Bathesda, Anti-Christ or not?

[poleboy]

I think the main thing that went wrong with Oblivion was that it was simply too predictable. I haven't played FO3, so I can't say if it shares its flaws. After playing for a few hours, you knew exactly what to expect and how the story would turn out. It lacked the major plot twists and otherworldly feeling of Morrowind. They also seem incapable of creating AI of higher than room temperature intelligence for some reason.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

I think the only people who "hate" Bethesda are the Fallout fans who didn't want there game translated into 3D.

My only problem with Oblivion was that they got rid of all the specifics skills you could level.

Oi now, I like Fallout 3! Not as good as 1 and 2 in terms of story/humor but WAY better than 1+2 in terms of combat. And there is nothing lost through the 3d conversion.

I also liked Oblivion, but was never fond of its "You don't matter in the world" style of design.

 

[DirkGently]

I'd agree with this. Try killing a Yagou Bao?! at a low level solo.

Do you mean Yaoi Gui?

And do you mean Yao Guai? [http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Yao_Guai]?

(Richard you sly fox you.)

I used to make that mistake all the time, I kept calling them 'Yaoi Gai' or something like that.
Why didn't the developers just call them Pissed Off Big Bear. Simpler and more accurate.

Because then you wouldn't have the Yogi Bear connection. I did mean Yao Guai. It's quite a hard word to spell from memory...

I can't believe I didn't get that. I feel kinda bad for myself.

I find this "hate what's popular" thing to be getting kind of old. I played Oblivion shortly after the launch of the 360 when i got mine. From day one I loved it. I was staying off the internet, didn't have a guide, and did it pretty much on my own to figure everything out. It was fairly challenging, but it didn't take long to figure out the 100% weakness to magicka trick. I really loved it. I still do, though I play it in shorter bursts. And until I saw Yahtzee's review of it, I didn't actually notice the voice acting that much. Nor did the landscape seem repeated and the same piece of landscape copy-pasted for miles on end. It was big and open and interesting, with not a lot of boundaries as to where I could walk. The only thing I could mention was a lack of fluid animations, but it seems that is there because it was intended to be a First Person game. Ditto Fallout, though it's more apparent because your enemies hip fire their guns and don't seem to be very into the whole 'combat' thing, though that might be just because I played so much COD4 and was used to all their much more different and human-looking animations. And because of games like Assassin's creed where everything is seemingly been mo-cap'd for our enjoyment.

 

[curlycrouton]

A well thought out argument, and I agree with you to an extent. I loved Oblivion, it was one of my all time favourite games, with lush and varying landscapes (despite what Mr. Croshaw may say), a fantastic combat system and a compelling storyline. I also loved the graphics engine they used.

People will always find flaws in every game, because no game is perfect. If a great game is made, people will naturally want to dissapoint all the fanboys (it's true, even I get a kick out of doing it) and point out every last flaw. Bethesda just happen to have included some glaring errors in an otherwise great game, like using a few voice actors for many different parts.

 

[Novan Leon]

Bethesda is still a great game company, while sure they are not perfect, is there really any company out there that is? They listen to the audience and pick up what they need to do right.

Correction, Blizzard IS perfect, their games are just too darn perfect that it's addicting, therefore I no longer play Blizzard games.

 

[Robyrt]

Fallout 3 does not deserve all the hate being leveled at it. It fixes many of the problems with Oblivion, as well as the problems with earlier Fallout games. Think about it:

Combat is now fast and exciting, but still feels like an RPG thanks to VATS
The interface on the 360 is both useful and intuitive
Random encounters are still difficult, but won't cause you to fail the opening quest
Exploration is fun and rewarding, and you are gently encouraged to do so
You aren't completely screwed if your initial character build is poor
Avoiding combat is viable, except on the main quest

Unfortunately, a lot of people can't see past the flaws that remain:
Over-reliance on a handful of voice actors and texture sets
Misallocation of level designers (sidequests are great, main quest is frustrating)
Character animation is jerky and forced

By this system, Fallout scores pretty similarly to Mass Effect, a game with a similar grand scope, enormous quantities of visual detail and voice acting, and karma-based dialogue system. I eagerly await the game that combines the best of both.

 

[WickedSkin]

I liked Fallout 3.

 

[TerraMGP]

Bethesda is still a great game company, while sure they are not perfect, is there really any company out there that is? They listen to the audience and pick up what they need to do right.

Correction, Blizzard IS perfect, their games are just too darn perfect that it's addicting, therefore I no longer play Blizzard games.

See this is where I would disagree totally, but then thats more my personal dislike of MMO games as a concept and the fact that I don't think the Diablo games are very good, or at all different from WoW. But then thats my opinion and based on personal pefrence. I started this thread more because this was the first place I saw hatred towards Bathesda, and saw it en mass, and so I wondered why it was that people felt that way. I fully admit I feel the same way about Blizzards more recent offerings as many may feel about games like Oblivion.

 

[B4D 9R4MM3R]

I don't hate the company, I just don't like Oblivion. I just cannot get into it, and I don't know whether it's the bland/repetitive environments (annoyed me in Mass Effect as well) or the poor gameplay (specifically combat), which for me at least doesn't seem to flow very well nor is intriguing (once again, same with Mass Effect). Finally, I'm not sure that the story telling is very good; it seems to be based on journal entries rather than actual events. I'd rather read a book in that case.

