Cheating AI

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Blatherscythe

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Oct 14, 2009
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Have you ever faced a computer oppenent that you could swear was playing by a different set of rules or knew what moves you were making? I have. I'd decided to break out my dad's copy of Starcraft, and oh my god does the AI in a custom match cheat or at the very least, has an unfair advantage.

The way me and my RTS ethusiest friend figured this out was after a few matches. From the camera angle I thought that there was only one way into my base, which I had fortified with bunkers and missle turrets. Infortunately there was a small path from behind some raised land that the Zerg poured though first try, they never saw the defenses I had set up.
What also raised a few hairs was when I was playing on crystalysis, I was never attacked and made a shitload of defenses, when I roll into the enemy base I see they didn't set a damn thing up aside from the Zerg equivilent to a barracks, because the crystals blocking the path didn't trigger them to make air based units they were simply harvesting resources.
But the worst example came from my latest game. I decided to fight Terrans this time, I had a slight problem with a marine rush when my defences weren't up, but I got my bunkers up. Unfortunately, the AI was aware I haden't build any detectors for some reason (seriously, I haden't been attacked in a good long while) and I kept getting nuked by his fucking ghost. I eventually rage quit when I realized how the game itself helps the AI.

For starters you can only select 12 units at a time and to my knowledge you cannot hotkey different groups, this makes it difficult to use large armies as a human, but the computer shows no issue with controlling large groups. Second of all is the way the computer can do multiple things (IE set up buildings) in what a human could call a single click. Finally it's the way they can use builders, they can set them on different resource nodes in again, a single click. It seems to me that Starcraft was successful for it's multiplayer because the two players have at least the same capabilities as one another.

So what AI in what game to you seems to be cheating or has an advantage a human has no chance of replicating?
 

DoPo

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Jan 30, 2012
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Whoo, boy, Starcraft...yeah. I think the AI doesn't cheat per se, it's just able to do 100-ish APM with a high degree of precision and almost no thinking time. In short, yes, cheating.

But as for my worst, I'd definitely nominate Worms. The enemy can pull of shots that should be impossible for any human. sometimes it manages to get a bazooka through a gap that's smaller than in. By using the wind to guide the projectile. Oh, and then hits your worm square in the body for maximum damage. But the bazookas are somewhat easy, they totally mock you with grenades. Bazookas miss occasionally, or at least don't inflict maximum damage, grenades almost exclusively do full damage when the AI is using them. To make it worse, the slimy bastards set up the timer and the throw so the grenade would explode exactly before it hits your worm, even if it had to ricochet one or three times beforehand. The AI is actively trolling with those shots. They suck with pretty much everything else but damn the bazooka and the grenade.

Also, Heroes 3. The AI is a cheating bastard it is. At least it's slightly more manageable...until you are hit with an army that you simply cannot counter even had you had awesome resource influx from the beginning.
 

aattss

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May 13, 2012
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In my opinion, it's only okay for the AI to be better if the game admits it. It's okay for a thousand-man army to crush you (everyone likes a good challenge), but not for them to claim that they were just one guy who out-witted you with cleverness and intelligence.
 

Hazy992

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Aug 1, 2010
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The rubberbanding in Mario Kart immediately comes to mind. Fucking cheating bastards.
 

370999

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May 17, 2010
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aattss said:
In my opinion, it's only okay for the AI to be better if the game admits it. It's okay for a thousand-man army to crush you (everyone likes a good challenge), but not for them to claim that they were just one guy who out-witted you with cleverness and intelligence.
You know I think the lead designer of Dawn of War had a contradictory opinion (I'm not saying it's better) were he believed it was absolutely necessary for the computer to cheat to give the player a decent challenge, but you can never let the player find out or for it to be too obvious as that shatters the illusion of the system.
 

BloatedGuppy

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The Civilization and Heroes of Might and Magic series are both renowned for their cheatin' ways on higher difficulty levels. Heroes doesn't even try to be subtle about it, it's all "because fuck you, that's why" before conjuring units out of thin air.

Speaking of Civilization, Civ5 is free to play on Steam this upcoming weekend and 75% off to buy if you want it thereafter. It's an imperfect game, but still quite compelling, and with the mods and the upcoming expansion pack has a lot of potential to improve by leaps and bounds.
 

MetalDooley

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Hazy992 said:
The rubberbanding in Mario Kart immediately comes to mind. Fucking cheating bastards.
Hoo boy Mario Kart is probably the cheatiest series I've ever played.MK64 was probably the worst offender
 

Hazy992

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MetalDooley said:
Hazy992 said:
The rubberbanding in Mario Kart immediately comes to mind. Fucking cheating bastards.
Hoo boy Mario Kart is probably the cheatiest series I've ever played.MK64 was probably the worst offender
Have you played Modnation Racers? Fucking hell, that is one cheating ass game!
 

