Bad command structure, faulty engineering, strange tactics and more.

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Trillovinum

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Most of the games I've played recently hit me as somewhat weird.
Some have great gameplay. Others have nice graphics. Some even have good storytelling.
And a rare few have them all.

But what almost none of them have, are sensible military tactics.
I know games have to be cinematic but why does that almost always result in crapy tactical descisions?

Allow me to elaborate; what I mean by this is that armed forces in video games use tactics and strategies, any real-world military officer would be court-marchalled for. Video games show, head-long charges, unplanned mass attacks, poorly planned reinforcement drops and dropship/helicopter shoot-downs that could easilly have been avoided.

a few examples; (*possible spoilers*)
In Call of Duty Black Ops, friendly soldiers storm headlong into battle waving their guns in front of them hoping the enemy will take cover (witch they won't)
In Halo Reach, the humans lead a head-long charge (using warthogs) against tanks and enemy air power while their tanks and air support lag behind. Your helicopter also takes a gamble by flying through a possible EMP shield (and crashing) instead of landing and walking the rest of the way.
In Final Fantasy XIII the bad guys try to stop a train by blowing up the bridge instead of, say, turn off power to the mag-tracks.
In resistance 2, your allies fall by the dozens as they try to defeat a Godzilla size monster by shooting machineguns at it. (I thought it was a proven fact that that won't work.)
They also try to kill a giant swarm of shredding beetles by standing in its tracks and shoot their rifles at it.

I could probably go on for hours on end like this but I think I made my point.

What I'm asking you now, dear readers of the escapist, is this; what do YOU think of these starnge tactics? How would you have done it? and how can game developers improve on this?
 

TerranReaper

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In the defense of the giant swarm of shredding beetles, I don't think they were expecting to go against something like that.
 

Midnight Crossroads

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It's one of those things where realism is sacrificed for dramatic effect or to try and make it more fun. A hardcore military sim may appeal to some people, but not the market of "people who would probably shoot their own nuts off if given a gun" demographic the devs are aiming for. A lot of game developers probably weren't prior service either, so they're working in the dark.

I remember in Call of Duty 1 seeing a squad with two captains in it, and the sergeant was giving the orders and people called him 'sir.' That's really jarring.
 

WanderingFool

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You're talking about military tactics in videogames? Isnt it a an undeniable fact that these are for show, not soundness? Hell, how practicle do you think the invasion of America by Russia in MW2 was? Its all for show...
 

Valkyrie101

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It gets worse in Operation Flashpoint 2, because that prides itself on realism. Now I'm no expert, but consider this scenario:

Your squad, along with other friendly forces, is tasked with entering an enemy-held village and eliminating two AA vehicles to allow helicopters to drop off reinforcements. Once you get close enough, you're given a time limit of five minutes to destroy both vehicles before the helicopters arrive. If you fail, they're shot down and you fail the mission.

But why? That doesn't make any sense. Why not have the choppers stand by and wait until the objective is secure before they land? If you make it on schedule, they land on time and everyone's happy. If not, then they'll be late, which is still better than being a flaming wreck. There's simply no reasonable justification that I can fathom for that kind of stupidity, ordering units to eliminate the AA and then sending in the airborne and just hoping that they've succeeded by then. I could understand if you had to take them out within the time limit, and if you failed then the assault would be delayed, resulting in mission failure (although in the context of the mission that's rather strange).

To make matters worse they don't even give you any equipment capable of neutralising said vehicles, so you have to improvise. Namely, hijacking a friendly tank or grabbing one of the rocket launchers the commander was relying on being left lying around by the enemy.

It's not even a one-off: there are very similar scenarios in multiple missions.
 

JWRosser

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It's just not realistic s'all.
Like Ephraim said:
Ephraim J. Witchwood said:
I don't see a problem here. Video games are meant to entertain, not be realistic. Or at least, they're supposed to...
If all you did was, say in the case of Call of Duty, sit around and wait for your commander to issue orders, which resulted in you escorting some hungry villagers stricken with famine from point A to point B with zorro conflict, then that would make for a pretty dull game.

I think when games say they are "realistic", they mean they have some sort of physics engine. Or that head shots kill in one.
 

MattyDienhoff

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Ephraim J. Witchwood said:
I don't see a problem here. Video games are meant to entertain, not be realistic.
You say that as if "entertaining" and "realistic" are mutually exclusive. Not necessarily true.

The fact is that a lot of games, even if their stories and certain other elements are fictional, are grounded in reality and therefore have to be careful with how much suspension of disbelief they demand from players. The more serious the tone of the game, the more this is true.

Incidentally it bugs me how many people seem to think of realism in games in absolute terms, as if a game must either be attempting to be as realistic as possible or not trying at all, whereas the majority of games are somewhere in between. Even the most realistic tactical shooters make some concessions for the sake of gameplay. Due to their very nature games have to be unrealistic in some ways (savegames/respawning, for instance, unless we want to play an FPS in which dying even once means never being able to play again).

