Being a renegade "at any costs"

[Omega NZ]

I've noticed in the many Mass effect 2 threads showing up that people tend to say that wiping out the rachni, not curing the genophage and just being a right tosser will eventually work to your detriment in M3. Then I started to think about the different outcomes this could have, such as not having the numbers to combat the Reapers for example, and I thought, what if, at the end of M3, you are just overwhelmed? Game over? The homicidal renegade finally gets his cumupince?

Obviously these choices are gray, and both ways have pros and cons, but I just thought this might be an interesting idea. The fact that you get so far and all your choices finally bite you in the ass. Also, I'm talking about the real evil ones here, the ones without a paragon point to be seen. If not, what consequences would you put in e.g less sidequests? Harder difficulty?

 

[SnootyEnglishman]

People will just tend to hate and ignore you and not want to give you special things. Other than that i see nothing else happening to someone who's the evillest bastard to walk the Mass Effect universe unless BioWare goes insane.

 

[TheNumber1Zero]

Wouldn't that make Paragon far better? The point of giving players moral choices is that both versions have their advantages and faults. If the player were to get royally screwed in the 3rd game from something they did in the 1st game, that would pretty much ruin their saved file.


Sounds like a bad idea.

 

[L3m0n_L1m3]

I think we have too many Mass Effect 2 threads lately.

OT: You'll probably just force people to work with you. That, or you'll destroy the reapers... But at a great cost.

 

[RatRace123]

Well, the renegade would also

Spoiler

not destroy the collector base

providing a huge assistance.

I'm not sure that the renegade would be left high and dry they'd just be lacking alot of allies, giving them a harder fight. Though who's to say that they don't attract other allies, I'm sure a hard ass, ruthless evil bastard would be able to scare up some allies (literally)

 

[SendMeNoodz84]

I found out the hard way not to kill ANYONE if you have the option to do so. I didn't kill any "Optional's" in the first game and my friend, who was watching me play just yesterday, told me that in his game he didn't get many of the sidemissions I had completed because he basically killed anyone he could in the first Mass Effect.

 

[Axeli]

Actually there's also at least one major Renegade option that is also about preparing for the Reapers. The very last one you make in ME2, actually.

And I wouldn't call not curing the genophage homicidal. People and the game generally agrees it's the most far-sighted solution. And I fail to see how doing otherwise helps you against the Reapers, as ME3 obviously won't pick up after as much time as is needed to actually have it any effect on the numbers of battle-ready Krogans.

However, I think it should at least make ME3 more difficult if you threw away every chance to reinforce the overall military might of the galaxy. Having it affect whether Shepard can survive ME3 at all would be nice, for one. Or if you want a big and epic effect - whether Earth will be destroyed in the war (because we will all be disappointed if we do not go finally there in the last game of the series).

 

[Omega NZ]

People will just tend to hate and ignore you and not want to give you special things. Other than that i see nothing else happening to someone who's the evillest bastard to walk the Mass Effect universe unless BioWare goes insane.

Yeah, I realize this won't happen, moral complexities and the like, but in the end, is a full renegade gonna give a toss if there are hundreds of thousands of causalities, but in the end reapers are destroyed? Maybe if they are party members. The only way to make it hit home for these characters is to have these renegades lose the battle or something along those lines.

EDIT: Yeah homicidal really wasn't the right word, couldn't decide what word encompassed that "at any costs" attitude.

 

[kampori]

Well, I'm always (almost always) renegade. That's what I LOVE about Mass Effect- Renegade doesn't mean evil- it just means dedicated, honest, brutal.. A true hero.

And this means that being renegade DOESN'T mean wiping out the Rachni, or increasing the genophage.

All of my numerous Mass Effect saves include : (SPOILERS!!)

I save the Rachni- 1) they have done little to me. 2) They deserve freedom & a life away from the evil Cerberus. 3) I KNOW/KNEW they'd help me in the future. As seen in ME2, when we get a message from the Rachni queen. =D That adds a WHOLE SPECIES to your army against the reapers in ME3.

I save the Council- It's better to have the entire galaxy at your side/trust, instead of taking power and everyone hating you.

