Dividing by zero, the truth (this is long!)

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careful

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This is going to be a long post, but if you want the truth behind the divisibility by zero confusion, this thread should illuminate for you exactly the apparent problem. The question as it stands is
"Can any real number be divided by zero and if so what is the result of that operation?"
I will answer this question. And no, infinity is nowhere to be found here. You don't need to know calculus but your going to need a brain to get through this if you have never seen it before, but this stuff is way to beautiful to be dumbed down to accommodate the lazy. First allow me to present my credentials; I'm an honors mathematics graduate working as a programmer. I have a large bookshelf populated with math and science books ranging from differential topology to computational linguistics (although ive only read maybe 1/4 of them). The reason I'm making this post is because I like math, and I like talking about it. Also I'm really bored and in the midst of procrastinating. The definitions and theorems presented here are taken from this book: A Computational Introduction to Number Theory and Algebra [http://www.amazon.com/Computational-Introduction-Number-Theory-Algebra/dp/0521516447/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1328490906&sr=8-1]. I'm no authority on math, but the divide by zero thing is really simple to understand and I like to share ideas. For some this might be difficult to follow, I'm not going to go easy, but I promise that everything you need to understand is here and no prerequisites are needed beyond an open mind. First some preliminary definitions (more or less motivated by intuition) that we need to commit to in order to have a subject matter. As a reminder, I need to casually point out that the number your dividing is called the dividend and the the number your dividing by is called the divisor. So in 2/3, 2 is the dividend and 3 is the divisor. The first thing we need to do, is to define a ring. Later we will show that the set of real numbers is a ring, and so any properties of abstract rings are automatically properties of the set of real numbers:
If you don't want to read all the definitions and the few theorems, just read theorem 2 and the conclusion, that should give you enough

  • [li]A set is a collection of objects hereby denoted as {a,b,c,...} where a,b,c,... are the elements that belong to the set. Sets can be empty, have a finite number of elements, or an infinite number of elements. in the case of a set with an infinite number of elements, there may be countably infinitely many elements, or uncountably infinitely many elements. These definitions can be contested and elaborated, but such a discussion would only digress from the topic at hand.[/li]
    [li]An operator is a function whose input (domain) and output (range) are the same set S. A binary operator is an operator that takes two elements from the set as its input (we can define operators to take multivariate arguments in general), and outputs an element which again is an element of the set S. The following examples are familiar operators on the set of integers: multiplication and addition.[/li]
    [li]A ring R, is a set (nonempty) with two operators, which for convenience I will call 'multiplication' *, and 'addition' +, with the following properties: (we could denote addition by '%' instead, the symbol we use is arbitrary. I am only using + as the symbol for addition over rings because it is a familiar symbol to this readership)
    Properties of 'Addition' : +
    1)For any two elements x, y in R, x + y = y + x
    2)For any three elements x, y, z in R, (x + y) + z = x + (y + z)
    3)There is a unique element '0[sub]R[/sub]' in R such that for all x in R, x + 0[sub]R[/sub] = x
    This is called the (additive) zero element. We call it the zero element because this unique element behaves like the familiar zero of the real numbers. This is the element we want to know if we can use as a divisor. The definition of 'dividing' elements has yet to come though.
    4)For every x in R, there exists a unique y in R such that x + y = 0[sub]R[/sub].
    We will denote the additive inverse of x as -x. You can think of this as a 'sign change'. This is not the same as stipulating a concept of 'negative elements' or 'negative numbers', but for matters of convenience, if you want to think of -x as a 'negative x' then by all means do so.
    Properties of 'Multiplication' : *
    5)For any x,y in R, x * y = y * x
    6)For any x,y,z in R, (x * y) * z = x * (y * z)
    7)For any x,y,a in R, a * (x + y) = a * x + a * y
    8)There exists a unique element '1[sub]R[/sub]' in R such that for every x in R, 1[sub]R[/sub] * x = x * 1[sub]R[/sub]= x
    This element is called the (multiplicative) identity element.[/li]

