Constantly evolving language.

[electric discordian]

Having recently worked in some schools around children of the early to mid teens I am quite taken aback by the entirely different usage of words children use. Am I getting old? But that's not the question to be posed in this thread.

Is it okay to for example (and I use this because I read thread with this in two minutes ago), use the word "Gay" to mean rubbish? I doubt that many children have the concept that gay means homosexual, it used to mean happy and I have met some of the most miserable homosexuals in the world just recently. So why is it okay for "Gay" people to feel offended when someone uses a word in an entirely different context.

You don't listen to a song from the nineteen twenties and assume everyone was homosexual so why does a homosexual assume the use of the word gay is a direct affront to what is essentially a life style choice.

Mind you given that my life style choice has led to my consumption of copious pies I am now considered "fat" which I understand means good so I am be not one to talk.

Sick also means good.

This eludes my reasoning mind and makes my head want to explode.

Please note I am not seeking to flame anyone who is gay, but if I have done so accidentally I apologise. I have plenty of fifty pence pieces for my Devils advocate machine this evening!

 

[El Poncho]

I hate when people say something is sick meaning it is good, I also hate when people call things gay meaning that it is awful, usually I say:'Don't use words you don't know the meaning of.'

 

[Nwabudike Morgan]

I'm just sick of hearing that something is an EPIC FAIL or that something is FULL OF WIN. It's even worse when I hear it outside of the internet, which is all the fucking time when there are 13 year olds around.

The internet has created this nightmare world where people only speak in catchphrases.

 

[Matt_LRR]

If, tomorrow, a linguistic trend took root in which people used the word "n*****" to mean "of poor quality" would that be ok?

"don't buy a ford, they're totally n*****s"

"The xbox 360 is n*****ed. I've replaced it 4 times, but it keeps breaking."

Is that a reasonable and inoffensive evolution of language?

-m

 

[Tharwen]

"don't buy a ford, they're totally n*****s"

"The xbox 360 is n*****ed. I've replaced it 4 times, but it keeps breaking."

That sounds like it should somehow be worked into an XKCD strip...

 

[Brainst0rm]

Even back in High School, when I was somewhat of a homophobe, I found people calling things that are bad 'gay' to be in bad taste.

'Sick', unfortunately, is here to stay.

I've always thought it would be FASCINATING to track the evolution of slang words that don't make any sense. Just, to see what routes of logic and kind of people come up with and accept these words before they become common. Yeah, I'm an English Major...oh well!

 

[SageRuffin]

I just hate when people toss around the word "fag" and "******".

Now, taking 21st century jargon into account, I'm neither (at least last time I checked), but it still bugs me how people just throw the term around like a Frisbee in the park, especially when they don't know what the terms really mean.

Alas... people are stupid.

 

[electric discordian]

If, tomorrow, a linguistic trend took root in which people used the word "negroes" to mean "of poor quality" would that be ok?

"don't buy a ford, they're totally negroes"

"The xbox 360 is negroes. I've replaced it 4 times, but it keeps breaking."

Is that a reasonable and inoffensive evolution of language?

-m

You have a good point, but I would say why not? The only thing which divides us are our needs to cling to the past. Racism is entirely subjective if we did not set people aside for special treatment we would all be equal.

Everyone in the world should be willing to be offended as that is what gives us our common humanity. We can then divide people into idiots and good people. Rather than concerning ourselves with race and religion as a socially constructed stumbling block!

 

[Eldarion]

If, tomorrow, a linguistic trend took root in which people used the word "n*****" to mean "of poor quality" would that be ok?

"don't buy a ford, they're totally n*****s"

"The xbox 360 is n*****ed. I've replaced it 4 times, but it keeps breaking."

Is that a reasonable and inoffensive evolution of language?

-m

If those words are used in different context to mean something different without anyone getting offended then I think it would show how tolerant that society has become not the other way around. If say for example we let people use the word "******" as a slang term for buddy then is stops being a hate word doesn't it? After all words are only hateful if you perceive them to be.

Hate words or offensive terms are only hateful or offensive if that is the meaning society gives them. Why don't we just let the past meanings of these words be forgotten so that these words can stop hurting peoples feelings?

 

[SnipErlite]

Ahhh well, such is life. People are stupid, obnoxious or daft. And you feel like you've had, quite enoughhhhhh....

/Eric Idle.

Sorry. Erm. Yes. It's stupid, but that's how children and teenagers are I'm afraid. Right little bastards (Yes I'm a teenager).

 

[Matt_LRR]

If, tomorrow, a linguistic trend took root in which people used the word "negroes" to mean "of poor quality" would that be ok?

"don't buy a ford, they're totally n*****s"

"The xbox 360 is n*****ed. I've replaced it 4 times, but it keeps breaking."

Is that a reasonable and inoffensive evolution of language?

-m

You have a good point, but I would say why not? The only thing which divides us are our needs to cling to the past. Racism is entirely subjective if we did not set people aside for special treatment we would all be equal.

Everyone in the world should be willing to be offended as that is what gives us our common humanity. We can then divide people into idiots and good people. Rather than concerning ourselves with race and religion as a socially constructed stumbling block!

because these words, have evolved meanings as classifying terms relating to groups of people. And (in the case of "gay") the evolution from "homosexual" to "rubbish" proceeded along the line of "gay" being something you didn't want to be. To say that "you're gay!" to a kid on the playground is not calling someone homosexual per se, but namecalling someone based on a trait that is seen as "undesirable". The leap of that term to inanimates, "that's gay!", is simply of an extention of this understanding that "to be gay" is something unfavourable.

Using the term in this way necessarily makes the connection that gay people are undesirable.

