrested based on their google searches, if the searches are for something illegal (for example: "Them Crooked Vultures site:mediafire.com").

In Canada, there is a push for anime featuring sexualised drawings of minors to be made illegal to "stop people using it as a gateway" into child molestation etc. That is, it is going to be made illegal because people might break another law, rather than the images themselves actually causing unjust harm to anyone.

This begs the question: At which point do you become a criminal? Does thinking of murdering someone make you a killer, or does pulling the trigger make you a killer?

Should the law be trying to strike preemptively to create a safer community?

At what point does this kind of Justice become criminal?

--

Personally, I am of the ilk that believes you are criminal only when you actually commit an illegal act, and believe that the possession of illegal images should be legal, but the production of them not. Honestly I can't think of a good reason for cartoons to be made illegal short of radical fanaticism about what is good and evil.

Frankly I think the idea of people being added to sex offender lists for 20+ years (which severely affects their life) for the possession of - for example - Simpsons pornography involving Bart/Lisa is pretty ludicrous.

 

[Malyc]

Recently in the United States and Canada, there have been pushes for thought crimes to become law.

Specifically, for the US, an anti-piracy policy involving Google is being devised, where people can be logged and arrested based on their google searches, if the searches are for something illegal (for example: "Them Crooked Vultures site:mediafire.com").

In Canada, there is a push for anime featuring sexualised drawings of minors to be made illegal to "stop people using it as a gateway" into child molestation etc. That is, it is going to be made illegal because people might break another law, rather than the images themselves actually causing unjust harm to anyone.

This begs the question: At which point do you become a criminal? Does thinking of murdering someone make you a killer, or does pulling the trigger make you a killer?

Should the law be trying to strike preemptively to create a safer community?

At what point does this kind of Justice become criminal?

--

Personally, I am of the ilk that believes you are criminal only when you actually commit an illegal act, and believe that the possession of illegal images should be legal, but the production of them not. Honestly I can't think of a good reason for cartoons to be made illegal short of radical fanaticism about what is good and evil.

Frankly I think the idea of people being added to sex offender lists for 20+ years (which severely affects their life) for the possession of - for example - Simpsons pornography involving Bart/Lisa is pretty ludicrous.

I'll agree with you... And add that you should become criminal if you dont go at least the speed limit on the freeway.

 

[Talvrae]

In Canada, there is a push for anime featuring sexualised drawings of minors to be made illegal to "stop people using it as a gateway" into child molestation etc. That is, it is going to be made illegal because people might break another law, rather than the images themselves actually causing unjust harm to anyone.

I'm Canadian and i never heard of that

The push must not be really that strong

 

[Rakkana]

Leave them be. Instead of putting down stricter laws governments should be focusing on enforcing the existing ones.

 

[Shepard's Shadow]

At which point do you become a criminal? When you commit a crime.

Does thinking of murdering someone make you a killer? No.

Does pulling the trigger make you a killer? Depends on the circumstance.

Should the law be trying to strike preemptively to create a safer community? No.

At what point does this kind of Justice become criminal? When people get punished for a crime they have not yet committed.

 

[Hitokiri_Gensai]

i agree with the speed limit one the fast lane is FOR GOING FAST NOT DOING HALF THE BLOODY SPEED LIMIT SO THE OTHER LANE IS MOVING FASTER THAN YOU!!

I think its all a giant cluster fuck and eventually we're going to end up sterilizing the whole bloody world and we'll end up in Big Brother times a thousand and then we're pretty much, screwed. Seriously, there is a line as which youve stepped over and become the all powerful government here to save the day, but in the end what have you achieved except control over your populace with fear and cameras.

Child porn is disgusting, and anyone getting off to it deserves a fate worse than death. So i can agree with the government with that sort of law, but there is a limit to what laws can be placed down and how far the government should be allowed to go with bans and controls.

A government should fears its people, not the otherway round.

 

[Woodsey]

You're only a criminal once you've committed a crime.

