Defining Feminism

[Kinshar]

Since there seems to be some disagreement on the definition.

It is easy to assume that feminists are only concerned with women's issues. After all the term is derived from the Latin word for woman. However, there are actually different camps in feminism.

Narrow-focus Egalitarian Feminist This is the group most commentators are thinking of when they hear feminist. This type of feminist is only concerned with the disparities between men and women in society. Correcting wage inequality between men and women doing the same work is one of the goals of Narrow-focus Egalitarian Feminists.

Egalitarian Feminist This faction of Feminism could be better termed as humanists. They are interested in women's issues, but they also have concerns for other minorities and oppressed groups. Egalitarian Feminists push for racial equality as well as gender equality. They might push for more funding of inner cities schools to give minority students, male and female, a better chance at a college education.


Radical FeministThis is the firebrand variety of feminist. Often called feminazis they have a poor opinion of men and their achievements. They want to over throw the patriarchal structure and restart with women in charge. This is the type of feminist that right-wingers assume the other two types to actually be.

Most people who consider themselves feminists are going to have aspects of two or more of these types.

This is intended as a debate thread so feel free to chime in with your rebuttals.

 

[Phasmal]

Your definitions are pretty good. I guess I'm in the middle one. That said...
Feminism is a personal thing and hardly any two feminists think alike so painting them all with a broad brush is just plain dumb but this is the internet so that is what happens. All feminists get painted with the feminazi brush.

I for one, wish these conversations would just go away. They get nowhere. Haters gonna hate and all that.

Now, for the shitstorm...

 

[jackpackage200]

Male here,

I guess I too fall under the second catagory. I want a future where misogyny, racism, and homophobia are no longer acceptable. I want a world where someone will not be discriminated against for things they can't and should never change.

 

[Doclector]

Since there seems to be some disagreement on the definition.

It is easy to assume that feminists are only concerned with women's issues. After all the term is derived from the Latin word for woman. However, there are actually different camps in feminism.

Narrow-focus Egalitarian Feminist This is the group most commentators are thinking of when they hear feminist. This type of feminist is only concerned with the disparities between men and women in society. Correcting wage inequality between men and women doing the same work is one of the goals of Narrow-focus Egalitarian Feminists.

Egalitarian Feminist This faction of Feminism could be better termed as humanists. They are interested in women's issues, but they also have concerns for other minorities and oppressed groups. Egalitarian Feminists push for racial equality as well as gender equality. They might push for more funding of inner cities schools to give minority students, male and female, a better chance at a college education.


Radical FeministThis is the firebrand variety of feminist. Often called feminazis they have a poor opinion of men and their achievements. They want to over throw the patriarchal structure and restart with women in charge. This is the type of feminist that right-wingers assume the other two types to actually be.

Most people who consider themselves feminists are going to have aspects of two or more of these types.

This is intended as a debate thread so feel free to chime in with your rebuttals.

I pretty much. Though, couldn't it be said that anyone could be egalitarian by that definition? I'd certainly say that I'm against the poor treatment of certain groups. Or rather, people who treat certain groups poorly piss me the hell off.

And thus, I hate feminazis. I will never apolgise for it, as they are pretty much as bad as any racist, or indeed the "sexist pigs" they often assume men to be. In line with my beliefs, they are part of the problem, and can, frankly, go die in a fire with the everyone else who's needlessly discriminatory.

 

[Rose and Thorn]

I have always though of a feminist as someone that fights for women to have equal rights as men, so they support equality. Atleast thats how most the feminists I knew preach.

I am feminist and also a male.

 

[Spoonius]

I would classify your second definition as "equalism", with feminism (of any kind) being a sub-sect of equalism.

My vague definition of feminism has always been 'the socio-political advancement of women'. I stick with a vague definition because the movement as a whole is extremely comprehensive, and covers various different ideologies and methodologies.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

I have a simple definition.

Feminist = someone who believes in the equal treatment of women in society but doesn't actually label themselves as a feminist (i.e. most reasonable people, be they men or women).

Radical feminist = person who hides behind feminism in an attempt to spread her own brand of ignorance.

Sure, the issue is more complicated than that, but I like to follow these base lines when I approach the subject.