I use the single quotes on the above operators called 'multiplication' and 'addition' over the ring R because they could be called anything else instead like 'jackkniving' or 'imballabloming'. These two operators are abstract (binary) operators, which only as a special case, when we consider our ring R to be the real numbers, come to be realized as the familiar multiplication and division that everyone learns in high school. The only thing important about our operators are the eight properties above
We're getting very close to our penultimate goal here, which is to craft a mathematical structure on the set of real numbers that will allow us to answer questions like what 'dividing by zero' means . A few very interesting and important things I want to point out here, is that a zero (element) depends on the ring in question. A different ring, a different zero (element). Later when we identify the set of real numbers as a ring, because it is a ring, we will have to designate some real number as the zero (element) and some other real number as the identity (element). In preview of that, I'll tell you now that when we take our ring to be the set of real numbers, we are going to let '0' be the zero element and '1' be the identity element.
You may have noticed so far no ideas taken from calculus. This is because we don't need a theory of the infinitesimally small (nor infinitely big) to work with the real number 0. Calculus deals with the 'closeness' of elements, allowing you to analyze limiting behaviors and rates of changes. 0 certainly plays a role in those kinds of studies, and hence helps you to better understand what 0 is and how it behaves, but those ideas have no influence on how we define 0.

So far the only operations we have to work with are multiplication and addition; to define whatever 'divisibility' might be (over rings) we have to get in a few more definitions. So we'll do that now, but not in the way you might have expected. Do you remember from high school math that to divide by a number x is the same thing as to multiply by 1/x. Well, this shows that 'dividing' is the same thing operationally as multiplication, we need not introduce a new 'divide by' operator. This subtle difference is crucial to understanding the divide by zero conundrum. Starting with R as a ring, here a few more definitions we need to form a sufficient axiomatic theory that will be our backdrop for analyzing the idea of 'dividing by zero' (and perhaps other ideas):


  • [li]For any elements x,y in R, we say that x divides y or y is divisible by x if there exists an element r in R such that x * r = y. For shorthand we'll denote this situation by y/x. Note a very interesting fact that might not jump out at you right away is that with this definition, the status of divisibility of any two elements depends on the existence of some other element in R. Also, that we are in fact not dividing y by x as it may seem. We are only saying that when we have a pair of elements (x,y) of the ring R and you can find for this pair an element r such that x * r = y, then we are going to call this state of affairs 'x divides y'.[/li]
    [li]An element x in R will be called a unit if x divides the identity element 1[sub]R[/sub], that is if there exists a unique r in R such that x * r = 1[sub]R[/sub].[/li]
    [li]For each element x, the associated element r will be called the multiplicative inverse of x and can be denoted by x[sup]-1[/sup] or by 1/x.
    Note that in reference to the above definition, I am tacitly suggesting that a multiplicative inverse exists only if 1 is divisible by x ie 1/x. For if x does not divide 1, then we could never write 1/x.[/li]
This is the last and most important definition:

  • [li]A ring R with the property that every element has a multiplicative inverse is called a field. It might seem pedantic, but for proper logical bookkeeping we need a further stipulation that fields F have more than just one single element.[/li]

So a field is just ring with a few additional properties; mainly that every element has an associated multiplicative inverse 1/x. Specifically a field is just a more specialized type of ring, but our statements will be dealing with fields and not the more general idea of rings (some of which are not fields).

You may be wondering at this point why we are not defining a 'division' operator /, so that y/x is just equal to some number r. The reason is that we want as few operators as possible defined on rings; if we defined a divide operator we would have 3 operators in total together with addition and multiplication. The goal in mathematics is to get as far as possible with as little as possible. We absolutely could have defined 3 operators over rings; multiplication, addition, and division if we wanted to, there is nothing stopping us. But this axiomatic system would be less desirable because there would be a greater number of axioms (well definitions, if you make the distinction between definition and axiom). And since we can mimic division by instead multiplying by suitably chosen numbers, we don't really need a whole new definition. So it is best to adopt the theory that just includes the two operators of multiplication and addition.

These are all the definitions that we need. Now we are ready to prove some theorems that will hopefully bring us closer to understanding 0:

Theorem1:
The set of real numbers with the usual multiplication and addition forms a field.
Proof: This is really easy to prove, just show that multiplication and addition that you learned in high school satisfy the requirements of the 'multiplication' and 'addition' operators over a ring. An element of this set is called a real number.

