Developer Laziness: Saint's Row the Third

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Joshimodo

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Sep 13, 2008
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I loved Saint's Row 2.

Far less thuggish than the (in my opinion) dreadful Saint's Row, and gratuitously more fun, crazy and customisable. Sure, some stuff was whittled away, but otherwise there was a massive explosion of content.


So, Saint's Row 2 had a fun singleplayer experience, one of the best co-op sandbox experiences, and a multiplayer mode. Granted, I didn't enjoy the multiplayer very much. Played it a little, but otherwise avoided it in favour of co-op shenanigans. I know that people found SR1's multiplayer better, but I never played the multiplayer on that at all, so I don't know. What I do know is that it was cut down from the previous title, but given the overall expansion of content and entertainment value in the rest of the game, that's acceptable (seeing as the multiplayer wasn't incredible anyway, apparently).

Flash forward to the announcement that Volition was cutting multiplayer entirely from SR3. No tears were shed on my behalf, or anyone I know. Some where a bit pissed at it, but still intended to get the game due to it's sheer volume of content and madness. However, with that announcement, Volition decreed the reason:
"The majority of people wanted the single-player and co-op experience, so we're focusing on blowing that out of the water,"

"We want this cohesive experience where players walk away going 'I can't believe I'm seeing this. I can't believe I'm f***ing doing this,'"
Every mission and activity in the third game can be played with a co-op partner, says Volition, with full drop-in and drop-out support.
I (and everyone else) read that as the multiplayer being axed to allow for more work on the singleplayer and co-op. Great news! That was, until I picked up SR3 and played it for 15 hours or so with a friend.



It's not a bad game. It's just not as good as SR2 - And that's not nostalgia or any other buzzword coming into play. It is less of a game.

There is SIGNIFICANTLY less customisation in the game. The Escapist's own Yahtzee hit on this. Gone are multiple layers of clothing, customisation of military vehicles (and overall vehicle customisation has been toned down a little), and character creation seems more limited too.

Additionally, the short cutscenes before a new activity are gone, not to mention some of the activities themselves. There also appears to be less vehicles and weapons, and the first 1/3rd of the game's missions are literally activity tutorials.

Considering the game itself hasn't changed much (same fairly ugly but acceptable graphics, same physics, etc.), why has this content gone? Surely the customisation and other content could be copy-pasted over and added to, rather than axed and replaced with a sub-par alternative? The point being, WHY has the content been significantly scaled down? Sure, the over-the-top factor has gone up, but it's a much shallower game without what has previously been set as a standard. What is the reasoning (or excuse) for this apparently laziness?
Every mission and activity in the third game can be played with a co-op partner, says Volition, with full drop-in and drop-out support.
Every mission and activity could be done in co-op in Saint's Row 2, and that had all the bells and whistles to go with it, AND a multiplayer. Saint's Row 3 shipped with less customisation, less content, and no multiplayer.


It's a real shame. Have any of you Escapists encountered similar feats of laziness from developers, or (retroactively) obvious lies?
 

StormShaun

The Basement has been unleashed!
Feb 1, 2009
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I feel quite the same, when I completed the game I felt like something was missing. So I remember what was different about the game and found exactly the same points as you, except that they got rid of the most fun activities and replaced them with the same old original activities which I had to do in all 3 of their games. Frankly I just preferred activities like COPS, brawl, the sceptic tank one and the Demolition derby, they were by fun the most fun side missions, but in SR3 they replaced those ones with mediocre ones that you get tired off in sometime. Them ones (Genki, tank demo and etc) + the old original ones, (Snatch, escort, mayhem and etc) made me hate to do side missions and the only good part was that I didn't have to do them to receive missions.

Also as you said, the customization was toned down quite a bit, it WAS one of my favorite parts of the games but then they changed it, here was some samples I could do in SR2. I could make a man have breasts and be fat at the same time, I could customize almost every vehicle in the game, I could wear multiple layers of clothing (Make my own damn suit) and look unique, and I could make most of my hideouts (which you could buy, instead of owning by mission) look pimp. I say where the hell have most of these things gone!

I will stop ranting right there, I would have quite a load to say if I did, instead here is a list of my complaints.

Improvement List to do in Saints Row 4.

