Developing a Strategic Role Playing Game and after some input.

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Zeluron89

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Aug 26, 2014
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Hey, I?m working on an indie game as the artist/designer. It is being made in Unity and the engine/systems are coming along nicely. Whilst I have my own ideas about what I'd personally want from a game of this type, I?d be grateful to get some opinions from the gaming community at large. I understand that this sort of game isn't going to appeal to everyone and if you are put off by the idea of an RTS/RPG then it's probably best you ignore this thread.

Inspiration took from the standard set of RTS/RPG titles. Games like Neverwinter Nights, Baldur?s Gate, Faery Tale Adventure, Warcraft III, Icewind Dale and Diablos, torchlight, ectect.

It?s a 3D, Isometric, Strategic, Role Playing Game.

The game works like an RTS whereby you have a party of adventurers to control. The setting is medieval fantasy with magic and monsters!

On with the questions! Though you don?t have to respond as if it?s a questionnaire, any valid input would be welcome. I could ask people I know but they would probably be less forward about their opinions. ;)

Graphics: Do you prefer colorful and cartoon like, something akin to Torchlight, Faery Tale Adventure II or to a lesser extent, Diablo III? Or dark and gritty like Baldur?s Gate or the original Diablo?

Classes: Do you prefer fewer classes with more skills (8 skills) or more classes with fewer skills (4 skills)? Remember, as you?re controlling a party of characters they may not all require as many skills. Also once there are enough classes for it to work, I am considering having multiclassing available.

Party Size: Do you prefer a smaller party (4 members) or larger parties (6 members)?

Characters: Do you prefer to only make your main character and then find other characters, akin to Baldurs Gate? Or do you prefer to make your entire party like Icewind Dale?

Inventory Management: Do you prefer Tetris inventory management where a greatsword would take up 8 slots like in Neverwinter Nights or would you prefer all equipment to take up 2 or 1 slots like in Diablo III?

Dialogue Amounts: Do you like long sections of descriptive dialogue like in Avadon or shorter, to the point dialogue like in Syrim?

Gameplay: Do you prefer the more hack and slash style of gameplay of Diablo or the slower Baldurs Gate style of gameplay?

World Style: Do you prefer zoned areas (Kotor, Neverwinter Nights) or a seamless world (Skyrim)? Seamless is trickier to do so if you prefer seamless, indicate just how annoying you find zoned areas.

Story: Do you prefer a linear progression story such as Kotor or the more open freedom of Skyrim?

Trainers: Do you prefer selecting new abilities at level up or seeking out trainers in the world?

Setting: Do you prefer pure fantasy or elements of steampunk and gunpowder. Do you prefer a wacky, unserious setting like Diskworld or a more serious, gritty setting?

Hardcore Elements: Do you like the idea of having to ensure that the party has to eat, sleep and rest in order to keep strong and alert in this sort of game? Do you prefer having friendly fire on or off?

Cheers in advance! :)
 

WhiteFangofWhoa

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Jan 11, 2008
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Graphics: Colourful. Isometric gives a good view of the character models, and you want some variety in them.

Classes: As many relevant skills as you can think of for classes. If you can change classes easily or have a reserve of characters to swap in, you could get away with having just 4 skills per class.

Party Size: Again, larger unless you can bring a reserve with you.

Characters: Create-your-own team leader, recruit the rest from towns and dungeons as you see fit.

Inventory Management: Diablo III style. I find Tetris-style management tends to give you one storage bag the roughly size of the screen, leading to appallingly small inventory space.

Dialogue Amounts: If the dialogue can be ignored or skipped over, then extremely descriptive.

Gameplay: Diablo.

World Style: Zoned, since this is your first try. I don't mind either one.

Story: Kotor.

Trainers: New abilities at level up. One less unneeded step. The only time I'd include a trainer is if the abilities are complex enough to require some instruction on their proper use.

Setting: Steampunk fantasy with a mix of grit and humour.

