Do many Westerners really dislike Japanese games for such shallow reasons as "anime"?

Recommended Videos

LilithSlave

New member
Sep 1, 2011
2,462
0
0
I notice there was a thread recently I didn't get to take part in, where users, including the OP were basically making criticisms of Japanese games, for having a lot of manga or anime or whatever you want to call it, designs, and having "gay looking/seeming men". I kid you not. Seems pretty ridiculous, really.

Now, I'll admit to having my own bias in favor of anime designs. It may not have anything to do with gameplay, but I'll admit to really liking it. At least you can interact with it more than an anime figure, unless you're planning to make stop motion video. I've also made a lot of criticisms on a lot of the fixation on macho bodybuilder dudes video games.

But I certainly play a lot of non-anime games, and I think it should be considered pretty normal to play games if they have anime characters. If I only played games with anime characters, which I don't, you'd think me pretty closed minded and superficial, right? Then there's no reason to consider someone who refuses to play games based upon anime designs any less superficial, is there?

Plenty of anime games with guys that aren't macho hunks of muscle have sold plenty well. And to be honest, that seems like a fairly shallow thing to say about Japanese games. That the characters look too gay and anime. I can understand degrees of personal preference, but saying that they should chance, because the West, as a whole, will not tolerate effeminate male characters or manga characters in general, seems ridiculous. It's telling Japanese developers they should do what caters to the West, instead of making the games they want. And is saying that Westerners are shallow and gameplay isn't enough to look past manga designs.

I can understand all the arguments people make related to gameplay. Those are understandable, I respect those complaints. When talking about linearity and choice in jRPGs, there's a real argument to be hard there about things that matter. It may not be true, but it is substance. But this just seems superficial, incredibly superficial and unproductive.

And if the West does not want to look past androgyny or anime aesthetics, well then I think that's sad for us and I'm disappointed in us. And that Japanese developers should ignore the Western audiences that will refuse to play as such characters. They'd be better of pleasing the Japanese market that is happy to play as an anime character. And won't shallowly refuse a game because it has manga designs.

You can talk about linearity and overused storylines and things like that all you want. Japan certainly has room to grow and innovate as an industry where it is not. This, on the other hand, is meaningless, and should not change at all. If you refuse to play a game because of manga aesthetics, you're being as shallow about video games as it is possible to be, and Japanese developers do not need to cater to you. Again, how would you react to someone if they said they wouldn't play a game because it "wasn't anime enough"?

As long as it doesn't become another "World War II" thread like the other one, opening a thread like this should be okay, right? I hope I'm not going to get in trouble with the mods for this, I certainly mean no trouble.
 

Fieldy409_v1legacy

New member
Oct 9, 2008
2,686
0
0
I think the reason I dont like JRPG's is because the stories seem to mainly be about teenager characters. But that's a weak excuse as I don't know a huge amount of them. I liked them back when I was a teenager myself.

I guess I'm just the wrong target audience. I enjoy darker grittier universes and stories of mighty warriors putting their strength to the test. I love playing rpg games as barbarians and will play as an Orc whenever given a chance. I love reading Conan stories. Generally that awesome testosterone filled male power fantasies that I enjoy are far from what JRPGs, anime and manga offer.
 

TheCaptain

A Guy In A Hat
Feb 7, 2012
391
0
0
Well, I do play video games for my own enjoyment, and I'm not too keen on the manga art style. It's just not after my taste. And since playing video games isn't some intellectual exercise for me, just a nice little pastime, there's no reason for me to play games I'm not interested in for their art style.

It's like movies. I don't like all those 3D-Animated pixxar stuff that started with Toy Story and Ice Age and whatnot - I simply don't care for the style.
 

kingthrall

New member
May 31, 2011
811
0
0
LilithSlave said:
I notice there was a thread recently I didn't get to take part in, where users, including the OP were basically making criticisms of Japanese games, for having a lot of manga or anime or whatever you want to call it, designs, and having "gay looking/seeming men". I kid you not. Seems pretty ridiculous, really.

Now, I'll admit to having my own bias in favor of anime designs. It may not have anything to do with gameplay, but I'll admit to really liking it. At least you can interact with it more than an anime figure, unless you're planning to make stop motion video. I've also made a lot of criticisms on a lot of the fixation on macho bodybuilder dudes video games.

But I certainly play a lot of non-anime games, and I think it should be considered pretty normal to play games if they have anime characters. If I only played games with anime characters, which I don't, you'd think me pretty closed minded and superficial, right? Then there's no reason to consider someone who refuses to play games based upon anime designs any less superficial, is there?

