D&D 5E Valor Bard tips?

[DarklordKyo]

One of my D&D characters is a Valor Bard that specializes in hand crossbows (to the point where I went human variant, and got him Crossbow Expert), and I have a few questions.

1. Should I get the War Caster feat next ASI?, or just take stat ups? (considering it because I can keep a shield on my offhand for added survivability)

2.Should I focus on Charisma or Dexterity? On one hand, Dex increases weapon damage & survivability. On the other, Cha makes my spells more effective, and harder for enemies to resist, and the Battle Magic feature suggests Valor Bards are meant to be battle mages.

What do you doods think?

 

[Kae]

To be honest I've never played a Valor Bard but if I had to guess, perhaps focusing on Buff magic like Magic Weapon or Haste aided with Illusion magic like Mirror Image might be the way to go, I mean to take advantage of the class flavor, not for an optimum build.

I mean you'd probably be more useful if you focused on Magic but otherwise, you won't be able to take advantage of that Second Attack you get at 6th LVL which is possible to get up to 4 attacks per turn using Haste and still be able to cast Bonus Action spells., right now I don't feel like putting a lot of research into it but look up buff spells and the like while looking out for ones that require Concentration as you will only be able to maintain one of them, if you can find spells, also if you are going to be in the thick of it things such as Vampiric Touch might be a good way to compensate for a D8 Hid Dice, though this might not be necessary if you plan to stay at range, in that case grabbing Hunter's Mark with your Magical Secrets might be worth the trouble but that's until level 10 and by then it might not be as good.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Charisma, without a doubt. You're a caster first and foremost, and a damn powerful one at that. Bards can absolutely wreck an encounter through their crowd control spells and have sweet as fuck buffs. And yes Warcaster is a really good talent, but if your Charisma is only mediocre it's not bad to up that either.

More importantly though, as a Valor Bard, a skald of yore; be a motherfuckin' hype master. [https://youtu.be/jdWO9ozir1Y?t=30] If you ain't spreading tales and songs of your party's greatness you're doin' it wrong.

 

[Battenberg]

Hard to say without seeing your character sheet or knowing how you prefer to play (e.g. are you into min-maxxing or do you prefer to focus on role playing a personality). That said bards tend to work best focusing on their caster abilities over physical combat so focusing on charisma is generally more important than dex. War caster is a pretty great feat and probably the best pick but if you aren't using many concentration spells and/ or your charisma is particularly low you may get more benefit out of a stat boost.

 

[DarklordKyo]

Hard to say without seeing your character sheet or knowing how you prefer to play (e.g. are you into min-maxxing or do you prefer to focus on role playing a personality). That said bards tend to work best focusing on their caster abilities over physical combat so focusing on charisma is generally more important than dex. War caster is a pretty great feat and probably the best pick but if you aren't using many concentration spells and/ or your charisma is particularly low you may get more benefit out of a stat boost.

Here's what I have at this point: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByAW86pWuT_Zc0dPeE9yRUxacW8

 

[DarklordKyo]

More importantly though, as a Valor Bard, a skald of yore; be a motherfuckin' hype master. [https://youtu.be/jdWO9ozir1Y?t=30] If you ain't spreading tales and songs of your party's greatness you're doin' it wrong.

So...I'm medieval Hercule (except I hype up other people, as well as me).

 

[Cowabungaa]

More importantly though, as a Valor Bard, a skald of yore; be a motherfuckin' hype master. [https://youtu.be/jdWO9ozir1Y?t=30] If you ain't spreading tales and songs of your party's greatness you're doin' it wrong.

So...I'm medieval Hercule (except I hype up other people, as well as me).

Hercules would be the party Barbarian if you have one, with all the superhuman resistances and strength and shit. You just focus on looking and sounding cool as shit.

That character sheet looks fine by the way. I reckon though you'd do better if you gave up Crossbow Expert for Warcaster and spend your level 4 upgrade on 2 Charisma points giving you a spell save DC of 15 and +7 on your casting, which is awesome. You're not going to do shoot that often anyway as even Vicious Mockery is really good. And roleplay-wise you can still act like you're good with a hand crossbow, considering your Dexterity is pretty high and you're proficient. Oh and it doesn't hurt to shell out for Studded Leather armour as I see you have 80GP left. 15 AC doesn't sound like that much higher, but it matters more than you think.

And as a GM I have to ask, but how are you going to roleplay Chaotic Neutral?

 

[DarklordKyo]

More importantly though, as a Valor Bard, a skald of yore; be a motherfuckin' hype master. [https://youtu.be/jdWO9ozir1Y?t=30] If you ain't spreading tales and songs of your party's greatness you're doin' it wrong.

So...I'm medieval Hercule (except I hype up other people, as well as me).