And just because I search "[insert game name] torrents" doesn't mean I'm going to pirate a game; I often look on Piratebay to see if a game's even available yet after people have made claims that they've played a game all the way through before release.

 

[konor77]

Specifically, for the US, an anti-piracy policy involving Google is being devised, where people can be logged and arrested based on their google searches, if the searches are for something illegal (for example: "Them Crooked Vultures site:mediafire.com").

Thats stupid why would they search for people considering it when they're not doing anything about those who are actually downloading it.

 

[joshuaayt]

In Canada, there is a push for anime featuring sexualised drawings of minors to be made illegal to "stop people using it as a gateway" into child molestation etc. That is, it is going to be made illegal because people might break another law, rather than the images themselves actually causing unjust harm to anyone.

That's silly. Will they ban Monster Hunter, in case you use it as a gateway into Egg Poaching and illegal animal hunting?

 

[konor77]

EDIT: double post

 

[Jedoro]

At which point do you become a criminal? When you commit a criminal act.

Does thinking of murdering someone make you a killer, or does pulling the trigger make you a killer? If they die from the wound, then you become a killer, but not necessarily a murderer.

Should the law be trying to strike preemptively to create a safer community? No. We're paranoid enough as it is, and it shouldn't infringe on freedom.

At what point does this kind of Justice become criminal? When, as stated above, people are punished for things they haven't done.

 

[BlumiereBleck]

Call me old fashioned rebel but I really don't think Conservatives will let that bill be passed, the bill itself is criminal ;3

 

[Gigano]

Well, criminalizing a logged Google search does not necessarily entail criminalizing thought, since it can be taken as an attempt to violate copyright law, if additional evidence support that conclusion beyond a reasonable doubt. If I input "Song name" + "MP3" + "Download" as a search term, then what links I'm trying to get to should be pretty clear; as should my intention with them.

Thinking about murdering someone doesn't make you a criminal, but attempting to - even if that attempt doesn't go very far - certainly does.

In this scenario, whether the law strikes "pre-emptively", or after a(n attempted) crime has begun, is thus up for debate. Since attempted crimes are usually already illegal though, the change may have some broader application as well. And personally I'm firmly against it, just saying it isn't necessarily the very thought that's criminalized.

As for animated pornography, I see no reason to criminalize it given that there's no harm involved in producing it, and there's no reliable info on whether it increase the risk of offences against actual children. Outlawing something as of now harmless simply because it's disgusting and morally in the wrong is to me never good idea although it may well be constitutionally possible to do.

Technically, this kind of "Justice" becomes criminal once it violates the constitution and/or international law. As for when it becomes undue, unnecessary, unethical, oppressive, and/or stupid, that's another matter entirely.

This probably belongs in Religion & Politics.

 

[M-JN]

Yeah, and every action movie ever made is a gateway into people suddenly becoming ruggedly handsome, shooting hundreds of people and shagging lots of women.

Look, I think it's inevitable that laws are going to continue to get steadily more ridiculous. That's just been the trend ever since organized society happened. I bet people were outraged back when the clan leader made a rule that you couldn't kill people in the first place. If you're going at it that way, when does "rules for a stable society" become "too restricting and stupid?" There's gotta be a line there as well.

And as the system devises new and better laws, it is up to us, the real people, to devise new and better ways to break them.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

Does the word Pornosec mean anything to anyone here? It's newspeak for the pornography department of the Ministry of Truth from 1984. Just thought that was relevant.

 

[dragonslayer32]

You break the Law once you pass the point of no return. So, if you think of killing someone, get ready to kill them, take the gun to their house, you are not breaking the law(depeding on gun laws where you are). The moment you pull the trigger (in this case, the point of no return) you are killing, as you can still walk away after pointing it in their face.

At some point, everyone thinks about breaking the law, we are only human. It is not following through with those thoughts that makes us good people.

 

[SsilverR]

you're a criminal when it's convenient for someone

 

[Jake the Snake]

Isn't this an issue that was tackled in Minority Report? And didn't it end up...you know being useless and wrong?