The concept of a field is a much more general notion then just the set of real numbers (without considering topological aspects). It is very easy to show that the real number line is a field (albeit with additional topological structure) with the familiar operations of additional and multiplication. But to make this thread interesting, I'm going to talk about the 'divisibility by zero' on general fields, of which the real numbers are just a special case.
This is all the machinery we need to address the enigmatic division by zero issue. This last theorem answers all questions of divisibility by zero which comes merely as a natural consequence of our definitions (this is how mathematics works), but it might not be the answer you were hoping for:

Theorem2:
For a given field F, any element x in this field is divisible by zero if and only if x is zero.
Proof:This proof is broken into two parts since it is an if and only if statement:
1)The if part; if an element x is divisible by 0, the assertion is that the element x is 0. Or, said in other words, if an element is divisible by zero, it must be that that number is itself 0. So suppose that zero divides x. This means that for 0 there exists an element r in F such that 0 * r = x. So in other words we have that for some element r in F, 0 * r = 0 = x. Coincidentally then, this equation also immediately implies x = 0.
2)The only if part; if x = 0 then the assertion is that x is divisible by zero ie 0 happens to be divisible by 0 according to all our definitions. So suppose x = 0. Then we need to find an element r in F such that 0 * r = x when x = 0. However, conveniently enough, any and all elements f in r satisfy this equation 0 * r = 0.

Notice above in both parts the zero element could be the element r. So we will make the informal definition that: if a pair of numbers (x,y) is such that y is divisible x, then know there exists an r such that x * r = y, and we will call this number r the result.

Conclusion: This definition of divisibility is pretty standard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divisibility but all the definitions I used (for fields, rings, 'multiplication', etc.) may vary slightly depending on what textbook you consult and who you talk to. The point however is consistency. If theorem 2 didn't do it for you, my remarks here should.
Theorem 2 asserts two propositions. The first is that the zero element, 0, is divisible by 0, and the result of that is again 0. The second assertion is that if at any time we notice that some number is divisible by zero, that number then must itself be 0. In other words only 0 is divisible by 0.

In all this discussion, I never defined what is meant by 'dividing'. I had only used multiplication and addition. Divisibility is a relationship between two numbers (not a binary operation), and any pair of numbers may or may not have this relationship. Part of what we have shown then is that the pair (0,0) has the relationship status of being divisible. So the question reformulated in the terms of this axiomatic system is:
"Does there exist a real number x such that x is divisible by 0?"
The answer is yes, and theorem 3 and its remarks should clarify everything. The one idea you should retain after all this is that it really comes down to a matter of definitions. You could rework all the above by defining a divide operator, and then just stipulating that no number can be divided by 0. That is what is meant if it is said that dividing by zero is undefined; it means literally just that. As for why people would not define division by zero, just think of what division means intuitively for non-zero numbers. When you then use the number 0, there's no intuitive meaningful interpretation for division by zero, so we either don't bother to define it, or make some other definitions like the ones above for logical bookkeeping purposes. Sorry if your disappointed, but if you want real deep mathematical truth your going to have to work for it. Please post your thoughts.
 

careful

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Addendum: Issues in calculus relating to division by zero.

In investigating the limit of, for example, sin(x)/x as x heads towards zero, you never evaluate sin(0)/0, even in computing the limiting value. This is the whole purpose of limits, since we cant evaluate at x=0, we instead evaluate at successive values of x that are very close to 0, form a sequence of sin(x)/x values and then observe its behavior. The dividing by zero issue is purely an algebraic issue, the theory of calculus has to work with the algebraic properties of 0.
 

McMullen

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careful said:
Thank you for taking the time to go through that. It was an interesting read.

What math classes would you suggest for a graphic artist who's finishing up integral calculus and wants to explore those areas of mathematics related to 3D graphics (fractals, procedural textures, 3d shapes, etc)?

How about for someone going into computer modeling of volcanic processes (much of that will be chemistry but also a lot of geometry and fluid dynamics for modeling the movement of magma through fractured rock)?

What books would you suggest? How about wikipedia articles?
 

Maze1125

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Everything you say is correct and true for the Real Numbers and more general fields.

