King Monarch said:
Quite frankly both you and the first person to respond immediately reminded me of both myself and of friends defending certain characters out of sheer fanboyism. So yes, I was talking about the Death Battle culture and the "who can kill who" ideal in general. The last thread to invoke similar was the "Can Batman defeat all of the Avengers by himself" one, which is spawned from a similar mindset. I'd also had similar feelings on a "One-Punch Man vs DBZ" comment someone else made. That one actually convinced me to fully watch OPM, and surprisingly enough my feelings on the debate actually flipped because of it. I'd thought that, given Saitima's training, that the idea of him being able to beat -anyone- in DBZ is laughable. Seeing it in action and the justification used for it, as silly as it is, I actually rank him up to Krillin/Tien Tier, which is quite amazing for a human.
King Monarch said:
Wow, so link is gona allow something to reoccur a whopping four times - 7 times?
... the thing being pointed out happening 4-7 times was in -Link-'s favor. The idea that if Link got ganked somehow, he could have a fairy in a bottle to give him a second chance. Though I don't think they have the advantage of restoring the user to full hp. It's usually 8 hearts, which I think Link at his best in most games gets up to around 20?
King Monarch said:
Whats stopping link from killing hades the first failed attempt hes called?
Not the summon being invoked. There's also the question of whether or not FF7 summons that only stick around for their single instance can be killed. Bahamut Sin was kept around for far longer than most summons, even Knights of the Round. And quite frankly, there's not even concise evidence that the summon was no longer re-usable after it was defeated.
Amusingly enough, Hades doesn't deal Darkness Damage either. His effect is entirely non-elemental magic, while being able to also cripple the target with several different status effects.
King Monarch said:
Yeah. It's a combo in the games. I don't do the "source a source b source c etc" thing. I tend to stick to a narrow yet similar frame of abilities, for both sides of a debate. Such as sticking to recent cinema canon for Batman vs Avengers (giving Batman the Dark Knight Trilogy to balance out the lesser number of movies on his end, and just comparing him to each hero individually), to keep the debate fair. Otherwise you can look for any random writer's random interpretation of any event and pull from that, at which point it comes down to who can come up with the most random bullcrap to decide a fight.
In this case, I was considering just what Link's been capable using mostly his standardized moveset, but including potential outliers, from appearances in which you can actually play as him (I'd make a list, but Link's had -SO- many adventures), and likewise giving Cloud effects based on his mechanics in FF7, with mild consideration of Advent Children, Kingdom Hearts, and Dissidia, but as outliers to the magic and limits he can use in FF7.
King Monarch said:
How can cloud even get that close with over 20 different 100+ foot long range attack combos to utilize any magic?
... other than the Bow and Arrow while sniping, I don't think Link has that many ranged attacks. He usually uses the Bow not too far outside of his regular melee range, anyway, usually just for those hanging outside of his jump-attack reach or that have weakspots vulnerable to piercing damage.
But to answer your question, Cloud's got a Speed Stat to work with, a Motorcycle to use to get in close, and the ability to use Materia to perform ranged hits with both his sword and with magic if I remember correctly. I'd go with the Motorcycle to get in range, given that Link's never had to fire at anything moving that quickly before. ... the visual of Cloud on his cycle chasing a horse-back Link firing arrows at him is freaking awesome, mind. I'ma go look up fan art of that.
King Monarch said:
Can you show us cloud using materia even in a 30 foot radius?
If it allows him to match the distance used by a man firing a machine-gun at range, then using the materia in game counts easily, yeah, assuming his ability to chase people down, on foot or on his motor-cycle (or a Chocobo, quite frankly) don't count (which if Link gets Epona or similar, so should Cloud). But I get the feeling no mechanical conversation is going to mean anything here.
King Monarch said:
These are game mechanics, other wise cloud stands still for entire minutes at a time choosing a plan of attack.
Depends on the rules of engagement used. Cloud's been rendered fighting both in real time (albeit with questionable canocity on Dissidia's and Kingdom Hearts' part and definite non-canocity on Smash Bros' part) and in ATB. I like the idea that either character would be subject to the rules impossed on the other's universe or put in a shared universe that's fair to both.
Hell, the best way to settle the Death Battle would probably have been to settle in Smash at this point. I'd have been down for that.
King Monarch said:
Lab restoratives? And how much times can he restore himself? Last time I checked he can only use each spell altogether just once, he doesn't have 99 elixirs to replenish his magic that can fit in his two pockets.
Link can carry an entire universe in his bag, it shows this through out the entire series.
Interesting how one character is prohibited from using his in game inventory yet the other "can carry an entire universe in his bag". I think I'll let the heavy contrast in these two remarks speak for itself.
King Monarch said:
Kaiju weapons? The one he has to lvl up with the aid of his entire team to contend with?
Actually, Solo Character runs are entirely viable in FF7. Cloud's been able to take on the WEAPONS single handedly. There are a few videos featuring Ruby and Emerald Weapon for instance.
King Monarch said:
Safer sephiroth would be a mere jumping stone like all the 100's of bosses link has solo'd.
Most of which were done using a weapon that the being is intrinsically weak against. Though this point was not to diminish Link's ability to slay Eldritch Abominations; merely to state that it wouldn't be an impossible fight for Cloud even with either of them invoked.
King Monarch said:
... honestly, it's this part right here that's making me abandon thread. You make any decent point you do come up with meaningless by immaturely and directly firing insults at other people. It absolutely kills any desire to keep going. I did no straw-manning. I considered options fairly, even invoking the Fierce Deity's Mask, which is probably pound for pound the strongest option Link has to fight with, and having multiple bottles for the sake of refilling his health, magic, both, or getting additional chances; I'd have thought that'd show a genuine interest in spending some time having a fun debate. I was willing to play the game, even after the few warning shots. But if you're going to keep insulting me, then there's no point in continuing.
Kinda sad, honestly. I -am- a Nintendo fanboy, or at least a self-described one, in any case, believe it or not. I was enjoying thinking about this. Wondering if, because of his items and their wide range of use, for example, that Link could triumph were he able to fight in a ruinous setting, where he'd be able to make better use of the terrain, a bit like Spiderman vs Batman if I remember that arguement.
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