Can and should adult Western animation move past comedy?

[CaptJohnSheridan]

I have heard that animation is cheaper than CGI. Why can't they use this medium to create awesome space adventures and epic fantasy?

Should adult Western animation go beyond comedy?

 

[PapaGreg096]

Already replied to this on Toonzone soooo.

Yes and Yes, however the West still see adult animation as South Park and while we have adult cartoons with deep themes(for example Bojack Horseman) they are still considered at least slice of life and action in animation is more expensive then slice of life

 

[Erttheking]

Yes and yes. I'm tired of all adult animation being south park in some way, shape or form.

 

[Thaluikhain]

It seems there's a stigma that animation is for kids, or for stuff based on comics that nobody actually watches.

Mind you, the big budget attempt of the final fantasy movie might not have helped.

 

[TakerFoxx]

Should. Most fucking definitely.

Can? In theory, but it hasn't really made much of an effort.

 

[Zontar]

I've been demanding a proper Warhammer 40kek or X-com series for years. Problem is Western animation that attempts to be somewhat substantial also makes the mistake of using 3d animation for inexplicable reasons (seriously how much better would Clone Wars and Rebels be if CGI was used to touch up 2d animation instead of being the entire show?)

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

I remember showing the Starcraft II trailer to my dad, and when I told him it was a game he said "Oh, that's too bad. If you already have the writers, the animators and the actors in studio, just make the fucking movie."

And since then it's been my guiding thought on super detailed 3D animation. Scrap the shit game and mediocre story, take another whack at the script, and make a fucking movie. Starcraft II would have been infinitely better as 3 movies, Resident Evil Degeneration style. Niche appeal, sure. But amazing to those few of us that watch it with drinking buddies and come on. With the exception of WOW and Call of Duty, all games are Niche these days.


So yes. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Make serious Western animated movies by taking the budget of a AAA title and making a movie. At this point there's so little to gameplay you might as well.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

I've been demanding a proper Warhammer 40kek or X-com series for years. Problem is Western animation that attempts to be somewhat substantial also makes the mistake of using 3d animation for inexplicable reasons (seriously how much better would Clone Wars and Rebels be if CGI was used to touch up 2d animation instead of being the entire show?)

Allow me to be of service Zontar

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.942247-The-Lord-Inquisitor-Prologue

 

[Zontar]

I've been demanding a proper Warhammer 40kek or X-com series for years. Problem is Western animation that attempts to be somewhat substantial also makes the mistake of using 3d animation for inexplicable reasons (seriously how much better would Clone Wars and Rebels be if CGI was used to touch up 2d animation instead of being the entire show?)

Allow me to be of service Zontar

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.942247-The-Lord-Inquisitor-Prologue

Oh I've seen it, but 10 minute only goes so far.

 

[Zontar]

It should. We had a thread about this like two days ago.

I've been demanding a proper Warhammer 40kek or X-com series for years. Problem is Western animation that attempts to be somewhat substantial also makes the mistake of using 3d animation for inexplicable reasons (seriously how much better would Clone Wars and Rebels be if CGI was used to touch up 2d animation instead of being the entire show?)

Yeah, I don't really like CG much either. Even Pixar's movies I feel would be better in 2D. It's sad to think that if they made another Fantasia in forty-four years, it would be full CG. When I watch good 2D animation, I feel there is more effort than with CG, since 3D animators just create the model and then manipulate it in the program. Someone here told a while back that CG is less expensive, which I guess says it all. It looks more artificial and sterile.

The worst part is using computer 3d modelling is currently used in Japan, Korea and China to give a 3d backbone to a 2d image using multilayered something or other that I can't remember the name of, allowing for dynamic fluid animation to be easier and cheaper then ever. Right when Hollywood abandoned 2d animation was when it became easier to use the damn thing then ever before. We kind of got a peak at what this could do with a big budget with Atlantis the Lost Empire, but that was when it was very new and almost not used at all (and it was still to wonderful visual effect).

 

[Casual Shinji]

Yeah, I don't really like CG much either. Even Pixar's movies I feel would be better in 2D. It's sad to think that if they made another Fantasia in forty-four years, it would be full CG. When I watch good 2D animation, I feel there is more effort than with CG, since 3D animators just create the model and then manipulate it in the program. Someone here told a while back that CG is less expensive, which I guess says it all. It looks more artificial and sterile.

That's selling it a bit short I think. I'm more of a 2D guy myself, but if all it took was a 3D model and a program to manipulate it everyone could make Pixar/Disney level movies, and they obviously can't. The difference between the aforementioned and Dreamworks is already noticable. You still need people with skills in animation, character design, and coloring, whether it be 2D or 3D.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Probably a market issue, people expect cartoon looking things to remain in the cartoon realm and will not take it seriously enough. So creators just don't want to go there unless the topic fits.

But I would love to have extensive Warhammer 40k series, they got so much lore it is crazy, sadly also crazy people owning the franchise.