But there are extensions of the Real Numbers which aren't fields and so the theorems that apply to fields don't work. In such sets, division by zero can work with any number, not just 0/0 (although that usually remains undefined).

Examples of such are the Affinely and Projectively Extended Real Numbers [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_real_number_line], and an example of such an extension in the Complex Numbers is the Riemann Sphere [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riemann_sphere].

As an aside, you may note that the Projectively Extended Real Numbers are a subset of the Riemann Sphere.
 

Vegosiux

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Maze1125 said:
Everything you say is correct and true for the Real Numbers and more general fields.

But there are extensions of the Real Numbers which aren't fields and so the theorems that apply to fields don't work. In such sets, division by zero can work with any number, not just 0/0 (although that usually remains undefined).

Examples of such are the Affinely and Projectively Extended Real Numbers [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_real_number_line], and an example of such an extension in the Complex Numbers is the Riemann Sphere [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riemann_sphere].

As an aside, you may note that the Projectively Extended Real Numbers are a subset of the Riemann Sphere.
True, but I assume the OP was trying to point out that the whole "divide by zero makes universe explode" meme family is silly...which I agree with and I really wish people would stop doing it just to go "IN YOUR FACE, MATH!"
 

mateushac

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Did I get it right?
All that was to prove only 0 is divisible by 0?
That's why I went with human sciences!
 

Auron225

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So 0 can divide 0? And the answer is 0? But, as far as we know so far, no other number divides 0.

Im in my first year at uni doing maths and the division by 0 problem has interested me recently. Very interesting! Thanks for posting this! =)
 

Maze1125

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Auron225 said:
So 0 can divide 0? And the answer is 0? But, as far as we know so far, no other number divides 0.
Not quite.
In fields 0 can divide 0, but only 0 and the answer is undefined.
Or, in other words, if you have x/0 = y then, for x =/= 0, y is not in the field and, for x = 0, y is undefined.

But, again, that's only true for fields.
 

Auron225

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Maze1125 said:
Auron225 said:
So 0 can divide 0? And the answer is 0? But, as far as we know so far, no other number divides 0.
Not quite.
In fields 0 can divide 0, but only 0 and the answer is undefined.
Or, in other words, if you have x/0 = y then, for x =/= 0, y is not in the field and, for x = 0, y is undefined.

But, again, that's only true for fields.
Ah, I see. Thanks!
 

Tanakh

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Nice work, some details:

careful said:
I will answer this question. And no, infinity is nowhere to be found here.
That is precisely because you didn't chose the calculus way of dealing with this. You could have said that for function, lets say 1/|x| you can have it well-defined at all points if you work in reals U {infinity}.

careful said:
Why not just use integral domains, isn't that enough?

careful said:
I think you are using this definitionhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divisor_(ring_theory), as your link requires r to be an integer.

careful said:
Theorem 2 asserts two propositions. The first is that the zero element, 0, is divisible by 0, and the result of that is again 0.
Wait, what? In all your proof you never used or showed that r=0. In fact you can easily see that r can be any element of F. I always thought that's why this as a whole is undefined, because you have this super nice operator from RxR to R that does some amazingly pimp shit everywhere EXCEPT when you put 0 as the divisor, then it's either nonsensical if the dividend is diferent from zero or is not even a function (ie undefined) if the dividend is zero. You should REALLY correct this because it's your TL;DR... and it's wrong.
 

DiMono

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careful said:
Theorem 2 asserts two propositions. The first is that the zero element, 0, is divisible by 0, and the result of that is again 0.
careful said:
Then we need to find an element r in F such that 0 * r = x when x = 0. However, conveniently enough, any and all elements f in r satisfy this equation 0 * r = 0.
So, in the quick summary you say r must = 0, but in the full explanation you say r can be any number found in the field. I think you missed something.
 

RJ 17

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:p I still like my "proof" that 0.999_ actually = 1, but still an interesting read.

That said, I've got a quick question: does a set of all sets contain itself?

And apparently my Captcha doesn't like me..."urapos". U R A POS. Well now that's just mean...
 

Vegosiux

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RJ 17 said:
That said, I've got a quick question: does a set of all sets contain itself?
Yes, of course it does, that's trivial.