- get rid of boring side missions and have more fun side missions.
- Have small cut scenes for side missions.
- More detailed customization for everything. (I want to make my own logos and clothing...and brawl style, where the hell did changing the brawl style go?)
- More weapons. (They had at least triple the amount in SR2)
- Don't have to pay for co-op or stupid little DLC packs.
- Better graphics please. (just a bit, don't make it a main point)
- Different city. (I barely explore the city to find collectables)
- Characters that you feel more connected to. (SR2 makes a damn good example)
- A bit more serious story (SR2 seriousness, because I don't even feel like I'm in or running a gang anymore)
- More missions and less tutorials!
- Make pedestrians look a bit more unique.
- More SHOPS!
- More clothes. (With more customization)
- Make the story decisions a bit more...well, effective. (The decisions felt a bit wrong to me)
- Don't screw me at the very start. (Such as losing a main character at the very start)

I hope you guys like my opinion...if not I will go SR2 on yo face.
Haha...I kid. xD
 

Joshimodo

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Sep 13, 2008
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Exactly! It's bizarre. Even from a standpoint of lazy developers, they didn't copy-paste half of the stuff, which would have made SR3 better than it is. That's never a good sign.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

I never asked for this
Sep 8, 2011
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They're not just lazy, they are greedy. Their entire strategy for SR3 was making more money off of DLC, that they implemented on the actual disc!
 

Onyx Oblivion

Borderlands Addict. Again.
Sep 9, 2008
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I sold it after 30 hours. Which is saying something, as I played SR2 for 300+ hours.

There was less shit to do, the soundtrack was inferior,the customization more limited, and the DLC plan was ATROCIOUS. Sure, the shooting and driving were better, but it's still my least favorite Saint's Row game.

Volition worked for 3 years on this? Yeah, right. This had LESS CONTENT, and even less replay value with no mission select.

It also somehow managed to become so over-the-top that it annoyed me.
 

Gmans uncle

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Oct 17, 2011
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I'm afraid your right.
Just for fun though, lets try and think up something that SRtT did better than SR2...
hmmm... hmmmmm.... OH!... oh no... hmmm... OH! OH! I'VE GOT IT!
The box art is a whole lot better!
So yeah, you want a slightly prettier box on your shelf, go get SRtT!
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Joshimodo said:
Additionally, the short cutscenes before a new activity are gone, not to mention some of the activities themselves.
Most of the activities, MAYBE all, have in-game reasons for working. The lack of a cutscene only really hurts if you're playing with the sound off, at which point you might as well complain the game doesn't have any story.

Sorry, I agree for the most part, but I'm really tired of people complaining because you still get the same level of attention and story.

That is, in the few areas that remain.

Anyway, laziness? I don't think so. I think this is a content gate. They want to sell you new stuff. Anyone who wants to sound off really should vioce their opinion via THQ's feedback service. It may not do anything, but at least I've told them why I'm not buying future titles (assuming they keep this crap up).

I also don't mind no multiplayer. I was just expecting a better co-op experience in exchange. A total shame.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Edit: Odd, I got taken to a "Captcha Error" screen and told to enter a new Captcha. Then it turns out it already posted.
 

hazabaza1

Want Skyrim. Want. Do want.
Nov 26, 2008
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Personally, I think it's fucking fantastic.
It is a shame that some of the customisation is gone, and that the little cutscenes are missing, but most everything that I care about has been improved since SR2, so yeah, I think I'm preferring SR3.
 

Stormz

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This is pretty much where the industry is going. Less content so they can get you to buy DLC. I probably won't be getting Saints 4 (Which has already been announced for fucks sake) I'll stick with Saints 2. Before they were greedy sellouts.
 

JoesshittyOs

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Aug 10, 2011
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Wow. Wasn't aware how much people didn't like this game.

In all honesty, I never bought in to the whole craze. I blasphemously thought that GTA 4 was a better game, because it felt so much smoother. I understand why people like crazy and out of control, but I found GTA 4 much more enjoyable because you didn't feel like a tank and when you punched people, they didn't go flying, and it didn't feel like it was trying so damn hard to get you to like the game... if that makes any sense. Which it doesn't.

I guess what I'm loosely trying to say is that I really did prefer the slow paced anticipation over the "in your face" whackey gamestyle that Saints Row conveyed.
 

Something Amyss

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Stormz said:
This is pretty much where the industry is going. Less content so they can get you to buy DLC. I probably won't be getting Saints 4 (Which has already been announced for fucks sake) I'll stick with Saints 2. Before they were greedy sellouts.
Not only was it announced already, but it was announced, effectively, BEFORE SRTT was released.

Graham from LRR did a joke about it on Checkpoint over at PATV.
 

FFHAuthor

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Aug 1, 2010
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It was disappointing, yet strangely it was a game made up of fun moments, and yet they weren't linked into a fun game. The game just felt like the development team got Jager, cocaine and a blank check and were told 'Do whatever you want'. The result was a lot of golden moments of awesome, hilarious setups and rather incredible things you could do and experience...but that was all. It wasn't a game so much as really good one liners.

I like one liners...I just prefer to find them in a decent movie.
 

Inquisitor Slayde

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Jan 17, 2009
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Saints Row 3 may be the biggest gaming disappointment I have ever had.

SR2 is one of my favourite games of all time. The game play was fun, the writing was good, the characters were fun and engaging and the level of customization was nearly unmatched. Just messing around in the sandbox was a good time.

I was super excited for SR3. That lasted about 30 mins after starting up the game and my interest never really recovered. It wasn't a bad game. I still enjoyed it, however it was nothing but disappointment at every turn.

