Battlefield Hardline is possibly the best FPS game of 2015.

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Ambient_Malice

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It is both baffling and depressing that in 2015, as people sit around bemoaning how modern FPS games are all "corridor shooter Cowadooty clones", Battlefield Hardline was released to middling reception. It's a stealth-oriented police FPS that encourages the player to approach situations tactically and non-lethally, especially since on the recommended higher difficulties, you can only take a few shots before going down.

The game has good gunplay, great graphics, good acting, and decent enough replay value since you can try to get through the game killing as few people as possible and also solve side cases by collecting evidence and all that stuff. The facial animation is excellent. The game often allows multiple avenues of approach, especially since you can use the grapple hook to get up onto ledges to get into buildings from above and such.

Before Hardline's release, there was endless whining about how "tone deaf" the game was because of some political upheaval in America. But police violence against African Americans is irrelevant to Hardline. Hardline is the story of a Cuban-American cop who ends up surrounded by crooked cops and suffers the consequences. The game has some mild commentary on police violence and how police feel pressured to close ranks and all that jazz. But the story is about crooked police vs hardened criminals. (The fodder of TV shows and movies for decades now.) Also, the game lets you upgrade and use more advanced hardware, drawing accusations of glorifying militarised police, but you spend a lot of the campaign just using a pistol or a tazer or a submachine gun. The game is overall pretty restrained.

But yea... Hardline is a pretty remarkable game. I've played every PC FPS game released this year, and Hardline is the cream of the crop in terms of innovation and polish. It blends Battlefield 4 with Splinter Cell: Blacklist, then adds a pinch of LA Noire. (One of your fellow cops even bears a remarkable resemblance to your crooked partner in LA Noire, which I doubt was a coincidence.) It even has some Bad Company-esque touches. It has missions featuring sections where you just walk and search for evidence. It has a mission where you spend the first section on a relaxing drive as your passengers chat. (It's especially good that the game gives you plenty of opportunities to drive vehicles yourself.) Hardline is the furthest thing from a trigger-happy FPS game. Yet people dismiss it automatically based on prejudice and weird snobbery, and that is both baffling and kinda depressing. The biggest problem with Hardline is its price. The campaign should have been sold as a standalone $20-30 game considering its campaign length. EA should have gone for the same market as Call of Juarez: Gunslinger.
 

Aerosteam

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Battlefield Hardline is going up against heavy hitters such as Evolve, Nothing, Nothing and Nothing. Later this year we'll have Black Ops III, Nothing, Star Wars Battlefront EA, Nothing and Nothing.

This year has been shit for first person shooters so I'm not surprised Hardline is the best one so far.
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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The problem I, and many others, have with Hardline is that it is a military FPS that has been given a thin veneer of Cop tropes to pass for a cop game. It plays like a military game with some lip service paid to "due procedure", giving you a few non-lethal weapons, that you can use if you really want to pretend that any police ever goes around tasering or knocking every person they arrest unconscious. The fact that you are up against "organized crime" that has a manpower in the missions that more resembles "small army" just adds to this. Hardline is trying to be two things, in all its' presentation it is a game about cops but in is' gameplay sensibilities it is a military shooter. The tonal clash that occurs when those two try to blend is what is putting many of us off Hardline.

If I want a good Police FPS I'll go back to SWAT 4 and its' actual focus on police procedure and tactics, instead of Hardlines gung-ho jingoism.
 

Ambient_Malice

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Gethsemani said:
If I want a good Police FPS I'll go back to SWAT 4 and its' actual focus on police procedure and tactics, instead of Hardlines gung-ho jingoism.
Swat 4 is a game where you (can) solve all your problems by shooting people in the face at close range with rubber bullets. Especially grannies. IMO, Hardline is the Rainbow 6: Vegas to Swat 4's Rainbow 6. (Edit: Also, "Jingoistic"? How is Hardline aggressively patriotic? Is it the main character being a Cuban refugee?)