I increase genophage. 1) The Krogan are a race devowed entirely by violence. Their entire nature & point of being is war, death, killing.. they are a savage species & like any violent pest, need controlling. If I chose options to save the Krogans, they MIGHT have helped me against the Reapers, but within a few generations they'd overpopulate again and overrun the galaxy with war & terror... I'd rather fight the reapers alone (well, with the council races & rachni) than risk the Krogan just afterwards threaten the safety of the galaxy.

The thing is- it's always a conflict of the short term goal (defeating Reapers), or the long term (will this decision come back and bite me in the ass?).. and again, that's what I love about Mass Effect.

 

[Amnestic]

Renegade has had you fucking things up in the name of advancing Humanity; not saving the council, keeping the Rachni/Krogan down, not blowing up the collector base, encouraging war between the Geth and the Quarians to wipe each other out.

Paragon has been putting humanity's interests second in the face of the greater galaxy, encouraging better co-existant peace, saving the Rachni, keeping the Krogan controlled and thriving under Wrex, saving the council and destroying what amounts to Reaper technology which has a tendency to fuck with the heads of whoever messes with it.

Both will fight the Reapers, both will likely win out, it just depends which side you want to fight from: As a Spectre in the service of the council, protecting the galaxy as a hero and pinnacle of justice or as a Cerberus Operative, doing whatever it takes to get the job done because you know that someone has to do the dirty work in order to keep humanity alive and strong.

 

[Altorin]

Renegade has had you fucking things up in the name of advancing Humanity; not saving the council, keeping the Rachni/Krogan down, not blowing up the collector base, encouraging war between the Geth and the Quarians to wipe each other out.

Paragon has been putting humanity's interests second in the face of the greater galaxy, encouraging better co-existant peace, saving the Rachni, keeping the Krogan controlled and thriving under Wrex, saving the council and destroying what amounts to Reaper technology which has a tendency to fuck with the heads of whoever messes with it.

Both will fight the Reapers, both will likely win out, it just depends which side you want to fight from: As a Spectre in the service of the council, protecting the galaxy as a hero and pinnacle of justice or as a Cerberus Operative, doing whatever it takes to get the job done because you know that someone has to do the dirty work in order to keep humanity alive and strong.

definitely the former. I love being a paragon in these games, you feel like a real hero

 

[Amnestic]

definitely the former. I love being a paragon in these games, you feel like a real hero

I'm with you there. Also, everyone should save the Council just so you get to [Right Hook] the Turian 'Fingerquotes' Councilor. I don't care if it's Renegade. That guy's getting smacked. All he ever did in ME1 was ***** at me, I thought he'd have cooled down a bit after I saved his life but nooooo.

Fucker.

 

[Amarok]

If not, what consequences would you put in e.g less sidequests? Harder difficulty?

No no no no NO NO NO NO NO.

The ONLY thing that Paragon and Renegade should affect is the STORY. If you put in shit like that, EVERYONE will be a Paragon.

That's why the "moral choice" shit in games like Oblivion and Fallout 3 fell so flat for me. "Hmm, shall I accept these sidequests and actually, you know, play the game, or shall I shoot them in the face for no particular reason and spend the next few hours twiddling my thumbs?"

 

[oveper]

Well, I'm always (almost always) renegade. That's what I LOVE about Mass Effect- Renegade doesn't mean evil- it just means dedicated, honest, brutal.. A true hero.

And this means that being renegade DOESN'T mean wiping out the Rachni, or increasing the genophage.

All of my numerous Mass Effect saves include : (SPOILERS!!)

I save the Rachni- 1) they have done little to me. 2) They deserve freedom & a life away from the evil Cerberus. 3) I KNOW/KNEW they'd help me in the future. As seen in ME2, when we get a message from the Rachni queen. =D That adds a WHOLE SPECIES to your army against the reapers in ME3.

Where do you get the message from the rachni? I have gone through nearly every enviroment and done almost ever mission and I didnt get any message.

 

[IrrelevantTangent]

definitely the former. I love being a paragon in these games, you feel like a real hero

I'm with you there. Also, everyone should save the Council just so you get to [Right Hook] the Turian 'Fingerquotes' Councilor. I don't care if it's Renegade. That guy's getting smacked. All he ever did in ME1 was ***** at me, I thought he'd have cooled down a bit after I saved his life but nooooo.

Fucker.