Hardcore Elements: No eating or sleeping please, we can assume the party does that when you're not playing (unless food is also recovery items). Friendly fire is okay. Strategic, fairly simple to prevent in an isometric game, and frequently hilarious.
 

Maximum Bert

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Feb 3, 2013
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Graphics: not to fussed but I suppose I prefer the darker grittier ones from this perspective and type of game.

Classes: probably fewer with more skills but as long as it works well and the skills are well thought out I dont care.

Party Size: again not to bothered as long as they are all well realised traditionally the fewer the character the better I find they are as they have had more care put into them but this is just a very broad generalisation.

Characters: I actually prefer playing characters that are already crafted and have a story and personality of their own in these games so it feels like I am controlling something that is not just a throwaway creation a nonentity as it were that said if I do create a character I usually prefer to create all my characters then and there.

Inventory: hate inventory tetris so almost anything is preferable.

Dialogue: dont care as long as it fits the game if its more story based I would expect longer dialogue if its more focused on gameplay then shorter dialogue as a rough rule anyway.

Gameplay: Again I really dont mind as long as its fun and actually works. AI controlled teammates can make or break it here for a lot of games make sure they do what you tell them do do without having to babysit them every step unless you have a very good reason not to do so. Friendly fire wouldnt bother me as long as the battle system takes it into account and allows you to account for it i.e if I send two people into attack I dont want their swinging animation to be so that its impossible for me to not get hit from each one when fighting one enemy, also need to think about how it would impact on the power level of classes i.e if there friendly fire from archers would they be deemed useless in a mixed group or weak and if its off then would that promote mixed groups but make them to strong?

Good luck in designing the game anyway in the end just do what you thinks best for it.

World Style: open but dont hate zones as long as loading isnt atrocious or if it is long there is a fair gap between the next loading screen.

Story: Up for what game you are going for I suppose I tend to appreciate a well crafted story which is invariably linear but I wouldnt appreciate this in a game such as Skyrim for instance as I think it would weaken whats so fun about the game mainly the discovery and making your own instances of story. From your description of the game though I would probably prefer a linear story more as I would need to feel progression and impact from my actions as well as what its building to.

Abilities: level up not a fan of seeking trainers but again like most things if its done well I will have no complaints.

Setting: not bothered as long as its cohesive with the rest of what you have created. Taking nothing else into account I tend to prefer dream type settings such as Planescape for instance.

Hardcore elements: Like any elements if you think it adds something to the game im all for it but if it detracts from it and is only there to make the game harder in some way im not a fan. Dont mind difficulty but I dont like tedium and yes it can be hard to discern the difference sometime.
 

shrekfan246

Not actually a Japanese pop star
May 26, 2011
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I'll apologize for how conditional all of my answers are going to be, I don't know how helpful that'll necessarily be for you. :p

Zeluron89 said:
Graphics: Do you prefer colorful and cartoon like, something akin to Torchlight, Faery Tale Adventure II or to a lesser extent, Diablo III? Or dark and gritty like Baldur?s Gate or the original Diablo?
I prefer the art style of Diablo III, but I feel I should expand upon that further to also state that I like how it's something of a middle ground between Torchlight and Diablo II. In general, I lean towards enjoying the atmosphere and mood of games like Grim Dawn or Path of Exile more than Torchlight II, but Diablo III's grim-colorful-realistic is particularly pulling for me.

Classes: Do you prefer fewer classes with more skills (8 skills) or more classes with fewer skills (4 skills)? Remember, as you?re controlling a party of characters they may not all require as many skills. Also once there are enough classes for it to work, I am considering having multiclassing available.
As someone who finds D&D's class system both interesting and arcane, I'd have to say I probably prefer less classes. There's a lot of potential for overlap and it all can be a little too overwhelming for a newcomer who doesn't know which class does what or what they're best specialized for. But then, a lot of that can also be assuaged by how well you explain their mechanics.

