Avengers Infinity Wars (plot holes?)

[Siyano_v1legacy]

Even though I liked the movie and after seen it twice, I feel like I have missed some plot holes or I'm questioning some part too much.
Obviously, this includes spoiler to the movie

1. Why is Gamora so easily mind changed and give the position of the soul stone so easily when Thanos is threatening to kill Nebula. I mean I thought Gamora hated pretty much her sister and she sacrificing so much by giving the gem position?!

2. Why is Scarlet Witch and Vision are a couple?! yeah in Civil War, Vision made some flirting and such with Scarlet Witch, but that was an obvious way for him to keep her attention and protecting her, I don't see how its evolved basically in a relationship.

3. The dwarf story, even though we have very little explanation, why did the dwarf do the gauntlet in the first place? to not be killed? but it doesn't make sense since they are the only one that can do it?

4. why is Dr. Strange not using much of the time gem?

So, what your opinion?

 

[Hawki]

As much as I dislike Infinity War, these aren't plotholes:

1. Why is Gamora so easily mind changed and give the position of the soul stone so easily when Thanos is threatening to kill Nebula. I mean I thought Gamora hated pretty much her sister and she sacrificing so much by giving the gem position?!

They made up in GotG 2. Watching torture is never fun.

2. Why is Scarlet Witch and Vision are a couple?! yeah in Civil War, Vision made some flirting and such with Scarlet Witch, but that was an obvious way for him to keep her attention and protecting her, I don't see how its evolved basically in a relationship.

A lot can happen in a few years. There was that connection back in Civil War.

Personally I think the romance is forced, but it's not a plothole.

3. The dwarf story, even though we have very little explanation, why did the dwarf do the gauntlet in the first place? to not be killed? but it doesn't make sense since they are the only one that can do it?

Gauntlet allows Thanos to wield the power of the stones safely. Also, they're dwarfs. Dwarfs are good at forging things, because tropes and all that.

4. why is Dr. Strange not using much of the time gem?

Dunno. This might be a nitpick. Besides, he's apparently following the path that'll lead them to victory, so everything he does is to ensure said victory apparently.

So, what your opinion?

My opinion is that Infinity War is "bleh." The fight scenes are over-reliant on CGI, utilizing the premise of "throw everything at the screen." It uses Care Bear moralizing (yes, let's sacrifice everyone for Vision, I'm sure the Wakandans are happy about that), has a villain whose plan doesn't even make sense (and makes even less sense now that we know it wiped out non-humanoid life), and will have the majority of its consequences undone in the next movie, a fact that Marvel hasn't even tried to hide. Honestly, I was just plain bored with most of it.

 

[Siyano_v1legacy]

yeah I guess they are not really plot hole, maybe more stuff that is not explained well enough
I understand I liked the movie, although like you some part of the movie is a bit bleh

about the dwarf, I know they made the gauntlet to be wearing the gems, but the question is why they did it?

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I don't know if stupid qualifies as plot holes, but the big glaring one is Thanos' plan. None of it makes sense. Even Brolin pointed it out in an interview.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

My biggest gripe is that Thanos didn't think anything through. Follow up tweets from the writers confirmed that the Gauntlet killed half of ALL life, not just sentient. So cut in half all the cows, sheep, fish and bacteria on Earth. Meaning, functionally, nothing changed.

To break it down if you have 8 people and 4 cows, thats 2 people per cow. Over population. So Thanos' solution was to kill half of the people...and half of the cows. So now we're at 4 people...and 2 cows. Still, over population to the exact same ratio, 2-1.
Also he didn't take into account planets that had just finished a world war and were under populated. Also didn't take into account planets that could feed and cloth all their people.
Also didn't specify if it was half of all species total, or half of the average number, which could kill an entire species and leave a second species completely untouched depending of populations, ie the two Lava Dragons on Planet Y vs. the 100 Trillion Ant People of Planet X.
Also also stated the Universe, not the Galaxy, but the Universe, with its literal infinite Galaxies and Infinite+ planets was 'finite' which is a fundamental misunderstanding of the universe.
Also Also also chose to kill half of everything instead of creating more resources.
Also Also Also also didn't know the earth's population was 6.8 billion. So half of that is 3.4 billion, or the population at 1964, 20 years after the most devastating war in our history. So for a species close to 2million years old he set us back 60 years. Meaning the population will return to Pre-Snap within a single generation.

So really, Thanos is an idiot and nothing he did made any sense.

Also P.S. half the bacteria gone = all life dead, period.

 

[Trunkage]

yeah I guess they are not really plot hole, maybe more stuff that is not explained well enough
I understand I liked the movie, although like you some part of the movie is a bit bleh

about the dwarf, I know they made the gauntlet to be wearing the gems, but the question is why they did it?

wasn't Tyrion's people threatened. Thanos would kill half the dwarves if he didn't. Then he killed all dwarves anyway which is the part that didn't make sense to me.

