Dark Souls PvP - The original vs the sequel and why I'm pretty disappointed

[default]

Hey there guys. This is something I've kind of been wanting to discuss for a while now. I'm a huge Dark Souls fan. I have at least 500 hours in the first game. The majority of the time I have spent in Dark Souls (both 1 and 2) has been spent on PvP. I REALLY love Souls PvP. Dark Souls had some of the most interesting, engaging and nuanced multiplayer aspects I've ever seen. But Dark Souls 2 has really disappointed me with its PvP so far. I just can't enjoy it no matter how hard I try. I can sit for hours summoning and invading the Township in Dark Souls, but can hardly stomach 30 minutes of DS2 PvP at a time.

Let me first say that I think Dark Souls 2 is a fantastic game. Not as good as the first one, but the PvE was still very engaging and enjoyable and I was hooked the whole way through. Let me also say that I'm not going to talk about balance here. I think we all remember what a state DS1 was in when it came out, and those things are fixed over time. Here I'm going to talk about core aspects of the game's engine and mechanics, stuff that can't be changed unless the developers undertook a massive rewrite. I'd also like to say that I would be very happy if any of you could change my mind on these issues. I really want to enjoy playing this game. I also want to say that Dark Souls 1 has issues. TONS of massive issues, but a lot of these issues made the game into what it is.



I could talk about these games for literally hours, but today I'm going to be focusing on just a few things.


Dark Souls 1 PvP is extremely fast-paced, fluid and technical. Fights are fast and furious and have a real sense of flow and elegance. Playing the game, dancing with another player in a split-second battle of wits and reflex and knowledge is an utter joy. Watching two good players go at each other is fantastic to watch, and it's always down to the wire. There is always a way a good player can come back from any situation and take the win with fast reflexes, good distancing and master over the controls. This stems from how the movement and attacks work. In Dark Souls 1 every movement is fast and super precise. You can cancel a lot of animations prematurely, the fastroll speed (which is the meta) is very quick and has a lot of distance to it, you can turn on a dime and change directions very quickly and attacks are snappy, concise and precise.

Dark Souls 2, on the other hand, feels extremely sluggish and chunky. Animations and movement, especially the rolling, are slow and clumsy feeling. Your character takes a while to react to input and there is a lot of starting and ending frames to actions. There is none of the dynamic and energy that a good duel in Dark Souls 1 had. It's very slow and methodical, no matter how you build or what weapons you use. Dark Souls 2 in comparison is two people walking around each other taking turns to swing, block and dodge, and even duels between the best players look boring, sluggish and slow.



Here's a bit of a comparison:

Dark Souls 1



Dark Souls 2



So that's my main point I want to talk about today. Like I said, I could go on about both of these games for hours, but this is my main issue at the moment. After playing and loving Dark Souls 1 it's really hard to stomach. I switch directly between the two games and marvel at how different they feel to play, and it's not in a good way in my opinion. It's a lot like the difference between the Smash Brother games, Melee and Brawl. Melee was extremely fast, technical and fluid. Brawl became a lot floatier, more sluggish and slower. To me, the pace, flow and feeling of playing a game is very important, and it just really disappointed me to see Dark Souls 2 take itself in this direction. I still thoroughly enjoy it as a PvE experience, but for PvP I'll stick to the first for now.

So what do you think? Do you like this slower and more methodical style of PvP? Why?

 

[Riotguards]

well i've played all three games quite extensively (well maybe not demon souls in pvp but i played the hell out of that game, it was so freaking sweat) and i can safely say that dark souls 2 is a game which is pretty much average


now if we were talking about a new IP like demon souls was i'd give it a 9 / 10 without a doubt, despite its flaws it has some amazing combat and bosses, etc, etc

except the game is not a new IP, far from it the game is in its third expansion and for every positive i can easily get two negatives which were huge positives in the previous game


for instance DK2 boss fights are fairly cut and paste with quite a lot of bosses

Spoiler: bosses you meet in the game (somewhat)