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

Yes to both, and it's way fucking overdue. Anime has given us adaptations of Berserk, Parasyte, Monster... basically any seinen manga adaptation you can think of. Now where is my adaptation of Sandman (seriously, you could never do Sandman in live action, it's just not gonna happen), Mark Millar's Nemesis, hell, Watchmen? Even if you just made adaptations of western comics (excluding superhero stuff obviously) you'd have decades worth of sublime material to turn into animation. Bojack Horseman might actually be a pioneer in this, since I struggle to call season 3 a comedy anymore, and unlike South Park or Family Guy that occasionally flirt with dark themes, Bojack Horseman actually has lasting consequences. It's a testament to the stigmatization of animation in the western world when a tragedy story about a man's struggle with fading fame and alienating everyone around him still has to wear the skin of a Hollywood satire with animals instead of people and currraaaaayyyzy side plots and running gags. Take the comedy aspect out of Bojack Horseman, and you have Requiem for a Dream levels of dark tragedy hiding behind the pasta strainers and drug jokes.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

Problem is Western animation that attempts to be somewhat substantial also makes the mistake of using 3d animation for inexplicable reasons (seriously how much better would Clone Wars and Rebels be if CGI was used to touch up 2d animation instead of being the entire show?)

I dunno, I think both shows take full advantage of being CGI. I love the 2D Clone Wars cartoon as much as the next guy, but the lightsabers looked like glowing dildo bats and space battles were so jarring. Both animation styles have their advantages, but for what TCW was trying to accomplish (very expensive blockbuster-level action for a 20 episode show for 6 seasons), I think 3D was a better choice.

 

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

Move past? No, i see no reason for that. Yeah, it'd be good if it could expand beyond that genre.

 

[RaikuFA]

Yes to both, and it's way fucking overdue. Anime has given us adaptations of Berserk, Parasyte, Monster... basically any seinen manga adaptation you can think of. Now where is my adaptation of Sandman (seriously, you could never do Sandman in live action, it's just not gonna happen), Mark Millar's Nemesis, hell, Watchmen? Even if you just made adaptations of western comics (excluding superhero stuff obviously) you'd have decades worth of sublime material to turn into animation. Bojack Horseman might actually be a pioneer in this, since I struggle to call season 3 a comedy anymore, and unlike South Park or Family Guy that occasionally flirt with dark themes, Bojack Horseman actually has lasting consequences. It's a testament to the stigmatization of animation in the western world when a tragedy story about a man's struggle with fading fame and alienating everyone around him still has to wear the skin of a Hollywood satire with animals instead of people and currraaaaayyyzy side plots and running gags. Take the comedy aspect out of Bojack Horseman, and you have Requiem for a Dream levels of dark tragedy hiding behind the pasta strainers and drug jokes.

I know there's an anicomic of watchmen. Not the same thing but it's close.

Also I just started s2 of Bojack so I can't judge it yet.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

Yes, but I've encountered this weird situation concerning a few people I know.

My mother really liked The Last Airbender[footnote]you know that piece of crap M Night Shyamalan made?[/footnote], she was upset that there probably wouldn't be a sequel. I told her there was a TV show that was much better and would complete the story for her, but she refused to watch it, because it was animated.

Until we can shake the stigma that anything animated is for kids and CGI makes it somehow acceptable for adults [footnote]James Cameron's Avatar is basically all animated, but including one real life human and all of a sudden it's okay[/footnote], we will not see serious, full animation aimed at adults, outside of a niche audience. That being said, there is hope. The new Samurai Jack is looking promising and TV is overall more concerned with budget, so it's a tempting course for them. There's also newer generations that carry less of this stigma, because being an adult now doesn't necessarily mean giving up those things one loved as a child.

 

[The Philistine]

I'd go a few steps further than just scifi and fantasy, bring on the animated dramas, mysteries, horror, thrillers, and documentaries. There's so many gaps an animated medium could fill better than straight cgi with live action. South Park and super heros get old after awhile.

Yes, but I've encountered this weird situation concerning a few people I know.

My mother really liked The Last Airbender[footnote]you know that piece of crap M Night Shyamalan made?[/footnote], she was upset that there probably wouldn't be a sequel. I told her there was a TV show that was much better and would complete the story for her, but she refused to watch it, because it was animated.

Until we can shake the stigma that anything animated is for kids and CGI makes it somehow acceptable for adults [footnote]James Cameron's Avatar is basically all animated, but including one real life human and all of a sudden it's okay[/footnote], we will not see serious, full animation aimed at adults, outside of a niche audience. That being said, there is hope. The new Samurai Jack is looking promising and TV is overall more concerned with budget, so it's a tempting course for them. There's also newer generations that carry less of this stigma, because being an adult now doesn't necessarily mean giving up those things one loved as a child.

I'm trying to wrap my head around the thought that The Last Airbender wasn't made extensively for kids, even more than the cartoon series. Just... whaaa?

 

[9tailedflame]

I'm not sure moving beyond is exactly the right thing, that would imply there would be no more comedy, but yes, i think it should expand out more into other stuff as well. I think we're on our way though, animated western kids shows are more well-written and approach more adult subject matter than they ever have.