MetalDooley

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Hazy992 said:
MetalDooley said:
Hazy992 said:
The rubberbanding in Mario Kart immediately comes to mind. Fucking cheating bastards.
Hoo boy Mario Kart is probably the cheatiest series I've ever played.MK64 was probably the worst offender
Have you played Modnation Racers? Fucking hell, that is one cheating ass game!
Nah I don't have a PS3 so never played it.Sounds like cheating AI is a recurring thing with Kart racers though.I wonder if the recent Sonic one was as bad
 

Hazy992

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MetalDooley said:
Hazy992 said:
MetalDooley said:
Hazy992 said:
The rubberbanding in Mario Kart immediately comes to mind. Fucking cheating bastards.
Hoo boy Mario Kart is probably the cheatiest series I've ever played.MK64 was probably the worst offender
Have you played Modnation Racers? Fucking hell, that is one cheating ass game!
Nah I don't have a PS3 so never played it.Sounds like cheating AI is a recurring thing with Kart racers though.I wonder if the recent Sonic one was as bad
Probably was. Like you said, cheating AI seems to be a part of kart racers
 

Dryk

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370999 said:
You know I think the lead designer of Dawn of War had a contradictory opinion (I'm not saying it's better) were he believed it was absolutely necessary for the computer to cheat to give the player a decent challenge, but you can never let the player find out or for it to be too obvious as that shatters the illusion of the system.
The problem is that the illusion always shatters one way or the other. Especially in a game like Dawn of War II where it's relatively easy to keep track of who should have how many resources at a given time.

Also when the enemy is rolling a fresh tank into your base just as you manage to take out the previous one it's pretty obvious
 

BloatedGuppy

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Hazy992 said:
Probably was. Like you said, cheating AI seems to be a part of kart racers
It's not just kart racers. Many racers seem to have cheating AI. It's virtually impossible to separate yourself from the pack.
 

Hazy992

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BloatedGuppy said:
Hazy992 said:
Probably was. Like you said, cheating AI seems to be a part of kart racers
It's not just kart racers. Many racers seem to have cheating AI. It's virtually impossible to separate yourself from the pack.
Annoying isn't it? No matter how skilled you are you can't pull away. Doesn't make any sense
 

Soopy

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Jul 15, 2011
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Need for Speed Carbon and GRID.

Wasn't so much "rubberbanding" as it was just a fucking tether to your rear bumper...
 

ShadowKatt

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I've got an old, old game from way back when on the NES: RC Pro-Am. It was a racing game, four cars in 4 colors(Red, Blue, Green, and Orange, with you as Red).

Every so often though, particularly the better you were doing the earlier it happened, the orange car would suddenly take off at about 3 or 4 times speed. If you did not shoot it with a missile, it was impossible to catch. The best you could get was second place, and the car, once it started doing its hyperspeed trick, did it on every track thereafter.
 

laidtorest195

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The worst I find is when you have to play games of luck like black jack or Poker in games like Red Dead or New Vegas. I swear those bastards have x-ray vision or something.
 

DoPo

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Jan 30, 2012
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BloatedGuppy said:
Speaking of Civilization, Civ5 is free to play on Steam this upcoming weekend and 75% off to buy if you want it thereafter. It's an imperfect game, but still quite compelling, and with the mods and the upcoming expansion pack has a lot of potential to improve by leaps and bounds.
Let's imagine that there is somebody who has no experience with the Civilisation series aside from briefly playing Civ 1 (or maybe 2) where they managed to research the alphabet right before they were roflstomped over. Let's assume that this theoretical somebody is, however, interested in getting into the series. For the sake of it being easier to communicate, let's call our hypothetical, fictional somebody "DoPo", because that's the first name that comes to mind for some reason. So, would you recommend this person getting Civ 5 (especially since it's 75% off) or would DoPo better go for Civ 4 or maybe both?

OT: I just remembered - Mortal Kombat 4. Damn, that AI. If you go next to an opponent and press grab, there is a good chance that they would use a grab on you. Even if they are on the ground or whatever. Especially evil if fighting Goro - his grabs drain about a quarter or a third of your health.
 

BloatedGuppy

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DoPo said:
Let's imagine that there is somebody who has no experience with the Civilisation series aside from briefly playing Civ 1 (or maybe 2) where they managed to research the alphabet right before they were roflstomped over. Let's assume that this theoretical somebody is, however, interested in getting into the series. For the sake of it being easier to communicate, let's call our hypothetical, fictional somebody "DoPo", because that's the first name that comes to mind for some reason. So, would you recommend this person getting Civ 5 (especially since it's 75% off) or would DoPo better go for Civ 4 or maybe both?

OT: I just remembered - Mortal Kombat 4. Damn, that AI. If you go next to an opponent and press grab, there is a good chance that they would use a grab on you. Even if they are on the ground or whatever. Especially evil if fighting Goro - his grabs drain about a quarter or a third of your health.
Civ 4 is the more complete and feature rich game, is cheaper, and has better balance and overall flow of game play.

Civ 5 is (much) prettier, more intuitive/easy to pick up, has more integrated mod support, and replaces the extremely annoying "uberstack" combat system with the troubled but more promising "one unit per hex" system.

Civ 5 has the expansion on the way and lots of DLC, and with mods and patches will likely be steadily improving for some time yet. Civ 4 is now more or less a static product outside of mods.

Civ 4 is cheaper (mitigated somewhat by the Steam sale, but Civ 5's expansion won't be inexpensive).

Pick your poison!