I don't know if stupid qualifies as plot holes, but the big glaring one is Thanos' plan. None of it makes sense. Even Brolin pointed it out in an interview.

Reaper logic

 

[Saelune]

The Scarlet Witch/Vision pairing has been happening since Civil War, it did not come out of nowhere. Marvel's dwarves are based on Norse Dwarves who all they ever do is make god-level magic items. Doctor Strange did use the gem, and supposedly there is only one way that results in victory that he found after going through a crazy high number of versions where it only ends bad.

Thanos is evil, which is why his plan is terrible. He -thinks- he is True Neutral, but he is really Lawful Evil...and insane. Unless they bring Death in which is the real reason Thanos was murdering half the universe, to impress her cause he is in love with Death.

(Side rant, reddit has taken Thanos way too far and needs to stop.)

 

[Palindromemordnilap_v1legacy]

1. Why is Gamora so easily mind changed and give the position of the soul stone so easily when Thanos is threatening to kill Nebula. I mean I thought Gamora hated pretty much her sister and she sacrificing so much by giving the gem position?!

She hated her, but in GotG1 we see she'll reach out to try and pull Nebula up from a fall rather than let her die. And then in GotG2 they go a long way to patching up some of their disagreements. They may not get along so well but its clear Gamora considers Nebula family enough to actually care about her, so watching her get slowly pulled apart isn't going to be something thats easy to deal with

2. Why is Scarlet Witch and Vision are a couple?! yeah in Civil War, Vision made some flirting and such with Scarlet Witch, but that was an obvious way for him to keep her attention and protecting her, I don't see how its evolved basically in a relationship.

The two have had a connection since Age of Ultron where she peered into his dreams as he was being created. Then you get a few years until the connection you see in Civil War and a few years after that in Infinity War they've actually started dating. I'm not entirely sure how that happened given she's supposed to be a fugitive on the run since Civil War, but I'll accept its a logical progression

3. The dwarf story, even though we have very little explanation, why did the dwarf do the gauntlet in the first place? to not be killed? but it doesn't make sense since they are the only one that can do it?

Thanos demanded they make the gauntlet or he'd kill everyone. And in the big wide universe its entirely possible he could have found some other way to wield the stones without the dwarves' help so Eitri went along with it to hopefully spare his people. Shame Thanos lied

4. why is Dr. Strange not using much of the time gem?

From what we've seen of the Time Stone it requires extensive magical gestures to get it going. You have to go through a whole sequence just to get the Eye to open, never mind starting to use the Stone itself. Great when you can program stuff in before an encounter (as Strange did when before he went to bargain with Dormammu) but not so good in an active fight. Case in point, trying to do all that mystical stuff in battle is what lets Ebony Maw get the drop on Strange and wrap him up

As to the gripes towards Thanos' plan I see in the topic, people seem to be forgetting that Thanos' deal isn't entirely "overpopulation is bad", its "everything must be balanced". For a great amount of life, then at some point you need a great amount of death, and he'd rather do it himself in what he believes to be a humane way rather than the collapse his own civilisation went through. Yeah its still not a perfect plan but it explains why he's not, say, just creating more resources. Because thats still not balanced

 

[Paragon Fury]

1: They made up in GotG 2. Also, watching people get tortured is not usually not fun for anyone, even if you don't like them.

2: They are in the comics, and they needed a romance in Civil War for some reason?

3: He made the gauntlet in the hopes the Dwarves would be spared; Thanos instead killed all the Dwarves except for him. He "spared" the Dwarf because the Dwarf aided him, but he got rid of the rest because he wanted to cripple their ability to make things for the Asgardians and shut down the Star Forge, as it was a threat to Thanos. Thanos didn't really count on Thor's whole "Fly into an active sun" bit.

4: The Time Stone requires preparation and proper knowledge to use. In addition, at that point Thanos had the Reality, Space and Power Stones, which could've more than fucked with Strange's use of the stone. Strange was also likely hiding it in case Thanos decided to go for the "Instant Total Party Kill" move instead of the drawn-out fight.

 

[CyanCat47_v1legacy]

Doctor Strange makes everything more difficult simply by existing in the story. He uses magic that bends time and space and Dormamu was arguably just as much of an existensial threat as Thanos if not bigger. Strange looked into the future where the avengers won, so when he saw the battle turning away from this reality he could have turned time back, or at worst put himself in the same infinite time loop as he did with Dormamu since Thanos can't control time without his infinity stone.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

but the big glaring one is Thanos' plan. None of it makes sense.

So? Why do so many people expect villains to be like the good guys with rational plans and motives? Thanos is insane. How is that not clear to everyone?

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

but the big glaring one is Thanos' plan. None of it makes sense.