Party Size: Do you prefer a smaller party (4 members) or larger parties (6 members)?
I think this would directly tie in to the classes question. If you have few classes, I think a smaller party would be better, as it's easier to assemble an "optimal" team. But with many classes, or classes that can specialize in multiple ways such as tanking warriors and two-handed damage warriors, it can be limiting to only have 3 extra party slots.

Characters: Do you prefer to only make your main character and then find other characters, akin to Baldurs Gate? Or do you prefer to make your entire party like Icewind Dale?
That would largely depend on the narrative. If the game encourages in-party roleplaying (such as the recent Divinity: Original Sin) then sure, I can dig creating my own party characters. But if I'm only really making choices for a single character or for the party as a whole, then I spend far too much time making one main character as it is.

Inventory Management: Do you prefer Tetris inventory management where a greatsword would take up 8 slots like in Neverwinter Nights or would you prefer all equipment to take up 2 or 1 slots like in Diablo III?
It depends on the inventory size and how certain items stack (or don't, as the case may be). I found inventory-Tetris in Diablo II to be pretty amusing, but I was endlessly frustrated by how much space scrolls and potions took up, and the fact that items couldn't be rotated to the side.

Dialogue Amounts: Do you like long sections of descriptive dialogue like in Avadon or shorter, to the point dialogue like in Syrim?
Well, now there's a loaded question.

That would largely depend on the quality of said writing, exactly how long it goes on for, and how quickly I can skip through it if I'm reading faster than it's scrolling/being narrated/whatever.

Descriptions of things I can see = Not stuff I really need to read. Lore descriptions of monsters, areas in the world, dungeons, towns, cities, etc. that aren't dumped on me for mandatory reading = Pretty cool world-building.

EDIT: That's mostly in reference to direct exposition, I suppose, so as far as actual character dialogue is concerned, it simply falls entirely on how good the writing is. If I enjoy a character, I don't mind how wordy they are. Unfortunately, there isn't really any easy answer to give for how to make me enjoy a character.

Gameplay: Do you prefer the more hack and slash style of gameplay of Diablo or the slower Baldurs Gate style of gameplay?
Neither?

More specifically, I like the hack&slash combat of Diablo III in particular but don't really enjoy Torchlight, Diablo II, Titan Quest, and so on. The difference for me is how actively I'm participating. In Diablo III, the main attack most characters have isn't just a melee swing, it's another ability entirely which has its own unique effects and uses. And then there are five other abilities I can play around with at any time. Torchlight II has a nice amount of variety in the number of abilities you can use at once, but eventually it still always came down to spamming melee/ranged attacks which just aren't interesting or fun to me. The one other isometric ARPG I've found to be an exception to this is Divine Divinity, and the difference in that one is that you only have to click to attack an enemy once and then the game automates the rest until the enemy is dead. If all you're doing is auto-attacks, then I prefer it to actually occur automatically.

As far as D&D-style combat is concerned, I've found that the pacing of real-time-with-pause combat just doesn't sit well with me. I can enjoy things like Knights of the Old Republic or Dragon Age: Origins because they're slow enough for me to be able to follow everything that's happening without needing to rely on the pause mechanic. In Infinity Engine D&D games, the combat flow is just completely beyond me and it becomes tediously frustrating for me to try managing. So here I'll point back to Divinity: Original Sin as an example of what I do like: Turn-based combat. While that in itself is arguably a pace-breaker, for me it gives me the sense of control over the combat situation that I like to have while I'm playing a game.

World Style: Do you prefer zoned areas (Kotor, Neverwinter Nights) or a seamless world (Skyrim)? Seamless is trickier to do so if you prefer seamless, indicate just how annoying you find zoned areas.
I wouldn't say I have a preference for that design. The biggest part of world design for me is the specific areas that I'm being expected to travel through. If they're nothing more than linear successions of corridors with no room for exploration or secrets or hidden things, then it doesn't really make a difference to me if the world is interconnected or not.