Some bosses for instance Smelter Demon, The Pursuer, Looking Glass Knight, Lost Sinner, Belfry Gargoyles (dark souls 1 copy paste increase difficulty...), Ruin Sentinels (they're 3 copies of the same npc, only you fight 3, woo?), Velstadt, The Royal Aegis, Dragonrider(s), Throne Watcher and Throne Defender and Giant Lord

all share a similar attack pastern between each other, sure they have one or two variations in how they attack but the cor concept between these guys are the same, they have a close attack, gap closer and some some "unique" aspect to the fight

in that entire list the only boss that i could say was slightly original in attack patterns is the ruin sentinels, a fight in which you fight 3 of them at the same time and they have a twirly helicopter attack if you get too far, overhead, cone swing and a slam dunk (i've seen them throw and kill me with their shield as well)

meanwhile smelter demon and lost sinner are somehow related in that they share the same attack animations, the only difference being smelter will throw out a BS AoE which he seems to have for no reason and a slam dunk flame thrower when he slams his sword down (no indications of this at all)

the lost sinner however has neither AoE and flame jet only a really gimped fight in which you fight them without lock on, thanks to the lighting upgrade the fight is made a 100 times easier than what it would original be



now after fighting all these bosses you'll probably ask, what about the not so armoured bosses who do the same attack animation?

i could point you towards royal rat Sif, the one you meet in the doors of pharros whom is artificially harder with the two hit kill plague rats but that fight is more frustrating than skill based

or how about the most infamous boss in the entire series, you though smough and ornstien were bad? how about Ancient dragon, this boss can literally one hit kill you, yes that even means people who haven't reached NG+, his flying flame breath has a HUGE AoE range, enough range to literally kill you unless you read the signs and prepared to run

many times have i tried melee and got caught by his 180 pivot flying skills, the only way you can win this fight is to cheese him and that cheese is a very stinky cheese that takes ages to finish

this alone ruined the souls game for me, the bosses whom are horrible copy and paste version of each other or the previous game, the biggest sin bringing three bosses from the previous game and plastering them here

i could go on and on but there's reviews that highlight these problems far better than i ever could


oh btw i really hate this game now because of a game breaking bug with the blood arena, apparently if you log out or rage quit the arena while your still in it, you have a chance of corrupting your save

i lost 90 hours of character development because FROM couldn't test their game properly

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I like the combat in Dark Souls 2, except for 2 things.

1. You can't combo from heavy attacks into light attacks anymore.

2. You can't dead angle.

I feel like these two things in dark souls 1 separated the more hardcore players from the more casual players. The hardcore PvPers knew how to take advantage of the full capabilities of their weapons, whereas people who were just playing PvE mostly didn't know to properly use many of these techniques since they aren't super useful against AI.

 

[sanquin]

I played only about 30 min at a friend's place. And I can't say I like it much compared to 1. Animations look more stiff, sounds sound uninspired, difficulty comes far less from actual difficulty and more from giving the enemy an unfair advantage (like no flinching on mobs that should definitely flinch, or you getting flinch-locked to death by a single combo attack from a 'normal' enemy), etc. So I doubt I'll enjoy PvP at all. It's a real shame though, as I loved and still love DS1 to death. One of my favourite rpg's from the past...5 years or so? I had really hoped DS2 would be just as good if not better. But this game... It just feels like that inspiration and motivation the devs had for DS1 has dissipated.

 

[Willy Hernandez]

So, here are my personal thoughts about PVP:

Good:

Armor variety: decent, but not quite good, A ton of armor and equip make the game really cool to explore, but most of the armor sets are useless, giving no defense at all or being totally overwhelmed against... well, Havel, On DS1 I never let go my wanderer set as it was light and had good resistances, however, I put my personal touch on it using Shiva legs and Logan gloves (check it out, looks cool as hell). On DS2 I have more variety, and that is awesome... Until you enter into PVP and meet the havel community. However it is still good to see people making cool shits like the Rock Lobster and the Saint Samurai.

Weapons: Holly hell I´m in heaven, curved swords combos, rapiers stunlocks, greatswords fancy moveset, ultragreatswords golf swings, greathammers smash, whips and their improved tracking, katanas quickdraws, shield bashes, and add to all that the power stance combos... soooooooooo gooooooooooood. The only weapons I dislike are straight swords, halberds and lances, they are cheap and boring, and the most used shit on PVP. The spin to win move looks so stupid, and do so much damage, and it is so easy to lag...

Bad:

Character Stats: A total mess: I think FromSoft overthink the stats this time, changing the old Endurance into two stats is dumb, before one point of endurance improved your stamina bar and your equip load, Why divide them instead of just putting a cap on them?. Adaptability, pointless, You need at least 60 to reach the darkwood grain ring i-frames, and even then the roll distance is the same and the healing time is just a bit improved.