 

[Esotera]

Was this really necessary? It gets discussed relatively frequently round here, and I think most people are ok on the definitions.

I wouldn't classify myself as a feminist due to the connotations that brings, but I'm most definitely for the equal treatment of every human being, regardless of gender, race, age, disability, or health.

Also, fuck third-wave feminism (I think those are the ones that think all men are evil rapists)

 

[Cheery Lunatic]

Most of the people I've met (whether in forums or irl) who are self-proclaimed feminists, are usually in the RAAWRRR MEN ARE EVIL & INFERIOR camp.

I guess I'm technically a feminist (just going by definition) but the term itself gives me the jitters just because of the negative connotation (and people) associated with it.

 

[Final First]

Feminism is a personal thing and hardly any two feminists think alike so painting them all with a broad brush is just plain dumb but this is the internet so that is what happens. All feminists get painted with the feminazi brush.

What I don't understand is why this isn't considered about every other form of belief, such as religion, atheism and other political standpoints. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, I just had the urge to point it out since you were on the subject anyway.

Captcha: Top Notch. Thanks captcha.

 

[peruvianskys]

Your definitions aren't fair at all.

Radical feminism refers to the school of feminist thought that places the responsibility for female oppression at the feet of male supremacy expressed through relational power structures. It has nothing to do with "extremeness" - radical here refers to "relating to or affecting the fundamental nature of something," i.e. a belief that male supremacy is not based in legal systems (liberal feminism), ecological utilization (ecofeminism), or political/economic systems (Marxism) but instead that those oppressive systems have their root in the most basic expression of male supremacy that exists in interpersonal relationships.

Just to clear that up. Your definitions might be accurate stereotypes in some cases but they don't actually have a meaning in any academic or theoretical sense.

Also, the idea that most feminists don't care about anything but feminism is ridiculous. The reason you think that is because any woman who identifies as a "feminist" is only going to do so when the conversation relates to feminism. To say, "I'm tired of feminists who only care about feminism" is a really silly thing to say. I'm sure 75% of the women you see in any area, from ecology to economics to engineering are feminists who care deeply about those non-feminist subjects; it's just that they cease to act in those areas as "feminists."

The best example I think of is someone complaining, "Why doesn't Superman do anything but fight crime?" Of course he does other things, it's just that he isn't identified as "Superman" when he does those things which do not relate to crime-fighting.

Make sense?

 

[Phasmal]

Feminism is a personal thing and hardly any two feminists think alike so painting them all with a broad brush is just plain dumb but this is the internet so that is what happens. All feminists get painted with the feminazi brush.

What I don't understand is why this isn't considered about every other form of belief, such as religion, atheism and other political standpoints. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, I just had the urge to point it out since you were on the subject anyway.

Captcha: Top Notch. Thanks captcha.

Dont know what you mean, exactly. Everybody does pretty much get painted with the shit-brush of the vocal minority.

You an atheist? You must be angry and just mad at god.
You a Christian? You must be homophobic and angry at atheists!

And so on and so forth.

EDIT: Oh my god. I wrote `atheist` wrong. I swear my spelling is getting worse. I think my brain is melting.

 

[mirasiel]

Also, fuck third-wave feminism (I think those are the ones that think all men are evil rapists)

Um, I think thats the seperatists you're thinking of...they are..not a majority afaik except on the internet.

 

[3quency]

It's my understanding that there are a few more than just these trains. But research is boring, so I'll allow somebody more committed than me to confirm that.

Personally? I suppose I'd be in the Egalitarian Feminism camp.
If I could be called a feminist at all, but that's not really up to me in my opinion.

 

[guitarsniper]

I'd drop in another category, which can possibly be considered a subcategory of all three, which is the Scientific Feminist, who uses things like Brain structure to explain differences between men and women, often in my experience at least attempting to show that women are somehow inherently better at certain tasks, often ones that society values. These don't seem like they're very common, but I bring them up because my mother went through a phase of reading bad neuroscience a few years back.

 

[Amgeo]

I guess I just sort of assumed that feminism would be directly related to the issues that surround that gender. I mostly think of #1 as feminism, and I dislike #3. Not to say that #2 is bad, I just don't think of racism and homophobia as part of feminism. They are their own problems that humanity needs to work on.