They turned the characters into dull, flat standees of their former selves or killed them off. That one near the start was inexcusable. I really thought it was a fake out it was so inconceivable they would actually do that.

There was less of everything. Fewer side missions, less context, much less customisation. The quality of the writing was noticeably worse.

I could go on but I think my point is made. Saints Row 2 is better than Saints Row 3 in every regard, with the exception of a small improvement in SR3's graphics. SR2 had soul, I connected with it. SR3 felt empty, like mindless, souless hedonism.

I really hope they realise their mistakes before Saints Row 4 gets ruined too.
 

Hazy992

Why does this place still exist
Aug 1, 2010
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There's a bunch of issues in this game that are starting to piss me off. I'm gonna vent them here :p

1. The bridges. The goddamn fucking bridges. I wish there was a way to get them lowered. I'm sick of having to jump them everytime, especially as you end up flipping the car half the time cause you hit something. Bikes almost always just slam straight into it and get stuck, and it's made the vehicle thefts harder than it needs to be.

2. Speaking of the vehicle thefts, this is just a pain in the ass. I actually drove to where I needed to find a vehicle in the vehicle I was supposed to find and it didn't register I was in it. I had to drive around for another five minutes looking for it.

3. Your wanted level goes up too quickly and the police and gangs are over zealous and at times it feels like they're almost omnipotent

4. The pop-in especially on the Xbox is bad. And I mean bad

5. The DLC is a joke and is already on the goddamn disc.

6. All of the activities are the crap ones and there's not enough of them. No demo derby? No fight club? Instead we get escort and snatch :mad:

7. You can't replay missions, and they use activites as missions.

8. Not enough weapons

9. And last but not least;
I still can't believe they killed Johnny Gat!!!


Phew! Rant over!
 

Stormz

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Stormz said:
This is pretty much where the industry is going. Less content so they can get you to buy DLC. I probably won't be getting Saints 4 (Which has already been announced for fucks sake) I'll stick with Saints 2. Before they were greedy sellouts.
Not only was it announced already, but it was announced, effectively, BEFORE SRTT was released.

Graham from LRR did a joke about it on Checkpoint over at PATV.
Wow I didn't know that. Now that just makes it even worse.
 

KeyMaster45

Gone Gonzo
Jun 16, 2008
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I downloaded the character creator when it became available on Steam and was dismayed at how limited the customization options for my character were. I initially shrugged off the limitations as being part of a demo and that the game would have more, but once it hit shelves and reports started coming in that the customization was indeed just as limited as I thought it was I opted not to buy it.

Hell half the fun of SR2 for me was dressing my character to match his progress through the game. (street clothes hastily bought at the beginning to a Saints color coded business suit in the final mission) I never played SR1 so the story in 2 didn't make much sense to me beyond the idea that I was working my way back up the criminal ladder.

I haven't played SR3 so I won't bring gameplay mechanics into this, but suffice it be said the more limited customization was a deal breaker in my book. I don't see myself purchasing SR3 anytime in the future. It seems the SR franchise will be one that had a surprise hit and then proceeded to become crap each time they tried to replicate it.

JoesshittyOs said:
I guess what I'm loosely trying to say is that I really did prefer the slow paced anticipation over the "in your face" whackey gamestyle that Saints Row conveyed.
It's funny really. People talk about how SR2 was so over the top and everything but when I played it I just found it had the same manic charm that GTA 3 and Vice City had. SR3 on the other hand really did give off that feeling of "Holy crap look how wacky and out of our gourds we are!".
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Hazy992 said:
1. The bridges. The goddamn fucking bridges. I wish there was a way to get them lowered. I'm sick of having to jump them everytime, especially as you end up flipping the car half the time cause you hit something. Bikes almost always just slam straight into it and get stuck, and it's made the vehicle thefts harder than it needs to be.
You know, especially since you
Own the city one way or another, you think you'd be able to lower them

Also, love that several vehicles do just lodge in the bridges.

2. Speaking of the vehicle thefts, this is just a pain in the ass. I actually drove to where I needed to find a vehicle in the vehicle I was supposed to find and it didn't register I was in it. I had to drive around for another five minutes looking for it.
Yeah, I hate the fact I can't cheat the system, too. Well, can't cheat the system without one more, very minor step that is dumb.
 

FFHAuthor

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Inquisitor Slayde said:
They turned the characters into dull, flat standees of their former selves or killed them off. That one near the start was inexcusable. I really thought it was a fake out it was so inconceivable they would actually do that.
I spent the ENTIRE game thinking, "No, they didn't, they couldn't...seriously? No...it's just a trick...". I thought there was going to be some triumphant return, or the character was brainwashed into a baddie I had to fight, or there was going to be an f'ing clone.

Nope, nothing. My favorite, hell, MOST fan's favorite character, and they whack 'em. Inexcusable.