It plays like a military game with some lip service paid to "due procedure", giving you a few non-lethal weapons, that you can use if you really want to pretend that any police ever goes around tasering or knocking every person they arrest unconscious.
Yes and no. The game's central police mechanic is flashing your badge (or waving your finger after you wind up on the wrong side of the law) and cuffing people -- this involves making sure nobody pulls a gun and also watching out for enemies - if you're spotted while making an arrest, everything goes to hell. Your tazer has limited range and limited ammo. Using the tazer is extremely dangerous in combat. The game handwaves what happens to arrested people by making them fall asleep, basically.

Hardline mimicks Eurocom's GoldenEye/007 Legends in that it strongly punishes the player for alerting the enemy while making combat a viable option. It's a stealth game first and foremost.
 

Ambient_Malice

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Aerosteam said:
Battlefield Hardline is going up against heavy hitters such as Evolve, Nothing, Nothing and Nothing. Later this year we'll have Black Ops III, Nothing, Star Wars Battlefront EA, Nothing and Nothing.

This year has been shit for first person shooters so I'm not surprised Hardline is the best one so far.
What about Dying Light and Wolfenstein: The Old Blood? Those were both good-to-great/fantastic. Not as good as Hardline, IMO, but pretty good. Dying Light was a real return to form for Techland.
 

Aerosteam

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Ambient_Malice said:
Aerosteam said:
Battlefield Hardline is going up against heavy hitters such as Evolve, Nothing, Nothing and Nothing. Later this year we'll have Black Ops III, Nothing, Star Wars Battlefront EA, Nothing and Nothing.

This year has been shit for first person shooters so I'm not surprised Hardline is the best one so far.
What about Dying Light and Wolfenstein: The Old Blood? Those were both good-to-great/fantastic. Not as good as Hardline, IMO, but pretty good. Dying Light was a real return to form for Techland.
I don't really consider Dying to be an FPS because it focusses on parkour and melee attacks more than anything, plus the open-worldness is hard to compare with Hardline's linear canpaign structure.

As for The Old Blood, to me it's more like an expansion pack that was sold separate from the game prior and not a complete game by itself, considering it wasn't an advancement at all from The New Order.
 

Ambient_Malice

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Aerosteam said:
I don't really consider Dying to be an FPS because it focusses on parkour and melee attacks more than anything, plus the open-worldness is hard to compare with Hardline's linear canpaign structure.
By this logic, Hardline isn't an FPS because it focuses on arresting people instead of shooting them. In fact, the game repeatedly reminds you during loadscreens how most objectives can be completed without shooting. Dying Light is a game where you use guns by a developer famous for Cowboy FPS games. (Edit: My pet peeve is how Techland are associated with Dead Island instead of the Call of Juarez games.)

As for The Old Blood, to me it's more like an expansion pack that was sold separate from the game prior and not a complete game by itself, considering it wasn't an advancement at all from The New Order.
TOB is a remake of Return to Castle Wolfenstein.
 

Erttheking

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Well, Space Hulk Deathwing is coming out this year (I think) so we have that to possibly break the trend. Plus there's Rainbow Six Siege, which looks enjoyable, if overpriced.
 

Aerosteam

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Ambient_Malice said:
We can argue what is and isn't in a particular genre all day, but I just think a game in the Battlefield franchise is by default an FPS even if you're encouraged to not fire guns (I mean, you're still pointing firearms at the hostiles - just not pulling the trigger half the time) but in the case of Dying Light guns take a complete backseat to the melee weapons and melee combat, hell, I don't think I even remember seeing game footage of the player using a gun for a decent period of time.

As for TOB I'm pretty sure it's much more closely related to TNO than Return to Castle Wolfenstein, like it uses the same mechanics and everything and only really the setting is the same.

Anyway, I don't think I'm going to get anywhere with you so toodle-oo.
 

