Bathesda, Anti-Christ or not?

[TerraMGP]

This is going to get So much abuse from trolls and flames. I am sorry in advance for making this but I feel I have to.

Now I have heard alot of complaining since Fallout 3 came out with many people apparently disliking Bethesda. This is literally the very first I have ever heard of such dislike from anyone, so at first I was a bit curious. Sure Yatzee had slammed its weaker points and even made up a few, or at least exaggerated them. But that is apparently what he does now and I was convinced that we all just looked in had a good laugh when he was funny and got on with our lives slighlty amused that he mocked MGS4 after making the CHZO games.

Then suddenly I hear people coming up with all kinds of strange complaints. Suddenly a game that I had played for many years and found to be quite stable, reliable and fun was full of bugs I did not know of, bland, and had huge gaping falws I had never spotted in my rather long tenier playing it. Granted what started out as an interesting main plot kind of fell flat by the end of things, but just like Morrowind I always figured people just accepted Bathesda worked best making games where you wander around and fulfill lots of size quests and jobs.

I suppose that for some people though these flaws that I had barely even noticed were like huge gaping slaps in the face. They wondered why each NPC didn't have his or her own voice actor, the landscape I had found to be quite lush and interesting they all claimed fell flat and the interesting stories and backstorys to everything are to others little more than annoyances that are not deep enough for them for one reason or another.

And my brand new copy of Fallout 3? Well in spite of my pre-forum reading experience with a well designed environment and interesting side stories that reminded me quite a bit of Fallout 2 Everyone else seemed furious that the game used the same engine as oblivion and that the main story again fell a bit flat at the end.

So I wonder, asking first for forgiveness from the mods and well reasoned posters be the for or against bathesda, what is it that I am not seeing that makes Bathesda games so bad? Would someone mind explaining, or better yet listing them? Perhaps taking another game they consider good and listing the flaws of the two side by side so that we can compare and contrast? I ask this because I simply do not understand this hatred towards a company that seems to invest quite a bit of time and effort to put out a product that is above par when compared to most of the other offerings put along side of it. I don't think that those who are against bathesda are bad people or foolish, at least not more of them than are in any group, but for those of us who enjoy the games and enjoy the company it should be laid out once and for all why all of this hatred has been pointed towards them.

I thank everyone in advance for making well reasoned, well thought out and respectful posts on this subject. I mean no disrespect to anyone regardless of their personal preferences in gaming.

 

[Logan Westbrook]

For reference, it's Bethesda.

On topic, this is something I've noticed as well. It seems to have become popular to bash Oblivion, which, while having some flaws, is a good game.

 

[RhinoTuna]

*Bethesda.

It's a fun game, but there's some flaws. I don't see what's wrong with pointing them out objectively. You're pretty much saying that second best is good enough.

 

[Reaperman Wompa]

what is it that I am not seeing that makes Bethesda games so bad?

They are popular. Most people like them, then one person stands up and tries to act cool (or is one of those people not satisfied with anything less than perfection) by pointing out problems no one gives a crap about then a huge number of people follow, slamming anything they can think of. Most of them just want to be different. "Look at me, even though it has only two things wrong with it you must notice them...and me!!"

 

[Monkfish Acc.]

I don't know, I don't really have a problem with them. I mean, sure, there is that whole Uncanny Valley thing happening when you talk to NPCs, but that's only in the newer games, so I suppose they'll sort that out eventually.

 

[djeeten]

I'm not sure were you get the feeling that people dislike Bethesda. I find that most people rather like their games. I don't see how saying that Fallout3 runs on the same engine as Oblivion is a complaint either as it is a very good engine for big landscapes and it is still technically up there with the best. I also don't think that yathzee's review was so bad, in fact he seemed to rather like fallout 3.

That being said there are problems with the games Bethesda makes. For me personally the hit and miss voice acting is a major one (more so in Oblivion then in Fallout3 though). It spoils the immersion if I hear the same voice on multiple characters. I would rather just read text and imagine the character's voice. Mass Effect has about the best voice acting I have heard in rpg's and it is proof that it can be done.

I realy think that (a few mindless haters aside) most gamers appreciate games from Bethesda a whole lot. Maybe it is just because of that that you see a lot of people complaining about what they consider to be faults in the game. People tend to complain the most about the things they love.

 

[orifice]

I was a huge morrowind fan. Oblivion for me, seemed to lack the same depth and was dissapointing. In morrowind there were places that were too dangerous for new characters and this was good in my opinion. If you needed to go somewhere dangerous, you would have to make sure you were well equipped and had good enough skills. Oblivion and now fallout 3 dont have this. You can go pretty much anywhere and the enemies are scaled to you and so, never very threatening(very dissapointing and unrealistic),This also means you can plough straight through the game with no stopping or getting side tracked (not good).
This is of course opinion and others may think differently!