Plenty of anime games with guys that aren't macho hunks of muscle have sold plenty well. And to be honest, that seems like a fairly shallow thing to say about Japanese games. That the characters look to gay and anime. I can understand degrees of personal preference, but saying that they should chance, because the West, as a whole, will not tolerate effeminate male characters or manga characters in general, seems ridiculous. It's telling Japanese developers they should do what caters to the West, instead of making the games they want. And is saying that Westerners are shallow and gameplay isn't enough to look past manga designs.

I can understand all the arguments people make related to gameplay. Those are understandable, I respect those complaints. When talking about linearity and choice in jRPGs, there's a real argument to be hard there about things that matter. It may not be true, but it is substance. But this just seems superficial, incredibly superficial and unproductive.

And if the West does not want to look past androgyny or anime aesthetics, well then I think that's sad for us and I'm disappointed in us. And that Japanese developers should ignore the Western audiences that will refuse to play as such characters. They'd be better of pleasing the Japanese market that is happy to play as an anime character. And won't shallowly refuse a game because it has manga designs.

You can talk about linearity and overused storylines and things like that all you want. Japan certainly has room to grow and innovate as an industry where it is not. This, on the other hand, is meaningless, and should not change at all. If you refuse to play a game because of manga aesthetics, you're being as shallow about video games as it is possible to be, and Japanese developers do not need to cater to you. Again, how would you react to someone if they said they wouldn't play a game because it "wasn't anime enough"?

As long as it doesn't become another "World War II" thread like the other one, opening a thread like this should be okay, right? I hope I'm not going to get in trouble with the mods for this, I certainly mean no trouble.
To me Japanese games are lifeless with no energy or spark. they are just way too organised in dialog with monotone voices and homogenized game play. There is also the fact there is no variation or variety in Japanese design looks. Nobody but Japan wears the clothing that they put on their characters so it also makes the game look twice as crazy when you see for example that new game ninja garden 3 with ninja's in Britain.
 

Indecipherable

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2010
590
0
21
LilithSlave said:
I notice there was a thread recently I didn't get to take part in, where users, including the OP were basically making criticisms of Japanese games, for having a lot of manga or anime or whatever you want to call it, designs, and having "gay looking/seeming men". I kid you not. Seems pretty ridiculous, really.

Now, I'll admit to having my own bias in favor of anime designs. It may not have anything to do with gameplay, but I'll admit to really liking it. At least you can interact with it more than an anime figure, unless you're planning to make stop motion video. I've also made a lot of criticisms on a lot of the fixation on macho bodybuilder dudes video games.

But I certainly play a lot of non-anime games, and I think it should be considered pretty normal to play games if they have anime characters. If I only played games with anime characters, which I don't, you'd think me pretty closed minded and superficial, right? Then there's no reason to consider someone who refuses to play games based upon anime designs any less superficial, is there?

Plenty of anime games with guys that aren't macho hunks of muscle have sold plenty well. And to be honest, that seems like a fairly shallow thing to say about Japanese games. That the characters look to gay and anime. I can understand degrees of personal preference, but saying that they should chance, because the West, as a whole, will not tolerate effeminate male characters or manga characters in general, seems ridiculous. It's telling Japanese developers they should do what caters to the West, instead of making the games they want. And is saying that Westerners are shallow and gameplay isn't enough to look past manga designs.

I can understand all the arguments people make related to gameplay. Those are understandable, I respect those complaints. When talking about linearity and choice in jRPGs, there's a real argument to be hard there about things that matter. It may not be true, but it is substance. But this just seems superficial, incredibly superficial and unproductive.

And if the West does not want to look past androgyny or anime aesthetics, well then I think that's sad for us and I'm disappointed in us. And that Japanese developers should ignore the Western audiences that will refuse to play as such characters. They'd be better of pleasing the Japanese market that is happy to play as an anime character. And won't shallowly refuse a game because it has manga designs.

You can talk about linearity and overused storylines and things like that all you want. Japan certainly has room to grow and innovate as an industry where it is not. This, on the other hand, is meaningless, and should not change at all. If you refuse to play a game because of manga aesthetics, you're being as shallow about video games as it is possible to be, and Japanese developers do not need to cater to you. Again, how would you react to someone if they said they wouldn't play a game because it "wasn't anime enough"?

As long as it doesn't become another "World War II" thread like the other one, opening a thread like this should be okay, right? I hope I'm not going to get in trouble with the mods for this, I certainly mean no trouble.
So to sum this up if we don't like the same art style as you...

