Deus Ex makes me feel like a hypocrite

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Grabbin Keelz

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So I found out about this game a week before it was released and there were three reasons I wanted to get it. It was a stealth game, it promised a good story, and it came with TF2 hats.

One of the first few things I thought about while playing was how much of a hypocrite Jensen was, or maybe it was me. At the beginning of the game Jensen talks with his girlfriend (which took me awhile to figure out since he displays almost no affection towards her) about how he's against the company making military augments. There was even a demonstration of a weapon called 'Typhoon' which kills everyone around the user, Jensen seemed opposed to these inventions. Then, less than an hour into the game, Jensen himself becomes super augmented and even later uses the same exact Typhoon weapon he was against. He says every now and again about how he was forced to get the augments and he didn't have a choice, yet I was willingly getting new upgrades and prosthetics all the time.
EDIT: Ok so those upgrades are optional and aren't required in the main missions, so I guess that's on me.

In the trailer for the game, I saw that augmented (robotic implanted) people had a serious side effect where they had to take this drug and unless they had their regular dose of robococaine their body would reject the augments and they would die.
"oh" I thought, "Well since my character is augmented up the ass then I'll have to take that drug too and maybe even begin to understand the consequences of playing God" however, the game soon explains that Jensen is the only augmented being who doesn't need to take the drug. So whenever I see someone suffering from withdrawal or talking about how much they hate augments I can't feel as sympathetic towards them.

These next bits don't have to do with the hypocrite parts, I just wanted to mention them.

While it was pretty neat how you are given the option to play the entire game without killing anyone, it seems more of a logical option than a moral one. Knocking someone out is silent and much more efficient than killing (it takes almost a whole rifle clip to kill a heavy, but it only takes one tranquilizer dart to knock him out). I wish they would give the option of not killing the bosses too, just for the sake of consistency.

One more thing that really pisses me off, you can get caught while hacking. You can't look around much while hacking so if someone sees you, you won't know until you already get shot and let me explain what this is like. You remember those parts in old cartoons where a character is about to cross a street, he looks left then right then left then right and just when it seems clear he crosses he gets hit by a car? THAT'S WHAT IT'S LIKE!....also the loading time takes forever which doesn't help if you suck at stealth games like me and die a lot.
 

Spygon

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I thought is was a choice am i reading too much into these games again?.As i was thinking along the line of jensen as he was forced to become augmented but then had to decide between augmenting yourself forcefully or letting your body do it naturally.If this isnt a game play choice why am i walking around with all these damn points as i play the game as pretty much basic jensen lol.

Also when your hacking use your ears listen for footstep or people shouting at you asking you to stop.This might help you not contantly getting shot but it does annoy me still abit.
 

Catchy Slogan

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I agree with pretty much everyone else, in that you were the one that chose to continue augmenting Jensen, and you could have decided to not augment him anymore by not spending Praxis Points.

Edit: what you do with Jensen is up to you.

 

Inkidu

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Grabbin Keelz said:
So I found out about this game a week before it was released and there were three reasons I wanted to get it. It was a stealth game, it promised a good story, and it came with TF2 hats.

One of the first few things I thought about while playing was how much of a hypocrite Jensen was, or maybe it was me. At the beginning of the game Jensen talks with his girlfriend (which took me awhile to figure out since he displays almost no affection towards her) about how he's against the company making military augments. There was even a demonstration of a weapon called 'Typhoon' which kills everyone around the user, Jensen seemed opposed to these inventions. Then, less than an hour into the game, Jensen himself becomes super augmented and even later uses the same exact Typhoon weapon he was against. He says every now and again about how he was forced to get the augments and he didn't have a choice, yet I was willingly getting new upgrades and prosthetics all the time.

In the trailer for the game, I saw that augmented (robotic implanted) people had a serious side effect where they had to take this drug and unless they had their regular dose of robococaine their body would reject the augments and they would die.
"oh" I thought, "Well since my character is augmented up the ass then I'll have to take that drug too and maybe even begin to understand the consequences of playing God" however, the game soon explains that Jensen is the only augmented being who doesn't need to take the drug. So whenever I see someone suffering from withdrawal or talking about how much they hate augments I can't feel as sympathetic towards them.

These next bits don't have to do with the hypocrite parts, I just wanted to mention them.

While it was pretty neat how you are given the option to play the entire game without killing anyone, it seems more of a logical option than a moral one. Knocking someone out is silent and much more efficient than killing (it takes almost a whole rifle clip to kill a heavy, but it only takes one tranquilizer dart to knock him out). I wish they would give the option of not killing the bosses too, just for the sake of consistency.