So? Why do so many people expect villains to be like the good guys with rational plans and motives? Thanos is insane. How is that not clear to everyone?

Maybe they were worried about laying it on too thick by calling him "The Mad Titan", like in the comics.

 

[PsychedelicDiamond]

Because the movie is bad.

I will defend Thanos as a character to an extent, though. No, his plan makes very little sense but I don't think we are meant to think it does. If you look at him and his posse there's sort of a religious element to their plan. Thanos does what he does as to reach a sort of personal salvation, not because it actually serves some greater good. He's a bit like a cult leader. He thinks by killing half of all living beings he can redeem himself from the guilt of letting his own people die.

The movie's still bad, though.

 

[Hawki]

So? Why do so many people expect villains to be like the good guys with rational plans and motives? Thanos is insane. How is that not clear to everyone?

Except he's quite erudite for someone who's supposedly insane. While his plan makes no sense, he's shown to be in full control of his faculties.

 

[SupahEwok]

Personally, I think that Thanos' plan not making sense is an intentional plot device for the next movie. From what I hear, a big part of defeating Thanos in the comics was undermining his willpower, giving him doubts, which loosened his hold on the Infinity Gems. In Infinity War, Thanos himself said a couple of times how he was the one who needed to bring balance to the universe because only he had the will to do it. The Avengers finding him and pointing out how just killing hallf of the life in the universe didn't solve anything would play into that. As would guilt trips over Gamorra.

Or maybe it's just a Hollywood hackneyed plot. Won't know until the next one, but the possibility keeps me from dismissing the plot outright.

 

[Paragon Fury]

but the big glaring one is Thanos' plan. None of it makes sense.

So? Why do so many people expect villains to be like the good guys with rational plans and motives? Thanos is insane. How is that not clear to everyone?

Because the best villains tend to BE the ones with rational plans and motives. The "one event slightly different and they might've been a good guy", or being able to see how even though this person is now evil it wasn't difficult or even strange that one might find themselves in that position.

Sure, sometimes you get villains like the Joker who do the crazy mad-man style villain well. But often they're kind of boring and get same-y after a while.

Of course, a villain can both be slightly insane and completely rational and understandable in their motivations at the same time if you try. A good example is Caius Cain from FFXIII 2 and LR; his plan is utter insanity - kill the Goddess of the world, invade her kingdom and stop time itself.

Why?

Because has been forced to suffer for centuries as the undying guardian of the Seers, young girls who get randomly chosen by the Goddess to receive visions of the future and things that might occur. A "gift" that eventually blinds them and painfully kills them. So since he can't stop the visions even if he kills the Goddess (since the magic already exists in the world) he instead does the next best thing - he kills time itself, meaning the visions no longer occur because time is now almost non-functional and a bunch of shattered possibilities and realities so there is nothing possible that can be shown.

The entire time he acts completely rationally in relation to his goals; he takes logical and needed steps to accomplish his task, doesn't deviate or gloat or stop to torture anyone or hurt anyone not in his path.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

So? Why do so many people expect villains to be like the good guys with rational plans and motives? Thanos is insane. How is that not clear to everyone?

Except he's quite erudite for someone who's supposedly insane. While his plan makes no sense, he's shown to be in full control of his faculties.

That's because he's a sociopath, not a schizophrenic.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

but the big glaring one is Thanos' plan. None of it makes sense.

So? Why do so many people expect villains to be like the good guys with rational plans and motives? Thanos is insane. How is that not clear to everyone?

Nothing about Thanos spells insanity. He's rationally, logically motivated to care about overpopulation - a perfectly valid concern, specially given his backstory - and everything he does works towards solving that problem.

That given the power to bend time, space and the very fabric of existence he would waste those powers in a narrow-minded way that defeats his very purpose in a number of ways is a plot hole because nothing about his character says he's insane or, well, stupid.

 

[Paragon Fury]

but the big glaring one is Thanos' plan. None of it makes sense.

So? Why do so many people expect villains to be like the good guys with rational plans and motives? Thanos is insane. How is that not clear to everyone?

Nothing about Thanos spells insanity. He's rationally, logically motivated to care about overpopulation - a perfectly valid concern, specially given his backstory - and everything he does works towards solving that problem.

That given the power to bend time, space and the very fabric of existence he would waste those powers in a narrow-minded way that defeats his very purpose in a number of ways is a plot hole because nothing about his character says he's insane or, well, stupid.

I feel like they didn't give enough time to see how he would've arrived at the conclusion. It's fairly easy to infer that he has seen what happened to his race befall dozens, if not hundreds, of other species who tried other methods, so he finally decides to force his way on the rest of the universe.

And he probably subscribes to the idea that the other workarounds will lead to the same outcome he fears, just after a longer delay or be worse when they do go off.