And if the West does not want to look past androgyny or anime aesthetics, well then I think that's sad for us and I'm disappointed in us.

and

And won't shallowly refuse a game because it has manga designs.

I think you need to think carefully before accusing people of being shallow because they don't like what you like. It makes you look exactly what you declare others like, and you sound very immature.

I've also found a pretty picture for you, just feel free to swap the order of words around to see the meaning:

 
Dec 14, 2009
15,526
0
0
Weeaboos will cause the Great Bear Rebellions.

It's understandable why people wouldn't like Japanese aesthetic.
 

LilithSlave

New member
Sep 1, 2011
2,462
0
0
Indecipherable said:
So to sum this up if we don't like the same art style as you...
People can like whatever the heck they like.

I'm not as fond of the dark and gritty art style, but it hasn't prevented me from playing a long list of video games that look like that.

If someone said they didn't want to play a game because it was wasn't very Japanese aesthetically and cultural, most people would call them shallow, bigoted, and with a retarded prejudice against non-Japanese games. Who cares about stupid crap completely unrelated to gameplay. But that's exactly the sort of thing I'm starting to hear argued towards Japanese developers over and over.

That "Westerners don't want to play that anime crap, so stop making it." If Westerners don't want to play that, then I don't think that Japan should worry about the Western audience anymore.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
13,769
5
43
Are we not allowed to have preferences in visual aesthetics?

I think most anime looks ugly as hell. (Yes, I know there's a bunch of different styles.) Therefore I tend to avoid games that look like anime because I don't like games with ugly visual design.

Not sure what you mean about the "gay looking men" thing. I'm more put off by the characters (men and women both) all looking like swollen-eyed children in clown outfits.
 

Indecipherable

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2010
590
0
21
LilithSlave said:
Indecipherable said:
So to sum this up if we don't like the same art style as you...
People can like whatever the heck they like.

I'm not as fond of the dark and gritty art style, but it hasn't prevented me from playing a long list of video games that look like that.

If someone said they didn't want to play a game because it was wasn't very Japanese aesthetically and cultural, most people would call them shallow, bigoted, and with a retarded prejudice against non-Japanese games. Who cares about stupid crap completely unrelated to gameplay. But that's exactly the sort of thing I'm starting to hear argued towards Japanese developers over and over.

That "Westerners don't want to play that anime crap, so stop making it." If Westerners don't want to play that, then I don't think that Japan should worry about the Western audience anymore.
So then we should play stuff we don't like to satisfy you not calling us shallow?

Seriously this is a fucking train wreck of a topic and you should get out now before you look even worse. Every paragraph of your original post is insulting and expect people to call you out on it like they already are - in droves.

Stupid thread and ironic that you are accusing others of being close minded for not doing stuff they don't like.
 

LilithSlave

New member
Sep 1, 2011
2,462
0
0
Zhukov said:
Are we not allowed to have preferences in visual aesthetics?
To the point of refusing them outright? Does gameplay not matter?
Zhukov said:
Not sure what you mean about the "gay looking men"
This topic is in response to a topic that got locked recently.

Seriously, I have my own tastes and I like that that "cute" or "kawaii" or "moe" stuff or anime/manga stuff as well as androgyny. But it hasn't stopped me from playing plenty of games that deviate from that, like Black(the FPS for the PS2), Portal 1, 2, The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion, Super Metroid, Metal Slug, and thousands of other things that have nothing to do with that.
 

ChupathingyX

New member
Jun 8, 2010
3,716
0
0
I have to admit, sometimes I do laugh when I see someone say something along the lines of "I don't like it 'cause it's anime".

But everyone has their preferences; I'm just glad I'm a very accepting person when it comes to aesthetic design. Might have something to do with the fact that I grew up watching Invader Zim where all the humans looked like mutants who had been rolling around in the mud and still thoroughly enjoyed the show.

Meh, everyone has their tastes.
 

Fieldy409_v1legacy

New member
Oct 9, 2008
2,686
0
0
LilithSlave said:
Indecipherable said:
So to sum this up if we don't like the same art style as you...
People can like whatever the heck they like.

I'm not as fond of the dark and gritty art style, but it hasn't prevented me from playing a long list of video games that look like that.

If someone said they didn't want to play a game because it was wasn't very Japanese aesthetically and cultural, most people would call them shallow, bigoted, and with a retarded prejudice against non-Japanese games. Who cares about stupid crap completely unrelated to gameplay. But that's exactly the sort of thing I'm starting to hear argued towards Japanese developers over and over.

That "Westerners don't want to play that anime crap, so stop making it." If Westerners don't want to play that, then I don't think that Japan should worry about the Western audience anymore.
Do you think that Japanese developers are really that worried what the west thinks? It's never stopped Japan in the past from doing their thing.
 