Hercules would be the party Barbarian if you have one, with all the superhuman resistances and strength and shit. You just focus on looking and sounding cool as shit.

And as a GM I have to ask, but how are you going to roleplay Chaotic Neutral?

I didn't say Hercules, I said Hercule:


As for how I'm playing Chaotic Neutral, he seeks wealth for the sake of boobs and beer, he fights for number one, and keeps his allies around so they can benefit him. That said, he knows the difference between chaotic and stupid, he's not the type to do stuff as stupid as thunder wave party members. Does that sound okay?, or does that sound True Neutral?

 

[Cowabungaa]

snip

Ohhhh, that guy. I forgot all about him and thought you just missed a letter. In that case yes, yes that makes for a dope as shit Valor Bard.

But that kind of Chaotic Neutral sounds fine. Sounds like Jack Sparrow, aka CN's patron saint. True Neutral usually goes either two ways; peasants who just keep their head down and look out for themselves and don't bother anyone with anything else, or mystics who try to keep good and evil in balance.

 

[DarklordKyo]

That character sheet looks fine by the way. I reckon though you'd do better if you gave up Crossbow Expert for Warcaster and spend your level 4 upgrade on 2 Charisma points giving you a spell save DC of 15 and +7 on your casting, which is awesome. You're not going to do shoot that often anyway as even Vicious Mockery is really good. And roleplay-wise you can still act like you're good with a hand crossbow, considering your Dexterity is pretty high and you're proficient. Oh and it doesn't hurt to shell out for Studded Leather armour as I see you have 80GP left. 15 AC doesn't sound like that much higher, but it matters more than you think.

Well, I already played this character enough so that Crossbow Expert is pretty ingrained (not to mention my stats are somewhat balanced around the stat boost it gives, not to mention point blank archery can be handy). Also, one of my gaming friends kinda turned me off Vicious Mockery as a main source of damage (he used it many times one game, and the enemies always succeeded the throw), unless paired with bow shots with Battle Magic to compensate worst comes to worst.

Either way, what would you recommend for lvl 4?, ASI or Warcaster? (in my case, +2 to a stat, or +2 AC because shield).

 

[Cowabungaa]

Well, I already played this character enough so that Crossbow Expert is pretty ingrained (not to mention my stats are somewhat balanced around the stat boost it gives, not to mention point blank archery can be handy). Also, one of my gaming friends kinda turned me off Vicious Mockery as a main source of damage (he used it many times one game, and the enemies always succeeded the throw), unless paired with bow shots with Battle Magic to compensate worst comes to worst.

Either way, what would you recommend for lvl 4?, ASI or Warcaster? (in my case, +2 to a stat, or +2 AC because shield).

For some reason I assumed you were creating a character. Carry on then. In that case I'd just go for +2 on Charisma. Just make sure you keep the tanky party members between you and the baddies and you'll be fine. Warcaster is really good, but kind of situational if you're more of a ranged guy anyway. And don't forget; if your DC goes up Vicious Mockery becomes harder to resist. Don't see it as a main source of damage, remember that you're a crowd controller and buffer first and foremost. Sadly, GMs rolling well with their saving throws does come with the territory, but that's Bards for ya. Just up your spell save DC as much as possible to make that less likely.

 

[Battenberg]

Hard to say without seeing your character sheet or knowing how you prefer to play (e.g. are you into min-maxxing or do you prefer to focus on role playing a personality). That said bards tend to work best focusing on their caster abilities over physical combat so focusing on charisma is generally more important than dex. War caster is a pretty great feat and probably the best pick but if you aren't using many concentration spells and/ or your charisma is particularly low you may get more benefit out of a stat boost.

Here's what I have at this point: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByAW86pWuT_Zc0dPeE9yRUxacW8

So between the sheet and your other comments here it seems like the crossbow is at least as important to how you want to play as the actual bard class, possibly even more so. With that in mind I would like to suggest a second use for the war caster feat - combined with crossbow expert it would let you dual wield hand crossbows rather than holding a shield, potentially allowing 3 arrows per round, more with Haste.

Unless your party is severely lacking a front line of some kind and you anticipate having to soak a lot of hits that 2 AC is not likely to come into play all that often but war caster and a second hand crossbow means you will always have something to do with your bonus action. The advantage on conc. saving throws and being able to make spell attacks as reactions are both very useful imo and go some way to making up for the lost AC when you do find yourself under attack; reaction spells in particular can be very fun to play around with. I couldn't say whether or not it would be more powerful but I feel pretty confident it would be more engaging for you in combat than adding 1 to certain dice rolls.

Fair warning though - while your damage output will be fine at lower levels bards aren't really built in a way that accommodates focusing on physical attacks further down the line and you may find your character isn't dishing out much damage at later levels. If you're not worried about that that's fine otherwise you may need to plan ahead to rely more on spells at later levels (which will makes getting Cha to 20 a priority) or possibly consider multi-classing (I could see rogue and revised ranger both having potential here).

