Creating a fantasy world...what to do about "Race"

[Vault101]

Hey there, not too long ago I created a thread asking for adivce about certain things when creating a "fantasy" world

now I have a new topic which I'm not sure how to handle

Race

first off this "world" that I'm creating now has no fictional races, its all human. I still havn't quite fleshed out the different factions/cultures, but lets say I had a group that were of a more.."tribal/voodoo" influence, would it be in poor taste to have them as "non whites" like black people or native americans or asian ect....

also there is no reason why they can;t be white..but would making them white look like I'm trying too hard to avoid this kind if "thing"?

what do you think?

 

[x EvilErmine x]

Not really, but then you would have to be very careful on the way you go about it. Try to avoid stereotypes as much as possible. Also it might be more interesting if they were white. It's a bit of a trope that the 'tribal' peoples are like 99% of the time always 'non white' and bucking this trend might be an interesting way to go.

But then again it's your work of fiction so as long as your not blatantly racist about it then you will be OK.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

You have a point. No matter which option you choose, somebody is going to be disapproving of it. So... fuck 'em! Do what you think best serves your vision.

There is such a thing as over-thinking things, especially if you're paralyzing yourself with worry and letting that lead to inaction.

 

[JoJo]

I wouldn't bat an eyelid whatever race a tribal culture appeared to be, there's tribal cultures across most of the world, it's can hardly be seen as racist when there are real world equivalents of these cultures. I disagree with EvilErmine though, I don't think it'd make it that much more interesting if they were European in appearance. I do agree though that certain stereotypes are best avoided, e.g. cannibals, which even though they do actually exist in some tribal cultures have been stereotyped and used cheaply so many times it's difficult to use them seriously.

 

[DoPo]

what do you think?

Easy - voodoo is for everyone. They could live in a region that has a mixed population of whites and whatver you choose for non-whites (or any combination, really) and have the two races/tribes/nations/whatever having joined their religion which were similar to begin with. Alternatively, it's just a new religion and anybody can pick it up - perhaps it started on an island with mixed population. Or it could be the state religion of an empire, who enforced it everywhere. And consider the Romans - they had their gods (ripoffs of the Greek ones, but still) who later took up Christianity from, essentially, just a sect within their empire and forced it everywhere.

And so on and so forth. Seems like a more creative solution than "Should I have them as non-white with at the risk of somebody getting offended by the implication, or should I have them white at the risk of being called out on it". Well, also, you could make a new skin colour, I suppose - a race of ashy-grey skinned people, or maybe ones with a green-ish tint. Or, I dinno, just had another idea - combine these two - the people are of different races but share skin colour. For example, if excessive use of a given plant/rock/animal/weather affects the skin colour (think carrots - you could turn orange if you consume too many. And pink flamingoes are that colour because of...something they eat, can't remember what, exactly)- perhaps an island has the thingie in excess, people of different races moved there and slowly changed their colour over several generations. The voodoo religion could have started there at any point, really.

I hope that helps and gives you an idea what to do, even if it's not any of what I listed.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Think about the location. A lot of "races" are influenced by their surroundings. There's a reason for skin with higher melanin concentrations, harsher temperatures and sunlight.

 

[Vault101]

You have a point. No matter which option you choose, somebody is going to be disapproving of it. So... fuck 'em! Do what you think best serves your vision.

There is such a thing as over-thinking things, especially if you're paralyzing yourself with worry and letting that lead to inaction.

that is true, however racial sterotypes and stuff always does bother me in fiction, so I want to avoid that

but your right, theres cause for offence eather angle

 

[mechashiva77]

I honestly don't see it as a big deal as long as you don't go into the stereotypes or make them seem ass-backwards.

EDIT: Though I am curious, what made you decide to go about making them all human?

 

[darlarosa]

...whenever I see things like this the question is how much is this based on "real things". Since you say you are basing this culture on a "tribal/voodoo" culture...do you actually know what that means and what the real world counterpart is?Also keep in mind the layout of your world. If this group of people lives close to another group of people then they will be somewhat used to each other and even pick up traditions. (Eastern Africans traded with Europeans)

Personally this is my take as a person of color, people tend to assume they know how African, Afro-Carribian, afro-latin cultures worked in the past and they really don't. If you are making it where this is a monolithic culture that's the worst you could do depending on the size of the group. There are literally hundreds of ethnic groups in Africa alone, and the "voodoo" culture is more than shamanism and sacrifice.(keep in mind it actually is kind of a practiced religion still). This is horrible but I'm always suspect of people when they depict cultures that tend to be based in one of the African derived culture.

Basically do actual research on the real world analog.

 

[twistedmic]

first off this "world" that I'm creating now has no fictional races, its all human. I still havn't quite fleshed out the different factions/cultures, but lets say I had a group that were of a more.."tribal/voodoo" influence, would it be in poor taste to have them as "non whites" like black people or native americans or asian ect....



what do you think?

To me, it'll depend on where the 'tribal' people live in your world. If they live in a climate with a lot of heat and sun (desert, tropical or equatorial) then having them as non-whites would make sense. And if they live in a cooler climate with less sun then having them as whites would make sense.

 

[Vault101]

EDIT: Though I am curious, what made you decide to go about making them all human?

fictional races don't really fit the kind of world I had in mind (that is unless I came up with some humanoid that evolved from pre dinosaurs...hmmmm well theres an Idea), and as much as I like fictional races they feel like an excuse to be lazy...."culture of hats" type thing you know?