Story: Do you prefer a linear progression story such as Kotor or the more open freedom of Skyrim?
Definitely prefer structured linear narratives. The problem I tend to have with open-world games is that the urgency of the plot is lessened somewhat by the fact that the player is often free to do whatever they want in between quests. Time limits are arguably a good way to counter that, but most people get frustrated when a game has a timer because they see it as the game arbitrarily limiting the time they can spend faffing about... it's something of a no-win scenario.

I like extra dungeons and areas being littered throughout the locations I was already exploring in the first place.

What I will say in favor of open-world design, however, is that I like the way MMOs tend to do it, whereby they can direct the player through narrative content by how difficult each location is in relevance to their level. Skyrim flubs it because there's no real clear distinction between how hard or easy areas are until you're getting smacked off of a cliff face, but you can still get a sense of area progression from something like Kingdoms of Amalur.

Trainers: Do you prefer selecting new abilities at level up or seeking out trainers in the world?
I've never really thought about that in reference to single-player games, to be honest. But, eh, it's far more convenient to be able to get new powers right at level-up. I suppose it would depend on the conceit of your game's world and narrative, again. If it makes sense in-world that mages wouldn't be able to learn new spells without being taught them first, then go for it, but it would have to be a pretty good explanation to counteract "gamification".

Setting: Do you prefer pure fantasy or elements of steampunk and gunpowder. Do you prefer a wacky, unserious setting like Diskworld or a more serious, gritty setting?
Here's something of a difficult one, also because it can somewhat depend on the quality of the writing. I will say that there aren't really any settings which will immediately make me lose interest, gritty or not.

But right now, I'll say that the settings I'm most interested in are cyberpunk and urban fantasy, the former of which has become somewhat popular in video games again over the past few years, while the latter is still largely only covered by The Secret World.

Hardcore Elements: Do you like the idea of having to ensure that the party has to eat, sleep and rest in order to keep strong and alert in this sort of game? Do you prefer having friendly fire on or off?
Personally, I'm not one for taking on the hardest of hard challenges in games, especially RPGs where a lot of the time things can be completely ruined just by sheer bad luck. But I'm of the opinion that having those options is never a bad idea (unless you ignore something far more important in order to implement them).
 

Gorrath

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Feb 22, 2013
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Graphics: Hard to answer. I'd say the art direction should match up well with the setting and narrative. I'd go with the darker grittier look if the game's setting and narrative are meant to be more realistic and I'd go with cartoony if it's meant to be a high-fantasy fest. Even this answer isn't a complete one though!

Classes: This depends a lot on game mechanics. Having a bunch of classes with different skills is great, so long as none of the classes feels neutered and the player doesn't feel like there are just a few worth taking and the rest are novelties. This question is directly linked to party size because the number of classes and what they can do is going to depend heavily on how many the player can have.

Party Size: As above, this is very dependent on the game mechanics. Having fewer members might be better though due to the game being an RTS. You don't want the whole thing to turn into a click-fest where the player has to micro-manage so much they don't really enjoy what they are doing. A smaller party (Say, 3-4) means that you may need to make fewer classes. It is easier to gimp a party with just a few slots if you have a ton of classes, some of which are just plain better than others. If all your classes are well balanced though, you can get away with small party, lots of classes dynamic.

Characters: I always prefer to make my core party and maybe have NPCs at different parts tag along.

Inventory Management - Tetris management has its benefits, but can also be a time waster. Games that rely on weight are even more annoying though as players end up doing math to figure out value/weight ratio. I'm not familiar with Diablo 3's system. I'd probably go all tetris with it.

Dialogue: Long or short, just make it not suck! I'd suggest avoiding long dialogue boxes with little player input in any case. We're here to play a game, not read someone's fantasy novel. Terse, well written dialogue beats mountains of boring text.

Gameplay: I tend to like more measured and tactical play over click-fest stuff.

World Style: Go zones. Seriously, it's just so much easier to do and having things "Open world" is a bit needless in this type of game.