Realism isn't good or bad, it's just a subjective scale, and it's very rare that a game is made to be "as realistic as possible", so I'd be pleased if I never saw the "if you want realism, go outside" strawman argument again.
 

6unn3r

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Four words, ArmA 2 Mission Editor.

Use this and you can pretty much make a mission as real as you like. With command and control, special forces, air power, artillery, yadda yadda yadda... the posabilities are nearly endless, especially with the ACE mod.
 

Trillovinum

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That's multiplayer. I'm just talking about story mode. Multiplayer is meant to be mindless and erratic. It's all you can expect from a bunch of untrained, differently aged grunts. besides there's no real means for them to communicate and everyone knows that's the key to good strategy...
 

Trillovinum

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JWRosser said:
It's just not realistic s'all.
Like Ephraim said:
Ephraim J. Witchwood said:
I don't see a problem here. Video games are meant to entertain, not be realistic. Or at least, they're supposed to...
If all you did was, say in the case of Call of Duty, sit around and wait for your commander to issue orders, which resulted in you escorting some hungry villagers stricken with famine from point A to point B with zorro conflict, then that would make for a pretty dull game.

I think when games say they are "realistic", they mean they have some sort of physics engine. Or that head shots kill in one.
I'm not saying you have to do humanitarian missions. Its just that the call of duty guys show no real sense of tactics in the combat missions they do. They just storm in and hope for the best. You can still kill all the enemies with minimum casualties to your own side. but COD doesn't seem to care...
 

subject_87

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In Half-Life 2, neither side seems particularly smart: the Combine rappel down directly in front of speeding vehicles, cluster around explosive barrels, and stand on wood platforms that collapse at the slightest impact. Really, I have to wonder how the hell they took over the world.

Similarly, the Rebels don't seem to have much military strategy beyond standing in doorways and yelling 'Reload, Dr. Freeman!'. However, they do get bonus points for having Dog on their side, because Dog is awesome.
 

Anarchemitis

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All movies and governed by people such as Directors, who first and second want to entertain people and make money.
The prerequisite of earning such a position in video games or film requires experience in the field of Video Games or Film, not the Military, Higher Thinking, Advanced Sciences or Racing.

Knowing enough that it ruins the spectacle means you haven't learned enough about In-universe criticism that you're not supposed to care if unless actual realistic portrayal in many more aspects than any game could ever present.

Turn doing a 180, then turning back within the space of one second. Now do that holding your hands in front of you as if you were holding a gun. Now imagine doing that with the weight of the gun. Now imagine doing that while standing (on uneven terrain). Now running (on uneven terrain), with gear. Now imagine doing that while reloading.
That's why realism can't be emulated entirely. There is little point in concerning oneself with aspects that are "Unrealistic" when all fundamental principles that govern the game are not realistic apart from colors and model design (which are hardly all-encompassing aspects of a game.)
 

Zipa

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Dec 19, 2010
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The thread title sounds like your average star trek episode.
 

MrMoustaffa

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For games like Halo or Singularity, which are less serious and more about epic story and gameplay, it doesnt bother me as much (still bothers me to see some of the idiotic stuff the spartans and spetznaz do respectively, but thats another story)

Its when a game like COD present themselves seriously, have "realistic" presentation, and then try to tell you that of course Russia would invade D.C. by air as its first target, even though its on the opposite side of the country from where Russia is, and that there is no way the US government would notice a freaking ARMADA of planes flying across the entire United states. Not to mention the helicopters that only could have arrived there if they were dropped out of a plane, or the fact that the "elite" Spetznaz that were dropped in could actually be defeated by the hundreds by a single squad of U.S. Marines.

That being said, that was a pretty damn epic part in the game, and I'm glad they put it in. Yes, it bugged the hell out of me, but seeing the white house being held by Russian soldiers and having to storm it was one hell of an epic moment.
 

Trillovinum

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Anarchemitis said:
All movies and governed by people such as Directors, who first and second want to entertain people and make money.
The prerequisite of earning such a position in video games or film requires experience in the field of Video Games or Film, not the Military, Higher Thinking, Advanced Sciences or Racing.
I see many of you think good strategy can't involve a godd cinematic.
Now that's just in the way you bring it forward.

A cinematic where a special forces operative quickly but quietly takes down three armed guards with his knife and blows up an anti-air tank before the next scene shows the lowflying bombers leveling an enemy stronghold.
Your character (special ops dude in case you didn't notice) could then be playable as he makes his way into the enemy stronghold to retrieve the top secret enemy data.
It doesn't have to be done by showing a group of (retard, half dressed mungo) soldiers storming in through the front gate blowing everything to sh*poo and all dying (save for the protagonist and major characters of course) while half of the bombers go down in flames.

good strategy is not nescesarily boring.