Think about the location. A lot of "races" are influenced by their surroundings. There's a reason for skin with higher melanin concentrations, harsher temperatures and sunlight.

ah crap....that's somthing I'll have to keep in mind

snip.

but I have ot keep in mind what kind of culture it originated from...its a secondary religion, the kind missionaries try to stamp out

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

You have a point. No matter which option you choose, somebody is going to be disapproving of it. So... fuck 'em! Do what you think best serves your vision.

There is such a thing as over-thinking things, especially if you're paralyzing yourself with worry and letting that lead to inaction.

that is true, however racial sterotypes and stuff always does bother me in fiction, so I want to avoid that

but your right, theres cause for offence eather angle

I don't know about "cause", because that sounds a little like you're validating whiney people being whiney.

Do what you gotta do, and if anyone accuses you of being racist, say "No, I'm not". Problem solved. You know what your intentions are better than other people do.

 

[DoPo]

snip.

but I have ot keep in mind what kind of culture it originated from...its a secondary religion, the kind missionaries try to stamp out

Not an issue, actually. Christians have tried to stamp out lots of other newer religions. Or Christian sects who deviate from the main body of the religion. Now, I'm not so sure about other of the big religions, but I think there would be a similar thing with them. Whatever the main religion in the world/empire/whatever is, it'll likely look down upon any new found one. And for fun, you can have the main religion a different style of voodoo, too. So you can have the Roman empire who embraces voodoo and this one sect of people who have their own interpretation of it. The Bogomils are an example of a Christian sect I can think of, though that was later than the Roman empire, if memory serves correctly, but during the Byzantine one. And they had a...different interpretation of the religion. It would be somewhat of a reboot of the bible - pretty much the same set pieces but arranged differently. But also consider Judaism and Christianity themselves. They start from common roots but the Christians have the expansion pack, while the Jews still use the base religion[footnote]since I started with the metaphors...[/footnote]. just imagine the reverse situation - the Judaism (or whatever counts for one. And presumably would be voodoo themed) is there, while the addon is closer to the normal interpretation of voodoo but doesn't get as much recognition.

 

[Waffle_Man]

Not really. Folk religion is ubiquitous. If you want to be safe and not just throw shit in for the hell of it though, you might think of asking why the traditions developed, what purpose they originally (or still) serve, how the necessary components for any ritual are obtained, how it fits into the everyday life of the people in question. The only definite no-no I'd avoid with regards to race is to make them amount to more or less stereo types, even you try to make them generally positive ones. People might get a bit concerned if all of your vaguely Asian people know martial arts or if all of the vaguely Native American people smoke'em peace pipe and do a spirit walk.

 

[Vault101]

...snip.

its mainly thematic/asthetic..or hell even purley ashthetic really

I'm not well versed in the actual voodoo religion or the many tribal cultures/customs but I am pretty sure theres more to it than cutting heads off chickens and dancing around in tribal gear

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

Hey there, not too long ago I created a thread asking for adivce about certain things when creating a "fantasy" world

now I have a new topic which I'm not sure how to handle

Race

first off this "world" that I'm creating now has no fictional races, its all human. I still havn't quite fleshed out the different factions/cultures, but lets say I had a group that were of a more.."tribal/voodoo" influence, would it be in poor taste to have them as "non whites" like black people or native americans or asian ect....

also there is no reason why they can;t be white..but would making them white look like I'm trying too hard to avoid this kind if "thing"?

what do you think?

Hmmmm...

Trcky... tricky...

One solution is to do a lot of research and make is as authentic as possible. No "cover everything with skulls just because that is what voodoo does in real life" and "jamacan man accents." Another thing you can do is not shun away from issues of race, but make it a plot point. The Voodoo people might be facing oppression from classical "European fantasy" people, for their skin color and "heretical" magic. Make it a point that many of the voodoo practitioners are GOOD people, while making the white magic users kind of @$$holes. You may also want to expand it to having more factions representing various religious beliefs, having people representing Shinto-Buhdists using Chi magic who are obviously Japanese, factions based on Hindoism who are obviously Indian, etc.

The more equal, the more it's based on real life, the less likely it will be listed on TVTropes under "Unfortunate Implications."

 

[darlarosa]

...snip.

its mainly thematic/asthetic..or hell even purley ashthetic really

I'm not well versed in the actual voodoo religion or the many tribal cultures/customs but I am pretty sure theres more to it than cutting heads off chickens and dancing around in tribal gear

Yeah I'm not saying taking an aesthetic is a terrible thing but what becomes offensive is what isn't detailed. It all depends on how close you are getting to these people and from whose eyes we are seeing them.

I would just say make these people real and not a caricature. I'm not saying that you were planning to or would, but we often write and fall back on basic descriptions of stuff without realizing that what we have written is percieved as ac caricature...Just make sure you are making these people unique. Just as a way of putting it...never just call a group "elves" give them magic, make them immortal, and give them a connection to nature because no one cares. Regardless of race make them unique

 

[DoPo]

I personally think it would perhaps be a better plan, rather than simply taking elements of Voodoo, to take elements of African religion and combine them with elements of Catholic iconography and ritual. That way, you create the same Voodoo vibe while at the same time hopefully coming up with something unique

Hmm, that's giving me ideas. You could take African spirituality and another religion, too. Heck, I read some African folk tales when I was little and from what I remember, they weren't too far off from native American ones (read some of them, as well) - there were similar elements to both. So you could mesh them together to get something similar, yet distinct, too. That would be fun. Or combine them with, say Greek - you could have the gods be actual ancestors who managed to ascended to <insert Olympus/heaven analogy>. And it could be quite a dynamic religion, since new people die, and the greatest of heroes could reach that place as well - join the gods or maybe even replace some of them. Whether that's what happens or just what the religious figures says is up for implementation, but it's an interesting seed.