Parry and Backstab: Kinda suck... the Backstab is a mixed bag, in one side the new backstab grab makes it easier to avoid, but at the same time, the new thing is the front backstab, because if the grab animation touches you even in front, you are fucked, and many players just walk around you over and over until the animation start,and then you are fucked.

The guardbreak is cool, because is fast paced and punishing, as the parry must be, but I really miss the kick as it was the most efficient way to kill hackers. But the parry, Oh God the parry, I hate it, hate it hate it hate it, totally kills the pace, even if you riposte the enemy it lies on the ground forever before standing up, and you are like HURRY UP!!!!, In dark souls one weapon swamp was a proof of skill, now it´s like, yeah, whatever, i got the time. They should invert the animations, the pushing move, as it easy to predict, throwing the opponent at floor to do an special riposte, and the parry, as it is past paced and based in timing, stunning them into the special stabbing, but even then, the recovery times are way too long and they let you open to AoE spells, totally sucks. There is a big gap between punishing unskilled players and let them take a fucking nap.

Cheap builds: Oh God, there are way too much shortcuts on this game, way too much. On DS1 seeing a Havelboy was annoying, but you always knew that the speed was at your favor, giantdads were always midrolling, and overpowered sorcerers had no hp, there were ways to outstand them. In DS2, 9 out of 10 battles will be against a havelboy with magic barrier with numbness with sunbuff with some dark gigantic weapon with some AOE spell to fuck you. Also, Three ways to avoid the Backstab? fuck you From, I´m sick of fucking Turtles, jesters or unlimited Glover´s users with helix halberd power stance and protection against anyfuckingthing IT IS DUMB. Again, in DS1 youa cn only apply one buff at time, magic barrier, or power within, so you must choose between good defense or good damage, here, fuck it, nothing will touch me, NOTHING.

And finally, and this something i´ve thinking for a while, the low cost of leveling up is actually bad, really bad, and the soul memory is worst. At first sight it looks good, as PVP is incredible more frecuent than DS1, but there is the thing, You knew in DS1 that leveling up too much will cut your PVP, so, you took your levels and think about them, you make yourself unique, sacrificing defense or damage according to your style, You use the armor that better suits that style, either something heavy and sturdy or something light to ninjarolling, here, again, fuck it, havel for everyone, havel for everything, fuck it.

My brother have a mundane build, and PVP for him is grinding, he enters, puts three buffs, use afinity, crystal soul spear, helix power stance, a mundane dagger for INSANE backstab damage, turtle armor, havel boots and gloves and that´s it, fuck skill, fuck knowing your weapon, fuck parrying, fuck making an original build. And you can say well, only scrub do that, but noup, EVERYONE does it, because the game allows it, and almost force you to do it, You will eventually hit the 15 millions mark of soul memory, you have no choice as PVP grants souls, and when you do it, a 200 lvl character will get fucked over and over again for 600 lvl´s havels, jesters and turtles who only need to spam r1 to win. Limitation is the source of creativity, give the chance to be an asshole to people and guess what, they will be assholes.

I enjoy the game at PVP, as for each 10 havelboys there is always a creative player who grants you an awesome duel, but in general i can´t spend the hours I spend in DS1 as is not as fun, not as entertaining and not as fluid as it used to be, unfortunatelly, at least for me, PVE is boring, the world is not as grand or deep as DS1 (Although I still preffer Boletaria over Lordran), and the bullshit drop rate is, well, bullshit.

 

[default]

I played only about 30 min at a friend's place. And I can't say I like it much compared to 1. Animations look more stiff, sounds sound uninspired, difficulty comes far less from actual difficulty and more from giving the enemy an unfair advantage (like no flinching on mobs that should definitely flinch, or you getting flinch-locked to death by a single combo attack from a 'normal' enemy), etc. So I doubt I'll enjoy PvP at all. It's a real shame though, as I loved and still love DS1 to death. One of my favourite rpg's from the past...5 years or so? I had really hoped DS2 would be just as good if not better. But this game... It just feels like that inspiration and motivation the devs had for DS1 has dissipated.

I'm fairly sure it was made by a 'B team' of sorts, without the director that oversaw the last two. It kind of fits, to be honest. A lot of Dark Souls 2 feels like it's a Souls game made by people who just didn't pick up the subtleties that make them the brilliant games they are. It's just so bloody standard and boring in the majority of its creative efforts. It lacks that Japanese/Lovecraftian style of dark aesthetic that made the world so haunting and powerful.