One more thing that really pisses me off, you can get caught while hacking. You can't look around much while hacking so if someone sees you, you won't know until you already get shot and let me explain what this is like. You remember those parts in old cartoons where a character is about to cross a street, he looks left then right then left then right and just when it seems clear he crosses he gets hit by a car? THAT'S WHAT IT'S LIKE!....also the loading time takes forever which doesn't help if you suck at stealth games like me and die a lot.
Jensen is kind of a middle man who you tweak. Sure he says he doesn't particularly agree with DoD weapons contracts, but later he goes on to say that augs have helped people. He never asked for what happened to him so how he actually deals with that is up to you.

He's not so much a hypocrite as he is a middle man. Not your average joe type but a guy who sees both side of the issue.
 

Zhukov

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Dec 29, 2009
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He doesn't show much affection toward Megan Reed because she's his ex-girlfriend. Although they obviously still have some feelings for each other.

Like you said, he didn't get any say in the matter with the augmentations. In fact (minor spoiler incoming) if you dig around a bit you'll find out that the augmentation he received went significantly beyond what was neccesary to save his life. And if you don't want to upgrade then... just don't. I'm at least halfway through and I still haven't bought the Typhoon (it strikes me as being too overpowered and I like a challenge.)

I'm pretty sure there's a very specific reason why Adam doesn't need the NP injections, especially considering the nature of the research that Sariff was doing. I'm not 100% sure about that though.

As for the other parts, the main advantage of killing is that they can't be woken up again. If a guard finds an unconscious friend, he'll revive him and they'll both go into alert.

Yeah, I got caught hacking a few times as well. Scared the crap out of me. Especially the one time when I thought I'd cleared the area.
 

Inkidu

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Zhukov said:
He doesn't show much affection toward Megan Reed because she's his ex-girlfriend. Although they obviously still have some feelings for each other.

Like you said, he didn't get any say in the matter with the augmentations. In fact (minor spoiler incoming) if you dig around a bit you'll find out that the augmentation he received went significantly beyond what was neccesary to save his life. And if you don't want to upgrade then... just don't. I'm at least halfway through and I still haven't bought the Typhoon (it strikes me as being too overpowered and I like a challenge.)

I'm pretty sure there's a very specific reason why Adam doesn't need the NP injections, especially considering the nature of the research that Sariff was doing. I'm not 100% sure about that though.

As for the other parts, the main advantage of killing is that they can't be woken up again. If a guard finds an unconscious friend, he'll revive him and they'll both go into alert.

Yeah, I got caught hacking a few times as well. Scared the crap out of me. Especially the one time when I thought I'd cleared the area.
The typhoon is not that over-powered. It requires one whole energy cell and one thing of ammo. Then the radius is only a few feet out in all directions. I used it about five times because you soon realize that in a lot of situations you usually have run or walk into the midst of gun toting meanies. Still, the upgrade kiss robots so it's a handy thing for taking out robots without a lot of effort (say if you're sans one EMP device).

The most fun I had was with the Icarus Landing system. I don't think I'll ever play a game where I don't have it. :D
 

Grabbin Keelz

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Zhukov said:
He doesn't show much affection toward Megan Reed because she's his ex-girlfriend.
Wow, that's news to me. I thought everyone kept calling her my ex-girlfriend because she was dead and they were being pricks XD
I'm playing again without killing anyone which means no Typhoon, and now that I think about it there was never a time in the main missions where you absolutely HAD to have upgrades, so I guess that's on me.

Inkidu said:
The most fun I had was with the Icarus Landing system. I don't think I'll ever play a game where I don't have it. :D
Definitely my favorite augment upgrade. You look so badass descending from a five story building.
 

Stall

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At its very core, Deus Ex is an RPG. Jensen does have his own personality to some extent, yet many of his choices and beliefs are ambivalent enough to allow you (the player) to shape his beliefs to a more concrete level matching how you want to play. Sure, Jensen might not have chose to be augmented and even seems opposed to military grade augment at first, but any backstory becomes mostly irrelevant once the other characters start asking you what you think of your augments shortly after the first mission. So Jensen is only a hypocrite if you chose to play or shape his personality as such, as after that opening cinematic, you are the one with free reigns over his behavior and beliefs.

Oh, and make sure to upgrade your weapons, or just use the 10mm. A pimped out 10mm can kill a heavy in one or two shots, as can the sniper rifle.