 

[DarklordKyo]

snip

Well, I figured adding the shield couldn't hurt (since learning the game with my main, my monk, involved lots of getting smashed into the dirt by giant monsters), since it would increase survivability in a pinch. Not to mention I have thought of that, and I figured I could act as a bow-wielding battlemage later on. Haste to increase my movement and attacks, Dissonant Whispers for initial burst (or a different spell, depending on the situation), with the Haste and Extra Attack combining for four attacks in one turn on top of that.

Yeah, I wouldn't exactly be an Avenger Paladin stacking Hunter's Mark and smite on a zombie using a greatsword, but, as I learned from using my monk, more than two attacks in a turn is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[Souplex]

One of my D&D characters is a Valor Bard that specializes in hand crossbows (to the point where I went human variant, and got him Crossbow Expert), and I have a few questions.

I can keep a shield on my offhand for added survivability

You can't use a shield with a hand crossbow, as weapons that use ammo require your other hand to draw ammo, even if they're one handed and you ignore the loading property through a feat. A heavy crossbow will serve you better.
Also, I prefer resilient: Constitution to warcaster. The numbers work out better at higher proficiencies.

 

[DarklordKyo]

You can't use a shield with a hand crossbow, as weapons that use ammo require your other hand to draw ammo, even if they're one handed and you ignore the loading property through a feat.

Really?, huh, you'd think an expert would be able to easily do so through the straps.

 

[Souplex]

But that kind of Chaotic Neutral sounds fine. Sounds like Jack Sparrow, aka CN's patron saint.

The patron saint of Chaotic Neutral is rick Sanchez.

 

[Souplex]

You can't use a shield with a hand crossbow, as weapons that use ammo require your other hand to draw ammo, even if they're one handed and you ignore the loading property through a feat.

Really?, huh, you'd think an expert would be able to easily do so through the straps.

It was in the first batch of errata on the "Ammunition" property of weapons.
By that logic you could use a shield with a longbow due to straps, or you could use a shield hand to do somatic components because "Straps". It's also something of a game balance thing. As always when the rules seem a little stupid to you, consult your GM about ignoring them.
So yeah, get yourself a heavy crossbow and drop the shield, or if you want to be ranged and keep the shield get into throwing weaponry.
Also, this is a bit long-term, but when magical secrets come up; look at the ranger-exclusive high-end.
Swift-quiver will turn your crossbow into a machine gun.
https://www.dnd-spells.com/class/ranger/
Just know that if you have a ranger in your party, they will hate you as a person for getting their exclusive spells at level 10 while they have to work up to 17. Like never share their snacks with you again hate you.
Same applies for Paladin smite spells.

 

[DarklordKyo]

It was in the first batch of errata on the "Ammunition" property of weapons.
By that logic you could use a shield with a longbow due to straps, or you could use a shield hand to do somatic components because "Straps". It's also something of a game balance thing. As always when the rules seem a little stupid to you, consult your GM about ignoring them.
So yeah, get yourself a heavy crossbow and drop the shield, or if you want to be ranged and keep the shield get into throwing weaponry.
Also, this is a bit long-term, but when magical secrets come up; look at the ranger-exclusive high-end.
Swift-quiver will turn your crossbow into a machine gun.
https://www.dnd-spells.com/class/ranger/
Just know that if you have a ranger in your party, they will hate you as a person for getting their exclusive spells at level 10 while they have to work up to 17. Like never share their snacks with you again hate you.
Same applies for Paladin smite spells.

Huh, well, I guess I'd rather get the big crossbow. Do I even have proficiency?, or is it just hand crossbows?

 

[Cowabungaa]

But that kind of Chaotic Neutral sounds fine. Sounds like Jack Sparrow, aka CN's patron saint.

The patron saint of Chaotic Neutral is rick Sanchez.

Y'know, ever since the last episode I've been leaning way more towards Chaotic Evil. CN doesn't really step over the amount of bodies CE gladly does. Like he destroyed an intergalactic federation pretty much for shits and giggles. That shit ain't CN bro, that's pure CE.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Huh, well, I guess I'd rather get the big crossbow. Do I even have proficiency?, or is it just hand crossbows?

You have proficiency with light crossbows, not heavy crossbows. Still, even a light one does more damage, a d8, than a hand crossbow, a d6. Still, keep that hand crossbow somewhere tucked away. I mean it's basically a pistol you can slip in a coat and pull out under a table or something. Makes for a neat little surprise weapon, some swell intimidation roleplay, that kind of thing.

Edit: Nevermind about the light crossbow, I forgot you got martial weapons as a Valor Bard. Yeah go for a heavy crossbow if you want.