 

[TerraMGP]

Well I can respect that those are not your thing, but at the same time I again think its more a matter of personal preference at that point. I don't really agree that the story is journal-based as I always saw the Journal as more a tool to keep straight in your head those little details you may forget but I can see not enjoying the combat or environments even if I don't agree with it.

Still I think you hit the nail on the head as to why people like myself love this game. Its LIKE a book, only interactive. That is the thing that has motivated me at least, and I am sure many others, to demand games like oblivion. Same reason so many people enjoy JRPGs

 

[hattifnatt]

fallout 3 was kinda 'meh' to be honest.

 

[B4D 9R4MM3R]

I do like JRPGs though. I still am not entirely sure on why I don't like Oblivion, but that fact alone is one of the reasons I do not like it. I just get bored of it after a really short amount of time unlike any other RPG I've ever played, and that includes those with D&D rulesets that I still don't understand.

There's obviously something that stops Oblivion grabbing my attention, but I'm not sure what it is.

 

[Rshady]

I like Bethesda and I personally don't understand the hate leveled at them. Their games are fun, granted Fallout 3's main quest ending wasn't that good, but I'd had played about 50 hours before I even got near to that. Also Oblivion was excellent.

 

[Lt. Sera]

Ah Bethesda..

First off, I liked every game they put out (that I played: Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3). All of their games have a lot of play and replayability in them. Sure the main quest is kind of short, but with Bethesda it's more about the setting and freedom to do what you want. Despite being short, the main quests usually are pretty well done and in Fallout 3, I very much like the path they took.

As for the 'hate', simple. They make big assed games in giant worlds. Bugs and glitches are going to be plentifull. This is strike one for the haters. Strike two being the relatively short main quest. People will rush through any game and then complain it was too short and not immersive enough for them. Then you have your general game flaws. In Oblivion it was the overhyped AI and dialogue, which didn't live up to everyone's expectations. Dialogue especially was horrid in some cases. In Fallout 3 it's the ending of the main story:

Spoiler

Seriously, if you make an ending and you can take rad immune companions along, make sure they are somehow killed before the last scene

and

Spoiler

Not having the summaries of how every place you influenced ended up was a miss

Fallout 3 fixed a lot of flaws, like Oblivion before it. In my opinion, Bethesda is growing into a better developer with every game they put out. So I don't hate them.

Now the really great thing about Bethesda is how they have their construction sets and quite awesome modding community. For reasons unknown to me, the Fallout 3 editor comes a bit late which is a shame, but it's coming.

 

[whyarecarrots]

Bethesda, Ensemble studios, Sid Meier and Blizzard... and maybe Relic remain, to me, the best game makers.

And Valve... [/fanboi]

 

[ElArabDeMagnifico]

It's your opinion. We're not gonna just say "you're wrong, Bethesda DOES suck" - because you're not gonna care. Funny, you kinda oversimplify things but ask an extremist question in the topic title. If I have to pick a side, it's the "Anti-Christ" one I suppose.

 

[Silver]

I couldn't care less about Bethesda, or any gaming company. If they'd release a good game, I'd love the game. If they'd make horrible games, like Oblivion and Fallout 3, I'd dislike the games. It's not about Bethesda. It's about their games.

The same goes for any gaming company, if they make good games, I like them, if they don't, I dislike them. (And I highly dislike Blizzard for making really cool games, hyping them up, and then not releasing them, and for making WoW, but that's another matter.)

I loved Morrowind, for example, which was made by Bethesda. It was an amazing game, it had everything a good game should have. Then they released Oblivion, which had better graphics admittedly, but everything else in the game was worse. The dialogue, the stupid mini-games, the levelling system. I could go on forever.

And then they released Fallout 3. If I compare it to Oblivion, it's a great game. If I compare it to Morrowind, or god forbid, the other Fallout games, it's a horrendous disgrace and another nail in the coffin for a gaming company set on digging their own grave. If I don't compare it to anything at all, it's mediocre at best, but still really bland and boring.


So, for me, it's never about the company behind the game. I couldn't care less. I used to love Blizzards games, that doesn't mean I like WoW, I hate it, with a passion. I used to love Morrowind, that doesn't mean I like Bethesda. I know I whine a lot, I know I complain about every little flaw in a game, probably more than most people. And unlike some people, who I really can't understand the reasoning of, I don't forgive a game's flaws because some fans went and made it better. A lot of people say that Oblivion is great with mods. What does Bethesda have to do with that?

Sorry, I'm ranting again. My point is, if Bethesda released good games I'd love them. Since they insist on releasing bad games, I don't. Simple as that. And that goes for every gaming company out there, except JoWood, because I simultaneously love and hate them. They make some of the best games ever, but also insist on releasing every game in a practically unplayable bug-ridden state. It's like someone baking the loveliest cake ever, and then pouring liters of salt all over it. Bethesda just puts the salt in the recipe instead.

 

[ChocoCake]

Bethesda, Ensemble studios, Sid Meier and Blizzard... and maybe Relic remain, to me, the best game makers.

And Valve... [/fanboi]

Agreed. I love all the Elder Scrolls, I loved Morrowind and Oblivion especially. Didn't particulary like Fallout 1 and 2, but I love Fallout 3. That is my opinion.
O, and I guess I love the games made by the other guys as well (Portal, L4D, Half Life, WoW, etc.)

 

[Limos]

People think it's cool to bash Oblivion, and no matter what Fallout was going to catch a lot of flak.

In all seriousness the landscape in Oblivion sucked balls. It was all trees, grass and 70 degree upward slopes. You couldn't walk ten feet without being attacked by a wolf.