Cut for space

I know what you mean, those Eastern leggings are so tasty. I'm wearing them with the standard Knight set and black leather gloves, it looks pretty damn cool and it's the perfect weight as well.

I sort of disagree with you on the super fancy moves that are everywhere. In the first game every move had a very precise
purpose and didn't stick around, and it was super fucking cool when you found some unique weapon with an amazing two-handed heavy attack that sends enemies flying up into the air. Now that's on pretty much every weapon and it really cheapens it. The first thing that came to mind is what you said, the running helicopter move on every halberd. The hell is up with that shit? Don't get me wrong, I looooove all the variety that there is in the second game, with different ways of wielding different weapons and crazy combos, and the way bows work now feels really good, but they overdid it a little on the moves.


But yeah, a lot of what you said there comes down to balance. The insane power of buffs, the frequency of two-shotting someone, the overbearing power of Havels and the crazy damage on poison can all be changed, and I sure as hell hope they are. The game will be a lot more bearable once that stuff is ironed out, and it will also encourage people to actually be creative and try new things. Also, the hell is up with Soul Memory? That was a dumb design decision, fullstop.

 

[joest01]

Dark2 = best gameplay.
Demon's = best atmosphere and organized pvp.
Dark1= best forgotten.

How anybody can want to go back to directional rolling is beyond me.

 

[Willy Hernandez]

I know what you mean, those Eastern leggings are so tasty. I'm wearing them with the standard Knight set and black leather gloves, it looks pretty damn cool and it's the perfect weight as well.

Hahaha, Fashion souls, one of the most interesting sideeffects of the Soul series, What is a victory if you don´t look awesome at it?

I must say, out of joke, that the "realism" of the armor sets and weapons makes the DSouls series more open to creativity than most of the RPGs in the market, Which is a really cool fact. And validates your point about the special attacks in the weaponry of DS2.

Little details game developers, they are the key of the success

 

[Willy Hernandez]

Dark2 = best gameplay.
Demon's = best atmosphere and organized pvp.
Dark1= best forgotten.

How anybody can want to go back to directional rolling is beyond me.

Totally agree, That is why, even if I love Dark Souls for his deep lore and general mistyque, Demon´s souls is my favorite game of the series, yeah, it was clunky at times, but dear god the atmosphere, every level felt unique and threating in his own way, Playing on Latria and the Plague Valley was as intense as a Survival horror, Boletaria was so damn huge, and the Shrine of storms felt filled with wonders and treasures, The mines were ok.

And there is no moment, not in any Dark souls Game, that could outstand the epic Tower Knight intro.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V8Zi4lT_wQ (I don´t know how to put videos)

 

[MrRaggaedeman]

Low level PvP in DS2 is absolutely great. Somewhere in the area of 2-6 million SM. Fights are mostly balanced, no havel turltes, no helix stance, none of that high level stuff that sometimes makes PvP in DS2 a pain in the ass.

I have 3 characters. A dex/faith build with dual rapiers at sl220, a pure strength with the greatsword and the zweihander at sl160 and a strength/int caster at sl100.
All of them are far beyond the last sm tier and there lies the problem. I don't like the idea of raising all stats to have an overpowered jack of all traits with turtle armor doing the fastroll. So i'm kinda fucked when I get someone who raised his stats. At this point I can kill myself because I wont even stand a chance. One hit from him and I'm almost dead but he can take hits like crazy. And so on

I think the PvP is great and it could be the best in the series. It's fast paced, precise and you have a lot of choice when it comes to equipment and fighting style. But it has some major flaws with can completely ruin the experience. Most of my gripes would be solved if SM wouldn't matter.

 

[default]

Dark2 = best gameplay.
Demon's = best atmosphere and organized pvp.
Dark1= best forgotten.

How anybody can want to go back to directional rolling is beyond me.

Just curious, what do you mean by directional rolling? Surely you roll in a direction whatever the case?

 

[joest01]

Dark2 = best gameplay.
Demon's = best atmosphere and organized pvp.
Dark1= best forgotten.

How anybody can want to go back to directional rolling is beyond me.

Totally agree, That is why, even if I love Dark Souls for his deep lore and general mistyque, Demon´s souls is my favorite game of the series, yeah, it was clunky at times, but dear god the atmosphere, every level felt unique and threating in his own way, Playing on Latria and the Plague Valley was as intense as a Survival horror, Boletaria was so damn huge, and the Shrine of storms felt filled with wonders and treasures, The mines were ok.