Ambient_Malice

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Aerosteam said:
Ambient_Malice said:
We can argue what is and isn't in a particular genre all day, but I just think a game in the Battlefield franchise is by default an FPS even if you're encouraged to not fire guns (I mean, you're still pointing firearms at the hostiles - just not pulling the trigger half the time) but in the case of Dying Light guns take a complete backseat to the melee weapons and melee combat, hell, I don't think I even remember seeing game footage of the player using a gun for a decent period of time.
That is a fair point. I suppose it's the same dilemma as Condemned: Criminal Origins, a game which had melee weapons and also firearms. Hardline arguably treats the gun as more of an object with which to intimidate people, but you are always either holding a gun or tazer, except when you're unarmed.

As for TOB I'm pretty sure it's much more closely related to TNO than Return to Castle Wolfenstein, like it uses the same mechanics and everything and only really the setting is the same.
TOB is what they like to call a "re-imagining" of RTCW. Take a modern game and use it as a foundation to remake an old one. I think it stands alone as its own thing in the same way 007: Legends is its own game despite recycling a crapload of content from GoldenEye.

Anyway, I don't think I'm going to get anywhere with you so toodle-oo.
That's a rather pessimistic attitude.
 

Aerosteam

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Ambient_Malice said:
Aerosteam said:
Anyway, I don't think I'm going to get anywhere with you so toodle-oo.
That's a rather pessimistic attitude.
It's just so often no one gets anywhere with discussion like these, especially if the thread doesn't relate to it, I apologise.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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Note: I haven't played Hardline.

I'm guessing the main issue is that Battlefield games are mainly purchased for the multiplayer, the series did start out as MP-only. From what I heard and seen (a couple matches), the MP is disappointing as I heard the balance is poor and has some eye-rollingly bad things like characters saying "grenade ************".

It's cool and all the campaign is good then because I remember most calling the other BF campaigns really bad. I guess Hardline might be like MoH: Warfighter then where one mode sucks and the other is great as Warfighter's MP was probably the best MP of any FPS last-gen while the campaign was just complete garbage.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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I thought the BF4 campaign was better. And visually. I mean that second level in China was a visual sight to behold:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rgwf-Xu-FoE
 

Ambient_Malice

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Samtemdo8 said:
I thought the BF4 campaign was better. And visually. I mean that second level in China was a visual sight to behold:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rgwf-Xu-FoE
I'm extremely fond of Battlefield 4's campaign. Story, gameplay, music -- the works. I prefer BF4's story to Hardline's in a number of aspects. But in terms of gameplay and pacing, I think Hardline is a superior, more innovative game. Hardline is the progression of Battlefield 4's improvements over Battlefield 3. (More open map design, more player agency, and most importantly, more freedom for the player to innovate and tackle the missions using their own playstyle instead of following HUD icons down corridors.)

Even Battlefield 3 has some great moments. (Failing to stop the Nuke in Paris is the culmination of a great mission.) But BF3 dragged on, and its replay value was limited by excessive linearity and excessive scripting.
 

fix-the-spade

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Aerosteam said:
Battlefield Hardline is going up against heavy hitters such as Evolve, Nothing, Nothing and Nothing. Later this year we'll have Black Ops III, Nothing, Star Wars Battlefront EA, Nothing and Nothing.
Deus Ex: Mankind Divided.

Granted it flits between first and third person, but barring a complete disaster it should be the best first person shooter of 2015 (fingers crossed Squenix don't balls it up somehow).
 

stroopwafel

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BF4's campaign was freakin awful. They just took the multiplayer maps and added a shitty campaign with absolute zero inspiration. The story sucks, the characters are pretty much non-existent and you just hop from one exploding building to another 'cause..splosions. Even in the menu the campaign is put below the multiplayer as if the developers themselves are embarrassed by it.

Speaking of which, I actually enjoyed the MP of BF4 quite a lot. Maps are great, shooting is satisfying, graphics are good. It's just that these games(whether you fancy BF or CoD) are so obviously made for MP that the campaign is really just an afterthought they scrambled together during coffee-break.