Then again, maybe we should be uniting all forms of bigotry. I haven't met too many racists, but I don't see why they would be feminists or LGBT allies. Perhaps Egalitarian Feminism is the way to go.

 

[Superlative]

Your definitions aren't fair at all.

Radical feminism refers to the school of feminist thought that places the responsibility for female oppression at the feet of male supremacy expressed through relational power structures. It has nothing to do with "extremeness" - radical here refers to "relating to or affecting the fundamental nature of something," i.e. a belief that male supremacy is not based in legal systems (liberal feminism), ecological utilization (ecofeminism), or political/economic systems (Marxism) but instead that those oppressive systems have their root in the most basic expression of male supremacy that exists in interpersonal relationships.

Just to clear that up. Your definitions might be accurate stereotypes in some cases but they don't actually have a meaning in any academic or theoretical sense.

Also, the idea that most feminists don't care about anything but feminism is ridiculous. The reason you think that is because any woman who identifies as a "feminist" is only going to do so when the conversation relates to feminism. To say, "I'm tired of feminists who only care about feminism" is a really silly thing to say. I'm sure 75% of the women you see in any area, from ecology to economics to engineering are feminists who care deeply about those non-feminist subjects; it's just that they cease to act in those areas as "feminists."

The best example I think of is someone complaining, "Why doesn't Superman do anything but fight crime?" Of course he does other things, it's just that he isn't identified as "Superman" when he does those things which do not relate to crime-fighting.

Make sense?

wait a second... did i just find a glimmer of logical, well thought out argument in what is destined to become a white knight epeen stroking contest!

i mean sure things are ok now, but just wait 3 pages.

 

[rawrmonsta]

I guess I just sort of assumed that feminism would be directly related to the issues that surround that gender. I mostly think of #1 as feminism, and I dislike #3. Not to say that #2 is bad, I just don't think of racism and homophobia as part of feminism. They are their own problems that humanity needs to work on.

Then again, maybe we should be uniting all forms of bigotry. I haven't met too many racists, but I don't see why they would be feminists or LGBT allies. Perhaps Egalitarian Feminism is the way to go.

I agree that #3 is really the part that I and most I suspect don't like. My experience with feminism is basically one big extremely sensitive fan club. Most feminists I talk to are perfectly civil until you question something they say then they get extremely upset. Which is kind of unfortunate as I'm a big fan of playing devils advocate and looking at the counter argument for anything I'm being told. And Ive got to say, The counter arguments to a lot of feminism's main arguments are pretty strong.

Take the wage gap for example. The "80c to the dollar" number gets thrown around a lot and its one of the major factors behind many feminists (at least initially) getting outspoken about women's issues. Which is great, except its majorly exaggerated. I'm getting that this kinda topic comes up a lot here so Ill refrain from going into massive detail but suffice to say once the proper factors are considered (Hazard pay, Leave, seniority etc etc) The gap is mostly accounted for. Not entirely, but the "80c to the dollar" example is definitely not an accurate number.

Getting to the point now I'm fine with feminism wanting to help equalize things. but doing it from a purely woman's point of view and not looking at the whole picture is a bad way of going about it. Like the post I quoted said I think it would be much more effective to consolidate these kind of " ____ rights" groups together and work it out. As currently you have some of the groups clashing pretty hard. Most notably the Feminist and MRA community's. Which leads me to categorize most feminists in the same boat, as very few are willing to accept any criticism of their arguments.

 

[Final First]

Dont know what you mean, exactly. Everybody does pretty much get painted with the shit-brush of the vocal minority.

You an atheist? You must be angry and just mad at god.
You a Christian? You must be homophobic and angry at atheists!

And so on and so forth.

EDIT: Oh my god. I wrote `atheist` wrong. I swear my spelling is getting worse. I think my brain is melting.

That is what I mean. I said it poorly but I meant what you just said. I was just pointing out that it is very unfortunate that feminists aren't the only ones painted with the shit-brush. Not only that but they are the only group that I see people defending against the shit-brush like you did. It's sad.