And there is no moment, not in any Dark souls Game, that could outstand the epic Tower Knight intro.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V8Zi4lT_wQ (I don´t know how to put videos)

Check the numbers in my post, they are not a mistake

But, yea, Demon's rules the atmosphere. Dark1 was OK until the lord vessel, lets not talk about the rest.
Lore is probably deepest in Dark2 but it's convoluted and why should you even care.
In terms of bosses, Demons's of course. But Dark2 and Artorias DLC were good too. Dark1 fell short.

 

[joest01]

Dark2 = best gameplay.
Demon's = best atmosphere and organized pvp.
Dark1= best forgotten.

How anybody can want to go back to directional rolling is beyond me.

Just curious, what do you mean by directional rolling? Surely you roll in a direction whatever the case?

left, right, up or down. Not sure what the right name is, you might actually use the directional pad for it. Dark2 has what I would call analog rolling.

 

[Valkrex]

Personally I love both of the Dark Souls games (never got around to Demon's as I don't own a PS3) but I do feel that overall DS2's combat is an improvement over the first.

HOWEVER, I have 2 main problems with DS2's PVP.

1. Overbuffing. There was a reason you could only apply one body buff at a time in DS1, as a lot of the body buffs such as Great Magic Barrier or Replenishment were VERY powerful so stacking would break a lot of the fights. For whatever reason DS2 decided to allow buff stacking, so we see GMB + Numbness a LOT, and its very difficult to do any noticeable damage to anyone with both of those buffs active.

2. Criticals and critical blocking. I do find backstab fishing rather annoying, but the fact that they made it so a backstab isn't instant is a plus in my eyes, but being able to flat out negate backstab damage completely is just dumb. Parrying with a dagger is also annoying as hell, as it is usually an instakill. In DS1 a parry could deal MASSIVE damage as it was supposed to, but it was rarely in instant death from full health provided you actually put points into your health.


Other than those 2 gripes I really enjoy the DS2 pvp. I just feel that it could use a few more balance patches before it reaches its potential, just as DS1 needed several before it really shined. I didn't feel it was slower thant DS1, maybe a bit more methodical as there are more moves/countermoves to be used so there seems to me that there is more thought required behind each move. I like it as it seems to make each fight more dynamic than it otherwise would be.

Its fast paced, there's usually a lot of variety (outside of the copy/paste min/max no effort build copying players that have no desire to experiment that were prevalent in every Souls game) and with SM (YES I ACTUALLY LIKE SM and I have characters in the 15mil range so don't even START with me on this) I can find people at all levels to play with whether its for PVP or PVE, so I never reach a deadzone which happened all too often in DS1. I can also keep leveling my character and try out all kinds of wacky combinations of equipment without worrying about cutting myself off from the multiplayer.


I see this topic come up a lot and its usually pretty polarizing. Seems to me like with Demons, Dark 1 and Dark 2 there's a game for everyone to enjoy they just need to find the right one for them. They all seem pretty simillar, just different in the subtleties, and its the subtleties in any game that often dictate one's opinion on it.

I personally prefer Dark Souls 2 to Dark Souls 1 in many areas, but I wouldn't say its a better or worse game than its predecessors. Comparable definitely as it improved in several areas, but doesn't measure up in others. The Lore is just as great once you piece it together, the bosses are still a ton of fun (even if there are a few too many Dudes in Armor) multiplayer connectivity is GREATLY improved despite some lag and iffy netcode, I like the fast paced and yet still weighty combat more than DS1's (which was still fantastic just feels a bit floaty in comparison) the covenants are a LOT of fun and more varied then last time, and its easier to connect with friends through the name-engraved-ring.

I found the PVE against normal enemies to be about the same as DS1 in terms of difficulty and learning curve. It tests you just as hard as the first Dark Souls, while still being fair. Except the Shrine of Amana. That area is just bullshit.

However, the level/world design is weaker than the first Dark Souls. Still leaps and bounds above most RPG's I've played, but I miss the interconnected feeling Lordran had, and there weren't as many memorable areas as there were in DS1. There are also fewer memorable characters. I love Lucatiel, The Emerald Herald, Benhart, Vengarl, and several other NPC's, but DS1 just had more stories tied to its characters, and more interesting ones at that.

Wow, that wall of text came out of nowhere.


TL;DR

I found DS2 comparable to DS1 as it fixed/improved upon many things, but didn't measure up in others. PVP wise I really enjoy it, but find overbuffing and the critical system to be a bit flawed and I definitely feel there needs to be a few more balancing patches before it really comes into its own.