It's important that we're aware of the connotations our words carry - A person saying "that's gay" may not personally have any problem with gay people at all - but the use of the word itself reinforces the connotation that to be gay, is somehow less good than not being gay.

-m

 

[Pyode]

especially when they don't know what the terms really mean.

Do you mean cigarette or bundle of sticks?

This is the OT's point. No word's definition is set in stone, and if it's ok to turn a happy word or a neutral word into a bad word then why is it not ok to turn a bad word into a neutral word or even just a different meaning bad word?

If we keep using these words in the context we use them in now, in 20 years, no one under the age of 15 will know that they had anything to do with homosexuality. I don't see why that would be a bad thing.

 

[SageRuffin]

especially when they don't know what the terms really mean.

Do you mean cigarette or bundle of sticks?

This is the OT's point. No word's definition is set in stone, and if it's ok to turn a happy word or a neutral word into a bad word then why is it not ok to turn a bad word into a neutral word or even just a different meaning bad word?

If we keep using these words in the context we use them in now, in 20 years, no one under the age of 15 will know that they had anything to do with homosexuality. I don't see why that would be a bad thing.

I'm not disagreeing - not completely - if that's what you're wondering. I'm just saying that I too hate how certain terms have been bastardized over the years for the sake of "being in the game".

 

[Matt_LRR]

If those words are used in different context to mean something different without anyone getting offended then I think it would show how tolerant that society has become not the other way around. If say for example we let people use the word "******" as a slang term for buddy then is stops being a hate word doesn't it? After all words are only hateful if you perceive them to be.

Hate words or offensive terms are only hateful or offensive if that is the meaning society gives them. Why don't we just let the past meanings of these words be forgotten so that these words can stop hurting peoples feelings?

Yes, and no. The use of gay to mean Rubbish is a hate word. In fact 'guy" in and of tiself isn't a hate word, it's the connotation added by equating it to "bad" that makes it one.

in the case of other such hate words, there is so much historical precidence and connotation associated, that we are better off just leaving them in the past. while it is perhaps not inappropriate for the victimized group to adopt such a word to attept to render it powerless, the word is still poarizing - the meaning behind it is still there - and in the wrong context, or used by the wrong people it is still a hateful word.

Additionally, even when used by the group at which it was originally directed, the N word, for instance, still reinforces a split between racial groups.

-m

 

[Jonluw]

If, tomorrow, a linguistic trend took root in which people used the word "n*****" to mean "of poor quality" would that be ok?

"don't buy a ford, they're totally n*****s"

"The xbox 360 is n*****ed. I've replaced it 4 times, but it keeps breaking."

Is that a reasonable and inoffensive evolution of language?

-m

If it happened over night, no. Otherwise. I guess it would be. From a completely neutral point of view.

Edit: Great, ninja'd. I should refresh pages before replying...

 

[Eldarion]

If those words are used in different context to mean something different without anyone getting offended then I think it would show how tolerant that society has become not the other way around. If say for example we let people use the word "******" as a slang term for buddy then is stops being a hate word doesn't it? After all words are only hateful if you perceive them to be.

Hate words or offensive terms are only hateful or offensive if that is the meaning society gives them. Why don't we just let the past meanings of these words be forgotten so that these words can stop hurting peoples feelings?

Yes, and no. The use of gay to mean Rubbish is a hate word. In fact 'guy" in and of tiself isn't a hate word, it's the connotation added by equating it to "bad" that makes it one.

in the case of other such hate words, there is so much historical precidence and connotation associated, that we are better off just leaving them in the past. while it is perhaps not inappropriate for the victimized group to adopt such a word to attept to render it powerless, the word is still poarizing - the meaning behind it is still there - and in the wrong context, or used by the wrong people it is still a hateful word.

Additionally, even when used by the group at which it was originally directed, the N word, for instance, still reinforces a split between racial groups.

-m

You have a point, but I still think it all boils down to peoples perception of words being the only thing that gives these words any power. In a perfect world there would be no hate words, but here in the real world its hard to wash away that much history and bad blood.

 

[Jonluw]

Ahhh well, such is life. People are stupid, obnoxious or daft. And you feel like you've had, quite enoughhhhhh....

Juuust reeemember that you're speaking, in a language that's evolving...

 

[Pyode]

Ahhh well, such is life. People are stupid, obnoxious or daft. And you feel like you've had, quite enoughhhhhh....

Juuust reeemember that you're speaking, in a language that's evolving...

Revolving at 900 words an hour...

 

[commasplice]

You have a point, but I still think it all boils down to peoples perception of words being the only thing that gives these words any power.

That's the only thing that gives any words any power. If certain words didn't have certain connotations, language would break down. By virtue of that fact alone, we should strive to understand what the words we use really mean in the ears of other human beings.

Case in point: I'm really not cool with people using the "n" word. Yeah, sure, Dave Chappelle is hilarious. Being darker than I am, and having lived a drastically different life than I have, I'm sure he understands how the word affects people better than I could. But irrespective of how he sees it, when he uses the word, other people start quoting him and using it, too. Being one out of, maybe, 12 black kids at my high school, it was just strange for me to see half the students running around, screaming, "Fuck yo' couch, nigga!" Even if they didn't mean it in a strictly negative sense, it still made me uncomfortable.

None of my friends are aware of this. As long as they're just quoting a show or something, I let them go on thinking it's okay, because I feel it would be hypocritical of me to laugh at Paul Mooney and not let anyone else do the same.

I guess my point is more or less the same as Matt_LRR's, just from a first-person perspective.

Edit: Oh and on the note of "Phat" (not "Fat") and "Sick" meaning "Good," well...What about "Cool"? What about "Hot"? "Slick"? "Peachy keen"? Slang has never made sense and never will.

Spoiler: Also, this

You don't need to know German to understand how terrible this game is.