The purpose of this thread is to establish, or at least debate the relevance of "Left Versus Right" labels. My idea is that such arguments make little sense in today's world, and I will give several arguments as to why.
The idea of Left V Right was established by the French government (2nd or 3rd republic, cant remember) when seating politicians. (literally which side of the aisle, but translated into political stance) First of all, why should modern, educated people (even modern French citizens) use archaic labels from a system that "defunct" by 3 government changes and 150 years. (France is considered to be in its 5th Republic stage, each "republic, a major overhaul of the governing system or its constitution)
Left v Right
Liberal v Conservative
Rights of man V Rights of Property
Global citizen v national citizen
These are all acceptable terminology to use, interchangeable. But they have some Grey area's, you can see this in an argument between people over Hitler, Liberals want Hitler to be considered conservative because he was Nationalistic and Militaristic, Conservatives want him to be considered Liberal because he was for Gun control and a socialist. Anyone see the difficulty in establishing guidelines.
Who is more Liberal (as communism is considered a liberal ideal) Ghandi or Stalin???? You cant really make that call on a sliding left right scale. I like to use a system inspired by the scale used in games like Neverwinter Nights (don't leave yet) which I believe came form Dungeons and Dragons. That system has Lawful versus Chaotic (up/down) and Good versus Evil (left right)
Now not to say that Conservative is evil or that Liberal is Good, it still allows for gray area. But we have modern words with modern concepts for lawful and chaotic. Libertarian (extreme would be Anarchist) and Authoritarian (extreme would be Dictatorship or autocracy)
This allows for situations like, Obama, who is on the Left Side, but actually upper left (Liberal Autocratic)<--- not in classic Greek sense but because of his economic policies involving government control/nationalization. Bush, would be upper right, (Conservative Nationalistic/militaristic) because he believes in lower taxes and such as a conservative, but also is aggressive in defense and foreign policy.
Dont turn this into a Political leader bashing thread please, but try and find comprable political leaders or rivals and where they stand, or where you yourself would go, I also think that discussion of where certain issues fall would be acceptable. (for example, Pro-abortion would be a lower left ideology, anti-abortion more upper right, because technically your looking at government control or lack of in that case) Remember, morality doesnt always play into (Stalin, a leftist, had death squads too!)
Dictator
Authoritarian
Communist Liberal Conservative Facist
Libertarian
Anarchist
Any thoughts?
The idea of Left V Right was established by the French government (2nd or 3rd republic, cant remember) when seating politicians. (literally which side of the aisle, but translated into political stance) First of all, why should modern, educated people (even modern French citizens) use archaic labels from a system that "defunct" by 3 government changes and 150 years. (France is considered to be in its 5th Republic stage, each "republic, a major overhaul of the governing system or its constitution)
Left v Right
Liberal v Conservative
Rights of man V Rights of Property
Global citizen v national citizen
These are all acceptable terminology to use, interchangeable. But they have some Grey area's, you can see this in an argument between people over Hitler, Liberals want Hitler to be considered conservative because he was Nationalistic and Militaristic, Conservatives want him to be considered Liberal because he was for Gun control and a socialist. Anyone see the difficulty in establishing guidelines.
Who is more Liberal (as communism is considered a liberal ideal) Ghandi or Stalin???? You cant really make that call on a sliding left right scale. I like to use a system inspired by the scale used in games like Neverwinter Nights (don't leave yet) which I believe came form Dungeons and Dragons. That system has Lawful versus Chaotic (up/down) and Good versus Evil (left right)
Now not to say that Conservative is evil or that Liberal is Good, it still allows for gray area. But we have modern words with modern concepts for lawful and chaotic. Libertarian (extreme would be Anarchist) and Authoritarian (extreme would be Dictatorship or autocracy)
This allows for situations like, Obama, who is on the Left Side, but actually upper left (Liberal Autocratic)<--- not in classic Greek sense but because of his economic policies involving government control/nationalization. Bush, would be upper right, (Conservative Nationalistic/militaristic) because he believes in lower taxes and such as a conservative, but also is aggressive in defense and foreign policy.
Dont turn this into a Political leader bashing thread please, but try and find comprable political leaders or rivals and where they stand, or where you yourself would go, I also think that discussion of where certain issues fall would be acceptable. (for example, Pro-abortion would be a lower left ideology, anti-abortion more upper right, because technically your looking at government control or lack of in that case) Remember, morality doesnt always play into (Stalin, a leftist, had death squads too!)
Dictator
Authoritarian
Communist Liberal Conservative Facist
Libertarian
Anarchist
Any thoughts?