Also, no fucking GFWL on PC this time

 

[lapan]

Dark2 = best gameplay.
Demon's = best atmosphere and organized pvp.
Dark1= best forgotten.

How anybody can want to go back to directional rolling is beyond me.

I actually prefered DaS1 to DaS2.

Both bosses and weapons just felt a lot more interesting in comparison. that, and i don't forgive them for not including the bonewheel shield.

 

[joest01]

Dark2 = best gameplay.
Demon's = best atmosphere and organized pvp.
Dark1= best forgotten.

How anybody can want to go back to directional rolling is beyond me.

I actually prefered DaS1 to DaS2.

Both bosses and weapons just felt a lot more interesting in comparison. that, and i don't forgive them for not including the bonewheel shield.

You mean you liked your weapon better. There is no way you liked bows, whips, caestus or bare hands better. Or dual wielding. Or the weapon upgrade system. I do not even know what to say about the bosses. Unless you are talking about O&S or the DLC bosses. I don't use shields so I can't comment on that.

 

[lapan]

Dark2 = best gameplay.
Demon's = best atmosphere and organized pvp.
Dark1= best forgotten.

How anybody can want to go back to directional rolling is beyond me.

I actually prefered DaS1 to DaS2.

Both bosses and weapons just felt a lot more interesting in comparison. that, and i don't forgive them for not including the bonewheel shield.

You mean you liked your weapon better. There is no way you liked bows, whips, caestus or bare hands better. Or dual wielding. Or the weapon upgrade system. I do not even know what to say about the bosses. Unless you are talking about O&S or the DLC bosses. I don't use shields so I can't comment on that.

I liked weapons in general better. 90% of Dark souls 2 weapons use the same moveset. Silly weapons either didn't get added or are nerfed, especially on the pc version where durability degrades faster because fromsoft can't code 60 fps for shit.

 

[garjian]

I liked weapons in general better. 90% of Dark souls 2 weapons use the same moveset. Silly weapons either didn't get added or are nerfed, especially on the pc version where durability degrades faster because fromsoft can't code 60 fps for shit.

90% of the weapons in DS1 were unviable.

To be honest I must prefer DS2 PvP to DS1, or I would were it not for Soul Memory.
Soul Memory = no hard level restrictions.
No level restrictions = 99END.
99END = Me rolling around for 8 hours avoiding 970,000 greatsword swings in a row, and even though I'm completely out of range of all of them, if I even think to not roll one of them I'll get hit, comboed and almost killed... because I don't use Havel's. Best I can hope for as a clash, and on my character I played enough to reach that SM bracket I use Daggers.
Bare in mind also, that by the time I close in with the Daggers, they have full stamina again.

...and they send me hatemail about using poison?

Don't get me wrong, I win most of the time, but it's not fun and that's almost entirely due to Soul Memory... DS2 PvP is so almost good it's frustrating to me.

Dark Souls 1 was all exploits and glitches. To put a ring around why I hated it so much, let me ask you why, in that game, Ultra Greatswords are the weapons of back-stabbing-rouge style gameplay, and Daggers are the weapons of I-am-a-free-kill style gameplay.
If I swung my Zweihander in DS1, it would be blocked and I would be lagstabbed. If I ever fought anybody good, it would be toggle escaped and I would be actually backstabbed... For daring to swing my weapon. So I'm relegated to Hornet Ring lagstabbing, but even that isn't enough... I then had to make excuses for my character to have Pyromancy, compromising my character, just so I could have some kind of wakeup pressure.
Later on, I made another STR character... Club/Faith. He again, had basically no ability beyond lagstabbing, except this time I had dead-angle WotG. It was so easy I barely even wanted to fight anyone, not that I ever did anyway.

PvE, I much prefer 1. It's a genuinely fascinating and usually fun game, providing you're using one of the more balanced weapons.
PvP, I prefer 2, but it's so aggravatingly close to being playable that attempting to play it is more frustrating than anything. If they'd just fix that one thing, I'd be having fun. ... ...and maybe Havel's.

 

[lapan]

90% of the weapons in DS1 were unviable.

I'm purely speaking from a PvE perspective, you could make pretty much everything viable.

 

[joest01]

90% of the weapons in DS1 were unviable.

I'm purely speaking from a PvE perspective, you could make pretty much everything viable.

If that is your idea of good gameplay we have very little common ground to tread on