If I can find Hardline for a tenner or something I'm probably still inclined to play it. But other than that there seems to bo no point buying a BF game other than for the MP. Dying Light remains my favorite 'FPS' of the year though. They took the design philosophy of a modern Ubisoft title(particularly Far Cry) and built it around this totally awesome zombie survival sandbox.

Wolfenstein Old Blood was kinda meh in my opinion. Didn't really add much to the base game, didn't really address any of this game's shortcomings either. Just more of the same. And the final boss sucked.
 

Ambient_Malice

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fix-the-spade said:
Aerosteam said:
Battlefield Hardline is going up against heavy hitters such as Evolve, Nothing, Nothing and Nothing. Later this year we'll have Black Ops III, Nothing, Star Wars Battlefront EA, Nothing and Nothing.
Deus Ex: Mankind Divided.
Dues Ex is a 2016 release. Or at least it is supposed to be.

stroopwafel said:
BF4's campaign was freakin awful. They just took the multiplayer maps and added a shitty campaign with absolute zero inspiration.
I wouldn't know since I've never played the MP. But I didn't notice anything particularly odd about BF4's map design. It's a series of open areas connected by choke corridors.


The story sucks, the characters are pretty much non-existent
Really? I thought the opposite. The game has really strong characterisation -- like Hardline. It's the story of soldiers behind enemy lines. It's the story of how soldiers are forced to decide between following orders and following their conscience. It's a story that repeatedly evokes the "you can't save them all" mentality. The final decision you have to make is foreshadowed by the soldiers you find locked under welded bars, who drown because the water is rising faster than you could possibly cut the bars, something that enrages Irish.

and you just hop from one exploding building to another 'cause..splosions.
I don't recall people complaining when Battlefield: Bad Company 2 did the same thing. I also recall people complaining when Crysis sequels toned down the exploding buildings.

Even in the menu the campaign is put below the multiplayer as if the developers themselves are embarrassed by it.
I'm pretty sure this depends on the version of the game and whether the game is booted into MP or SP mode. In the versions I've played, the main menu has featured Campaign on top.

these games(whether you fancy BF or CoD) are so obviously made for MP that the campaign is really just an afterthought they scrambled together during coffee-break.
My impression is the MP and SP are made by different teams. Making a singleplayer campaign requires significantly more resources than making a multiplayer game. (Things haven't really changed since a single Rareware developer tossed MP into GoldenEye on a whim. It's why GoldenEye: Source has no campaign. It's why multiplayer-oriented game mods are a dime a dozen and well made story-driven ones are much rarer. It's why MP DLC for CoD games is outsourced.) Those cinematic FPS campaigns that people dismiss as an "afterthought" (you're not alone in this view) require far more resources and development blood, sweat, and tears than creating multiplayer maps.

edit:

Take a look at Hardline's credits. The team is vaguely split into MP and SP devs. Different lead devs, different environmental artists, different lighting lead, etc. http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/battlefield-hardline/credits

I suppose it goes some way towards explaining why Hardline's MP looks so visually different to the SP. (Vastly inferior graphics in MP gave the game a weird reputation for having "bad" graphics.)
 

gigastar

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No love for Wolfenstien: The Old Blood?

And really for all its many, many, many faults, at least Evolve didnt commit a mind-blowingly haphazard rehash of gameplay and progression, introduce a bunch of retarded game modes, and then promptly ditch post-launch support to do something else.
 

Ambient_Malice

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gigastar said:
No love for Wolfenstien: The Old Blood?
I felt The Old Blood suffered because it tried to force the player to be stealthy during certain sections using gimmicks instead of competent game design. For example, doors that require you to drop your weapon before proceeding. And also, The Old Blood's combat felt excessively bullet spongy and excessively driven by repetitive waves of enemies, at least in my view.