I hear you, brother. What, it's not enough for him that I saved his life? And the lives of thousands? And he has the gall to insist Sovereign's a geth ship? Does it LOOK like a geth ship, Councilor? It's red and black and has tentacles! And it came to attack the citadel exactly when I said it would! And it was able to tear apart ships like a knife through butter- can normal geth ships do that? Does that seem like a coincidence to you?!

As for the OT, I don't think we'll have to worry much about our Paragon/Renegade scores affecting ME 3, apart from the usual. I personally played as a mostly Renegade character, but I also had plenty of Paragon points to balance it out. A jerk with a heart of gold, as it were.

My Renegade score may not be through the roof, but it's high enough to let me pass most morality checks and my Paragon score's high enough to allow me to Pet The Dog [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PetTheDog] once in a while. You just have to find the right balance with your 'morality score' and hope for the best in ME 3.

 

[Kollega]

You know, something tells me that in the end, both Paragon and Renegade players will save the galaxy. But Renegade will probably sacrifice all other species to do that and humanity will go all Space-Nazi on the few survivors, while Paragon will successfully defeat them with his many alies, and will either die as a hero and be remembered for eternity or retire to live in the galaxy of prosperity and love.

 

[Amnestic]

Where do you get the message from the rachni? I have gone through nearly every enviroment and done almost ever mission and I didnt get any message.

If you saved the Rachni, there's an Asari just inside Ilium (before you reach Liara's area or the bar) who gives you a message from them.

 

[Timberwolf0924]

In almost all my games I'm mostly paragon, normally 80% while 30% renegade (wait that's 110%!) I know what you're thinking. But thats the size of the bars. Not the full percentage. If someone's being stupid I'm not like.. "Well, at least you're alive." I'm like.. "What, you're alive because you're a coward!" But sometimes ya gotta be mean to get your point across..

 

[kampori]

Well, I'm always (almost always) renegade. That's what I LOVE about Mass Effect- Renegade doesn't mean evil- it just means dedicated, honest, brutal.. A true hero.

And this means that being renegade DOESN'T mean wiping out the Rachni, or increasing the genophage.

All of my numerous Mass Effect saves include : (SPOILERS!!)

I save the Rachni- 1) they have done little to me. 2) They deserve freedom & a life away from the evil Cerberus. 3) I KNOW/KNEW they'd help me in the future. As seen in ME2, when we get a message from the Rachni queen. =D That adds a WHOLE SPECIES to your army against the reapers in ME3.

Where do you get the message from the rachni? I have gone through nearly every enviroment and done almost ever mission and I didnt get any message.

There's an asari on Illium. As you walk out of the docking area, at the market place, before you get to Liara.
It made me feel sooo much better. Love that queen now <3

 

[FallenJellyDoughnut]

Well, I'm always (almost always) renegade. That's what I LOVE about Mass Effect- Renegade doesn't mean evil- it just means dedicated, honest, brutal.. A true hero.

And this means that being renegade DOESN'T mean wiping out the Rachni, or increasing the genophage.

All of my numerous Mass Effect saves include : (SPOILERS!!)

I save the Rachni- 1) they have done little to me. 2) They deserve freedom & a life away from the evil Cerberus. 3) I KNOW/KNEW they'd help me in the future. As seen in ME2, when we get a message from the Rachni queen. =D That adds a WHOLE SPECIES to your army against the reapers in ME3.

I save the Council- It's better to have the entire galaxy at your side/trust, instead of taking power and everyone hating you.

I increase genophage. 1) The Krogan are a race devowed entirely by violence. Their entire nature & point of being is war, death, killing.. they are a savage species & like any violent pest, need controlling. If I chose options to save the Krogans, they MIGHT have helped me against the Reapers, but within a few generations they'd overpopulate again and overrun the galaxy with war & terror... I'd rather fight the reapers alone (well, with the council races & rachni) than risk the Krogan just afterwards threaten the safety of the galaxy.

The thing is- it's always a conflict of the short term goal (defeating Reapers), or the long term (will this decision come back and bite me in the ass?).. and again, that's what I love about Mass Effect.

Finally, someone who realises that Renegade doesn't mean you are the son of satan and you skin kittens and drown puppies. Really, as renegade you can be two kinds of person The Ruthless Guy (like Garrus) or The Asshole (like Zaaed). The Ruthless Guy is the guy who bends the rules for justice, he doesn't bother with talking to the bad guy, he just fucks up thier shit, whereas the asshole, is just an asshole, plain and simple, but he still has to save the world.