Spygon said:
I thought is was a choice am i reading too much in to these games again?.As i was thinking along the line of jensen as he was forced to become augmented but then had to decide between augmenting yourself forcefully or letting your body do it naturally.If this isnt a game play choice why am i walking around with all these damn point as i play the game as pretty much basic jensen lol
The "letting your body do it naturally" is gaining XP to earn Praxis points, while forcing it is buying those Praxis Kits from LIMB clinics.
 

Kopikatsu

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May 27, 2010
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Ouch. So much misunderstanding.

You aren't getting additional augmentations when you 'buy' them with points. Jensen has ALL of those augments already installed into his body with the exception of the hacking software. XP is just a representation of Jensen's body healing enough for more augments to switch on. David even tells you that Praxis Kits are basically just overrides that allows Jensen to activate augments before his body has healed enough on it's own to do it automatically.

Sidenote: Still is correct. Using a combat rifle on a Heavy is a waste. A single headshot from the 10mm pistol with the armor piercing mod can take them down. (And you get the AP mod the moment you get to your apartment).

I just recently finished a 'Kill everything that moves' playthrough on Deus Ex difficulty using nothing but the 10mm and some EMP grenades. Didn't even need any augs to do it.
 

Cheesus333

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Matthew94 said:
Jensen didn't buy Typhoon, you did.
And he didn't disagree with the Typhoon, Jensen did.

No hypocrisy then, I suppose.

OT: I think Jensen knows that his augmentations are absolutely critical to his success. Have you tried playing that game without upgrading once? I haven't, but given how much I actually use my augs I can tell it would be completely impossible. So if Jensen has to sacrifice his principles to get the job done, then so be it. Better than walking out on the people that rebuilt him just cause he doesn't agree with it.
 

FreakSheet

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Well, Jensen is a bit of an odd case. When you first visited the LIMB clinic, the lady said that most people would be rejecting the augs, but you were building better connections between nerve and machine, so you didn't need the drug.

As for the rifle clip to take out a heavy, I wouldn't know. I go stealthy, sneaky, with my most awesome 10mm pistol EVER (silencer, laser sight, and extra armour piercing, damage and clip size, it rocks) and tranquilizer / stun gun when I'm feeling nice. (police = stun. mercs = dead)
 

Mr. 47

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Jenson is a cyborg Keeanu Reeves, that's true, but Jenson is in a life-or-death situation, so why wouldn't he use the typhoon? It was you that chose to upgrade it as well...

@Kopikatsu: Too true with the Praxis stuff. I've been hearing complaints about the augmentation system being unrealistic, as you can get them at any time. At least some people get it!

You CAN 'not kill' bosses. I'm playing stealthily, and didn't have any lethal weapons on me. I stun gunned the first boss to death (Easiest fight ever. Stun him, and he just stands around until he snaps out of it, then you just shoot him again. Same with cus. grenades)

Maybe add spoilers to the drug thing. I assumed as much, but at my point in the story it wasn't directly stated.

I liked the icarus, but I don't think that it was worth the 2 points. I got it late in Hengsha, granted, so I hadn't had much time to use it, but I only found one area that it was absolutely needed so far.
 

Redem

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Mr. 47 said:
You CAN 'not kill' bosses. I'm playing stealthily, and didn't have any lethal weapons on me. I stun gunned the first boss to death (Easiest fight ever. Stun him, and he just stands around until he snaps out of it, then you just shoot him again. Same with cus. grenades)
.
Deus Ex must be the only game where a stunt the most useful weapon in a boss fight
 

Weaver

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You can look around while hacking. For me I have to hold middle mouse.
 

Richard Hannay

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Grabbin Keelz said:
Zhukov said:
He doesn't show much affection toward Megan Reed because she's his ex-girlfriend.
Wow, that's news to me. I thought everyone kept calling her my ex-girlfriend because she was dead and they were being pricks XD
The dialogue between Jensen and Megan on the elevator in the intro-walk pretty much stops just shy of spelling out that they're no longer together (for example, he moved out of her house before fencing in the yard for the benefit of Kubrick the dog, which he promised to do, but never followed through on because they broke up and he moved out).

As for the hacking, your analogy is a bit off; it's more like you look both ways, start crossing the street, and then stop in the middle of the road to check your email. If it takes you long enough, you'll probably get tagged.
 

GrizzlerBorno

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Well that's supposed to be the point of augmentations. You can bleat against it all you want, but when your life is on the line.....