RedEyesBlackGamer

The Killjoy Detective returns!
Jan 23, 2011
4,701
0
0
I'm the guy who has never seen an aesthetic that I didn't at least mind putting up with. I'll play Magic then play a game of Yu-Gi-Oh!. Because of this, I don't really get the aesthetic argument because I just haven't experienced it.
 

TheCaptain

A Guy In A Hat
Feb 7, 2012
391
0
0
LilithSlave said:
To the point of refusing them outright? Does gameplay not matter?
Gameplay does matter, but at least to me, the overall aesthetics matter more. If there's a game that I find aesthetically compelling, I can forgive somewhat shoddy gameplay. A game that doesn't appeal to me at all can have the best gameplay in the world and I still wouldn't find it enjoyable.

And as I said, it's only games. I'm put off by the manga/anime art style to an extent that makes me not want to play these games, so why would I even want to want to play the games? I got Skyrim to complete, six and a half character storylines in SWTOR to play through, Diablo and Prototype 2 coming up this year, all games that I already want to play...

Doesn't make me shallow (I hope). Just a matter of taste.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
13,769
5
43
LilithSlave said:
Zhukov said:
Are we not allowed to have preferences in visual aesthetics?
To the point of refusing them outright? Does gameplay not matter?
Yes, but it's only a part of the equation and it's not like anime games have some kind of monopoly on good gameplay.

If there are two game I can spend my money on, both with good gameplay but one with an ugly visual style then, well... no prizes for guessing which one I end up buying.

I don't see why you'd get upset by this. I wouldn't be annoyed if someone said they hadn't played a Gears of War game because they weren't the brown-and-beefcake aesthetics. I certainly wouldn't start calling them shallow for it.
 

LilithSlave

New member
Sep 1, 2011
2,462
0
0
Zhukov said:
I certainly would start calling them shallow for it.
I take it you don't have a much negative view of being shallow, given that you're doing the exact same thing for anime.

I'm a little bit confused by your wording in general, though.
Fieldy409 said:
Do you think that Japanese developers are really that worried what the west thinks? It's never stopped Japan in the past from doing their thing.
With the direction the industry is going, I hope I don't have to worry about it too much.

There's definitely a problematic thing going on right now. The Japanese game industry seems to be starting to form a sort of inferiority complex. Games I like may be on the decline. And I certainly don't want that to happen.
 

TheCaptain

A Guy In A Hat
Feb 7, 2012
391
0
0
LilithSlave said:
Zhukov said:
I certainly would start calling them shallow for it.
I take it you don't have a much negative view of being shallow, given that you're doing the exact same thing for anime.
I think he meant to say "wouldn't".

Anyway, imagine there's something about a game that you wouldn't want to deal with through the whole experience. You seem to find gameplay extremely important, so imagine there's a JRPG with a really great m/a art style but that one gameplay feature that's a dealbreaker for you. Why bother playing it then?

Of course, if there's really nothing that makes a game not worth playing, kudos. You'll have a lot more options than most other people, which is nice.

For me, my personal aesthetic preferences dictate what games I buy and play. And as I said before, it's not that I'm running out of titles I actually want to play.
 

Fieldy409_v1legacy

New member
Oct 9, 2008
2,686
0
0
LilithSlave said:
Zhukov said:
I certainly would start calling them shallow for it.
I take it you don't have a much negative view of being shallow, given that you're doing the exact same thing for anime.

I'm a little bit confused by your wording in general, though.
Fieldy409 said:
Do you think that Japanese developers are really that worried what the west thinks? It's never stopped Japan in the past from doing their thing.
With the direction the industry is going, I hope I don't have to worry about it too much.

There's definitely a problematic thing going on right now. The Japanese game industry seems to be starting to form a sort of inferiority complex. Games I like may be on the decline. And I certainly don't want that to happen.
I thought this might be the reason you were posting this stuff. I know it's annoying when something you like loses popularity and gets harder to find. But times change and so does what's popular and there's not much you can do about it. Just be glad we live in the age of the Internet where every niche interest can be filled.
 

Smooth Operator

New member
Oct 5, 2010
8,162
0
0
Well one part are people who like riding the ignorance train because it makes their life so much easier.
And the other are people who express themselves poorly/lazily, not to spur on the rising flames lets take "modern brown shooter" as an example, when people say that they mean the whole bucket of conventions that was established with it so you can't just take the statement word for word.

I probably said it a few times myself but it's really not just about the spiky hair and large breasted jailbait.