 

[AceDiamond]

The engine and methodology behind an Oblivion-esque game still has some glaring faults, but given how i keep getting wrapped up in the Fallout 3 world (and frequently sidetracked due to exploring and finding miscellaneous sidequests), I thoroughly enjoy it.

Don't see what the kerfuffle about Bethesda is.

 

[Altorin]

For reference, it's Bethesda.

On topic, this is something I've noticed as well. It seems to have become popular to bash Oblivion, which, while having some flaws, is a good game.

I only bash Oblivion for the flaws it had, which was basically the levelling system and the lack of minimum levels in their "leveled dungeons" design. I'm very vocal in my disdain of both of those things.

with mods to fix those two things, i loved the game, and Fallout 3 itself addressed both those issues, and other issues that were merely annoyances to me, such as the bad voice acting, so I love it too

 

[Dommyboy]

Bethesda is still a great game company, while sure they are not perfect, is there really any company out there that is? They listen to the audience and pick up what they need to do right.

 

[CmdrGoob]

Oblivion was a step backwards from Morrowind, because of the obnixious monster levelling, more generic and blander world, bad voice acting and less factions. But regardless it was still an above average game, Morrowind was excellent and in theory I'm waiting to see what sort of Fallout 3 mods turn before I buy it, but it sounds great too.

So I don't understand the Bethesda hate either.

 

[KiiWii]

I don't really have a problem with Bethesda at all, and I'm not conforming to the 'lets hate this game' crowd (at least not directly) but i couldn't STAND oblivion. I just couldn't get into it, which is one of my main gripe about buying fallout three, you know, that it apparently plays so much like oblivion. But after a lot of forum time I've decided to get it.
Thats just to start this, what i dont understand is why people notice flaws, and accept them? I mean we're never going to move up in the gaming world with new, better and more interesting gaming experiences if people just stay happy with what they have now, in that case we've got nothing to look forward to but the same FPS' for the next million years only with slightly improved graphics and the exact same story line.
You should find flaws in things, and complain about them, because then it forces developers to improve,. If you think Bethesda is good now, then in a few years time when all these people with apparently illegitimate arguments are still apparently arguing illegitimately, you'll have an improved gaming experience that is always being improved. It's good to like a game, hey its great, but saying 'wow this game was great' is no where near as constructive as 'more voice acting is needed' or 'these parts make the game less immersion'. Once your completely happy with something, then we've lost.

 

[Logan Westbrook]

Thats just to start this, what i dont understand is why people notice flaws, and accept them? I mean we're never going to move up in the gaming world with new, better and more interesting gaming experiences if people just stay happy with what they have now, in that case we've got nothing to look forward to but the same FPS' for the next million years only with slightly improved graphics and the exact same story line.

I don't think that anyone is saying that you shouldn't point out flaws in games, but in the case of Oblivion, people seem to get unduly hung up on the flaws and ignore the good points about the game.

 

[perfectimo]

I think the only people who "hate" Bethesda are the Fallout fans who didn't want there game translated into 3D.

My only problem with Oblivion was that they got rid of all the specifics skills you could level.

 

[Dramatic Flare]

If you needed to go somewhere dangerous, you would have to make sure you were well equipped and had good enough skills. Oblivion and now fallout 3 dont have this.

Wrong. I was watching my friend playing it earlier today. The enemies were not scaled to his level, and that resulted in him dying so many times he wound up going back and doing something else.
Also, I distinctly remember an article about the issue and that was one thing that was mentioned as a specific difference between Fallout 3 and Oblivion.

 

[hellthins]

The biggest issue I have with Fallout 3, even though I'm getting it anyways, is that it just isn't Fallout in terms of gameplay. It's more like a fallout offshoot like that one Brotherhood of Steel game. While you can argue that isometric is dead, turn based tactical clearly isn't dead yet. I can see where they're coming from not making it a top down isometric game, and the graphics really don't matter to me, but that they took what was a great turn based tactical game and changed it into what is, from everything I've gathered, Oblivion with guns and a targeting system, is kind of annoying.

I'll still get it, I'll still love it, but it's not quite Fallout. It's kind of like making Tetris 3 but instead it's Bejewled.

As for Oblivion, Oblivion was in some ways watered down from Morrowind and in some ways better. The combat was actually kind of fun, but the reduction in skills was a little meh. The biggest issue I see with it is Cyrodil just isn't as exotic or alien as Morrowind was. Cyrodil's generic European fantasy we always see in High Fantasy games, Morrowind was much more alien. And while people complain about bugs, and certainly there are a number of bugs in both games, they'll never be as horribly buggy as Daggerfall was.

Oh dear sweet unholy hell, Daggerfall bugs.

Oh, and Dogmeat's a mutt. Not a purebred. Horrible horrible plot hole and Bethesda should clearly be shot for this breach of lore.