Story: Open and free, Fallout style.

Trainers: No need imo. Trainers are a waste of time unless you give them a good reason to exist, like driving part of the narrative. Just making the player backtrack to town for level up is pointless busywork.

Setting: No preference, just marry your elements together well. If it were me making design descisions, I'd go with a less used setting ala far future sci fi or more realistic, low magic fantasy. We get tons of colorful fantasy settings and near future post-apoc stuff. I don't care if it's dark and gritty or humorous and fun, just so long as the setting meshes with your visual style.

Hardcore Elements: If at all possible, make these optional. I like having to care for my characters but a lot of people find this mind-numbing busy work. If you can make it so you have a choice as to whether or not it's included in a playthrough, go with that. If it's either in or out, leave it out. There's a much higher chance it'll be boring and dull rather than fun, so error on the side of not having it rather than having no choice.

I've designed a lot of table-top type games so I have more than a little experience at this. I'd be happy to answer more questions or go into more depth if you like.
 

ryazoph

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Aug 5, 2014
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I'm going to comment on typical issues with game designers: focus on a few simple choices, but make it so that how you use those choices affect the game. Game designers like making things too complex and micromanaging. Take Hearts of Iron, very simple industrial system. But one could play many times, taking slightly different choices each time.
 

Smooth Operator

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Oct 5, 2010
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Since this is probably the first project of this type for your group put function before quantity, RPGs can have an endless pool of features so it is vital that you nail down only those that matter and can be done in time.

Graphics - I would first put down the story in at least a draft and then swing it from there, but cartoon like stuff can get away with more inaccuracy.

Classes - For the sake of finishing it do less classes with moderate number of skills that have high impact(don't do the MMO shit with endless 10% buffs).

Party Size - Have it optional up to 6.

Characters - Probably best to stick with creating one character at the start, possibly have a later game feature where you hire help with specific skills.

Inventory management - I would want inventory tetris, but this is something 95% of people wouldn't want so go with the flat one slot system. And in any case if your game manages to have a grid drag&drop system along side a character portrait with item slots that will put it high above most things called RPG at the moment.

Dialogue - I would leave this to the writer, as long as you can skip through it people shouldn't be overly bothered how it turns out.

Gameplay - This is probably the most problematic one. Personally I would love another real time with pause RTS controlled RPG, but again this will only be the same for 5% of the audience. The majority will want a game that half plays itself or at most they do some button mashing, then they will complain that it's dull and repetitive.
If you could somehow magically swing it both ways that would be great, but I have no idea how to get that done so ultimately you guys need to decide how your game should play.

World style - Ideally you could have a seamless world with zones, i.e. areas of concentrated content spaced over a gigantic map. But your team is small and new so just do the zones as best you can.

Story progression - Ideally multiple story lines sprinkled all over the place, but as long as you are clear on what you sell the KOTOR point to point approach will work also (and that is the easier one).

Trainers - I would make it optional in difficulty settings, trainers do make the world a meatier place but again most people want everything immediately.

Setting - Would probably be completely dependent on the story, so do with that as it fits.

Hardcore elements - Pretty much all stuff for optional difficulty settings. Because there is a lot of stuff people will find tedious, I find friendly fire makes things exciting but once you get down to eating and all that I can't be bothered.

Ultimately however the game will turn out best if you only go along with your own vision, trying to put in opinions of your entire audience will leave the concept horribly confused. Sadly marginalizing between everyone is the best way to make money, but it is also the best way to ruin a game.
 

Ed130 The Vanguard

(Insert witty quote here)
Sep 10, 2008
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Zeluron89 said:
Hey, I?m working on an indie game as the artist/designer. It is being made in Unity and the engine/systems are coming along nicely. Whilst I have my own ideas about what I'd personally want from a game of this type, I?d be grateful to get some opinions from the gaming community at large. I understand that this sort of game isn't going to appeal to everyone and if you are put off by the idea of an RTS/RPG then it's probably best you ignore this thread.

