Blizzard and Competitive PvP

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Paragon Fury

The Loud Shadow
Jan 23, 2009
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Maybe I'm just realizing it now and am behind the curve - but does it seem like Blizzard doesn't actually understand how to make GOOD Competitive PvP, either stand alone or as part of another game? With the exception of Starcraft (and Warcraft 1-3, being the same games essentially with different themes) it doesn't seem that they do.

WoW has always had PvP of a kind, but it's always been hugely unbalanced at the best of times and Blizzard seems to have no idea how properly balance healing vs. DPS, crowd control or how to even include Tank specs in PvP. And since Holinika took over PvP balancing and play has been an active dumpster fire continuing into Legion.

Diablo cares so little about PvP they didn't even include it at first in the 3rd game, and even in the past it was merely an anything goes sideshow they cared little about.

Starcraft/Warcraft have traditionally been their best efforts, but after Wings of Liberty they seem to have completely forgotten how to make their PvP enjoyable for anyone who isn't almost a professional...or Korean.

Hearthstone, while a fun distraction at times, as a PvP is terrible as it relies too heavily on RNG and has very limited play options even compared to TCGs like Pokemon and Yu-gi-Oh, much less the king of the hill Magic. I feel like it was only successful because it was basically the only good and fully functional digital card game at the time - Magic wouldn't come out with the much better Duels/Origins until well after HS came out.

Heroes of the Storm is and was a laughable excuse for a MOBA - people wanted Blizzard DotA and instead got Baby's First MOBA. It's pretty much inferior in every way to all three other major MOBAs - League, DotA 2 and SMITE - and got so bad at one point that it was suspected that it was only surviving because of the money generated by HS and WoW (it was so bad that even searching as a Support, the role with the lowest queue times and highest demand often took upwards of 5 minutes to find a match).

And then we come to Overwatch, Blizzard's most recent and perhaps respectable attempt. And I have to admit - it looks AMAZING, has great characters and stories...but that is because Blizzard is great at PvE. As a PvP game...it leaves much to be desired. Outside of Widowmaker and Hanzo, mechanical skill means little in the game - in fact they purposely have changed and designed characters to require LESS mechanical skill. It's competitive MM rating is absurdly frustrating and broken (as any visit to the forums or personal experience can attest to). It has been wildly unbalanced since Beta, and only gotten worse during live. It has this odd mix of personal effort being almost pointless...yet having even one dipshit on your team is a death sentence. And they're taking their Blizzard Classic sweet ass time fixing anything - even the wildly broken since Beta Roadhog hook is just finally being addressed (almost a year later).

You're...1 for 5 on good PvP there Blizzard.
 

Hawki

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I can't comment on every example but:

Paragon Fury said:
Starcraft/Warcraft have traditionally been their best efforts, but after Wings of Liberty they seem to have completely forgotten how to make their PvP enjoyable for anyone who isn't almost a professional...or Korean.
I really can't agree there. I mean, okay, Warcraft III and StarCraft were no slouches, but as someone who's played SC2 to death and still improving (started off in bronze, now in gold), SC2 PvP is at the top of its game. If the argument is that "you can only enjoy StarCraft II if you're a professional," from experience, that argument can be leavied just as readily on SC1. And since you've sung the praises of DotA 2, which is regarded as one of the most newbie-hostile games out there, isn't that a tad hypocritical?

Paragon Fury said:
Heroes of the Storm is and was a laughable excuse for a MOBA - people wanted Blizzard DotA and instead got Baby's First MOBA. It's pretty much inferior in every way to all three other major MOBAs - League, DotA 2 and SMITE - and got so bad at one point that it was suspected that it was only surviving because of the money generated by HS and WoW (it was so bad that even searching as a Support, the role with the lowest queue times and highest demand often took upwards of 5 minutes to find a match).
I can't comment on the other major MOBAs (well, only that DotA 1 was cancer, and DotA 2 is meant to be more of the same), but HotS is easily one of the most enjoyable games that I've played in the last few years. Lots of map variety, lots of hero variety, some of the most unique takes on the genre I've seen, matches usually last in the 20 minute range, etc. Queue times can be extremely high at times, but on average, it only takes me 1-2 minutes to find a match.

Paragon Fury said:
(and Warcraft 1-3, being the same games essentially with different themes)
...da fuq?

Okay, maybe, MAYBE you could argue that Warcraft I and II are "the same game," if only because they both use identical armies, and that Warcraft is building on Warcraft I in regards to control improvements, and the introduction of naval and air forces, but Warcraft III is a different beast altogether.
 

SlumlordThanatos

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Aug 25, 2014
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In other news, the sky is blue, and grass is green.

Really, I feel like Blizzard has lost their touch in the past few years, and have managed to survive for no other reason than that they are really, really, really good at polishing their games and having ridiculously strong art and character design. The games themselves are plagued with issues; baffling design decisions, poor balancing, and the developer's inability to deal with complaints are only a few of the many issues their most recent games have had.

I probably only continue to play Overwatch because I can see the potential the game has, and the jury is still out on whether or not Blizzard can realize that potential. But as it stands now, Overwatch still feels...incomplete.

Hearthstone has improved, especially with the most recent expansion, but Blizzard could stand to place less emphasis on random effects. Just because you can introduce RNG, doesn't mean you should go overboard.

Diablo III is desperate for updates. They've been overdue for an expansion for a while now (Reaper of Souls was released almost three years ago), and the upcoming Necromancer class looks like it was part of a canceled expansion, before being sold separately.

And I can't speak for the newest WoW expansion, though everyone I've spoken to has said that WoW is as good as it has ever been.
 

09philj

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SlumlordThanatos said:
I probably only continue to play Overwatch because I can see the potential the game has, and the jury is still out on whether or not Blizzard can realize that potential. But as it stands now, Overwatch still feels...incomplete.
All they need to do is finish cannibalising TF2. Overwatch is crying out for PvE, and an alternative game mode roster. Letting community modders at the map tools wouldn't hurt either.
 

The Madman

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Paragon Fury said:
Heroes of the Storm is and was a laughable excuse for a MOBA - people wanted Blizzard DotA and instead got Baby's First MOBA. It's pretty much inferior in every way to all three other major MOBAs - League, DotA 2 and SMITE - and got so bad at one point that it was suspected that it was only surviving because of the money generated by HS and WoW (it was so bad that even searching as a Support, the role with the lowest queue times and highest demand often took upwards of 5 minutes to find a match).
Ouch. You might not like Hots but it's not actually half bad... But then I'm also such a casual scrub that I couldn't handle the toxicity and ridiculous learning curve of LoL or Dota2, so I realize my opinion on the genre is worth less than dirt in those sorts of community.

But, y'know, it's fun for plebs like me.