I think you meant "Does the set of all sets that do not contain themselves, contain itself?". Now THAT is Russell's paradox.
 

nepheleim

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Forgive my apparent ignorance but wouldn't common sense just tell us that you cannot have a number of things (let's say three apples) and divide them into zero groups? Isn't that all division is?
 

Maze1125

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DiMono said:
careful said:
Theorem 2 asserts two propositions. The first is that the zero element, 0, is divisible by 0, and the result of that is again 0.
careful said:
Then we need to find an element r in F such that 0 * r = x when x = 0. However, conveniently enough, any and all elements f in r satisfy this equation 0 * r = 0.
So, in the quick summary you say r must = 0, but in the full explanation you say r can be any number found in the field. I think you missed something.
Check the post above yours, his quick summary is actually inaccurate, the full proof is correct though.

Vegosiux said:
RJ 17 said:
That said, I've got a quick question: does a set of all sets contain itself?
Yes, of course it does, that's trivial.
Actually, it's a trick question. A set of all sets doesn't exist and causes paradoxes of its own, one which is in fact Russell's Paradox.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_set

All sets together form a class, but not a set.
 

Maze1125

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nepheleim said:
Forgive my apparent ignorance but wouldn't common sense just tell us that you cannot have a number of things (let's say three apples) and divide them into zero groups? Isn't that all division is?
No, that's where the original concept of division derives from, but that's no reason to assume you cannot extend the concept to other areas.

Take your own example and use negative numbers:
"wouldn't common sense just tell us that you cannot have a number of things (let's say 6 apples) and divide them into -3 groups? Isn't that all division is?"

Yet we can divide by negative numbers all we want, by simply extending the rules of the concept beyond its origins.
 

Tanakh

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Maze1125 said:
nepheleim said:
Forgive my apparent ignorance but wouldn't common sense just tell us that you cannot have a number of things (let's say three apples) and divide them into zero groups? Isn't that all division is?
No, that's where the original concept of division derives from, but that's no reason to assume you cannot extend the concept to other areas.

Take your own example and use negative numbers:
"wouldn't common sense just tell us that you cannot have a number of things (let's say 6 apples) and divide them into -3 groups? Isn't that all division is?"

Yet we can divide by negative numbers all we want, by simply extending the rules of the concept beyond its origins.
Yep, that is why i dislike the title being "Dividing by zero, the truth". Even if in abstract algebra division is defined to be the inverse of multiplication, there is no way that historicaly or for non math students that makes sense; I would sugest the title being "Dividing by zero, an algebraic approach", because it's valid, and it's well made using basic abstract algebra tools, but when i see "math" and "truth"... dunno, bad aftertaste.
 

Vegosiux

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Maze1125 said:
Actually, it's a trick question. A set of all sets doesn't exist and causes paradoxes of its own, one which is in fact Russell's Paradox.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_set

All sets together form a class, but not a set.
Is that so...case of "lost in translation" on my side then, I think. Lemme read up on this.

Edit: Yes, I noticed where I missed a detail due to translating something wrong, you're right indeed.
 
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Three problems that I can see automatically:

0 is only real if you accept it as the zero element. It's not proven from base logic.
In the stated set of R, you have not shown whether the rules for addition are also available for the multiplication, which leads to Theorem 4.
Theorem 3 - unless I'm missing something - isn't up there?
Theorem 4: X/0 is undefined. As N*0=0 and N<=>X. That directly contradicts Theorem 2.
 

Tanakh

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The_root_of_all_evil said:
Three problems that I can see automatically:

0 is only real if you accept it as the zero element. It's not proven from base logic.
In the stated set of R, you have not shown whether the rules for addition are also available for the multiplication, which leads to Theorem 4.
Theorem 3 - unless I'm missing something - isn't up there?
Theorem 4: X/0 is undefined. As N*0=0 and N<=>X. That directly contradicts Theorem 2.
Ahh, dude, there aren't theorems outside 1 & 2 (which are more propositions imo, but whatever). Also he is working in abstract algebra, not symbolic logic or some whacky shit, the additive identity, 0 and zero (as an element) are used as synonims and of course they are there (field, duh).

About him missing some proofs of basic properties of the field? Yeah, and anyone that can read and understand that can also do those, the rest will only read the TL;DR, so i don't see the issue.