Inspiration took from the standard set of RTS/RPG titles. Games like Neverwinter Nights, Baldur?s Gate, Faery Tale Adventure, Warcraft III, Icewind Dale and Diablos, torchlight, ectect.

It?s a 3D, Isometric, Strategic, Role Playing Game.

The game works like an RTS whereby you have a party of adventurers to control. The setting is medieval fantasy with magic and monsters!

On with the questions! Though you don?t have to respond as if it?s a questionnaire, any valid input would be welcome. I could ask people I know but they would probably be less forward about their opinions. ;)

Graphics: Do you prefer colorful and cartoon like, something akin to Torchlight, Faery Tale Adventure II or to a lesser extent, Diablo III? Or dark and gritty like Baldur?s Gate or the original Diablo?
I tend towards the darker end of the spectrum, if only because its easier for me to believe its a real world.
Classes: Do you prefer fewer classes with more skills (8 skills) or more classes with fewer skills (4 skills)? Remember, as you?re controlling a party of characters they may not all require as many skills. Also once there are enough classes for it to work, I am considering having multiclassing available.
That one really depends on what sort of classes there are and what roles they will take like Tank, DPS, nuke etc.
Party Size: Do you prefer a smaller party (4 members) or larger parties (6 members)?
I think 6 would be the maximun for an RTS style RPG, any more and you'll loose track in the melee.
Characters: Do you prefer to only make your main character and then find other characters, akin to Baldurs Gate? Or do you prefer to make your entire party like Icewind Dale?
Either or, I haven''t really played much of the second type but wouldn't be adverse to.
Inventory Management: Do you prefer Tetris inventory management where a greatsword would take up 8 slots like in Neverwinter Nights or would you prefer all equipment to take up 2 or 1 slots like in Diablo III?
I despise the D3 inventory style, in part due to how everything looked the same unless you paid a second look. A simplified Tetris style, so no rotating crap is good. Having a weight or even better a mule to sell items back at the town ala the Torchlight 2 pet system would be even better.
Dialogue Amounts: Do you like long sections of descriptive dialogue like in Avadon or shorter, to the point dialogue like in Syrim?
If skippable then descriptive. Unskippable intros really sap the will to play another toon.
Gameplay: Do you prefer the more hack and slash style of gameplay of Diablo or the slower Baldurs Gate style of gameplay?
In the case of a RTS a slower stlye would be more appropiate wouldn't it?
World Style: Do you prefer zoned areas (Kotor, Neverwinter Nights) or a seamless world (Skyrim)? Seamless is trickier to do so if you prefer seamless, indicate just how annoying you find zoned areas.
I wouldn't mind seemless, but that style is very ambitious. Go with zones but try to make the loading screens quick as not everyone has a SSD.
Story: Do you prefer a linear progression story such as Kotor or the more open freedom of Skyrim?
It depends on what I'm playing, Skyrim is like a sandbox for me, sure there is a storyline but that is secondary to dicking around. I play the likes of KOTOR to enjoy the story told and the characters in it.
Trainers: Do you prefer selecting new abilities at level up or seeking out trainers in the world?
I wouldn't mind trainers but only for advanced movesets and additional ablities or as quest rewards.
Setting: Do you prefer pure fantasy or elements of steampunk and gunpowder. Do you prefer a wacky, unserious setting like Diskworld or a more serious, gritty setting?
Gotta go with insert term herePunk, high fantasy is relativily static, while the 'punk' can add some much needed variety to the formula.
Hardcore Elements: Do you like the idea of having to ensure that the party has to eat, sleep and rest in order to keep strong and alert in this sort of game? Do you prefer having friendly fire on or off?
I would like to be able to scale it, having an easy mode where you can drop nukes in the middle of the party to kill off rats nipping at everyone heels to hardcore where there is permadeath.
Cheers in advance! :)
No prob.