Do you think we romanticize the wrong things?

[Travdelosmuertos]

South Park has once again made another poignant observation about the western world. If you don't know what I'm talking about, I'm referring to the pirate episode that aired this week. Go to southparkstudios.com if you want to see it. Essentially, Cartman blithely ignores the suffering around him (again) as he pirates the high seas.

So, I got to thinking - with pop culture like The Sopranos and Pirates of the Caribbean, are we romanticizing things that we shouldn't be? Where do you think that the line between entertainment and ignorance begins?

 

[Pimppeter2]

yes, especially gang-life

 

[teisjm]

What saddens me isn't that movies and series romantize stuff like that, it's that people doens't just accept it for what it is, a movie, FICTION!

If people things the mafia is awesome cuz of sopranos they shoudl really join a gang, get shot and win the darwin award

 

[Hazy]

You need to take what South Park says with a grain of salt, especially when it's coming from Cartman. Cartman was designed with the idea of creating a child who is essentially symbolic for "Self embodiement" I.e. An Ego-controlled spoiled brat. Matt Stone and Trey Parker (Creators) realize that people will recieve these incidents with disgust, which is why Eric is such an amazing character. But then you have characters like Butters, Stan, and Kyle who, while Naive and young, usually are the ones who see the error of their ways, and correct past mistakes. And essentially "Follow through" (If you will) with the satire that made the series so great.

 

[Travdelosmuertos]

You need to take what South Park says with a grain of salt, especially when it's coming from Cartman. Cartman was designed with the idea of creating a child who is essentially symbolic for "Self embodiement" I.e. An Ego-controlled spoiled brat.

No, I do. South Park is infamous for using characters like Randy and Cartman to make a point. Their point, emphasized by the speech by the pirate at the end, is that Americans are essentially stupid for romanticizing things like piracy. It's not adventure and treasure, it's murder, theft and rape.

 

[Hazy]

You need to take what South Park says with a grain of salt, especially when it's coming from Cartman. Cartman was designed with the idea of creating a child who is essentially symbolic for "Self embodiement" I.e. An Ego-controlled spoiled brat.

No, I do. South Park is infamous for using characters like Randy and Cartman to make a point. Their point, emphasized by the speech by the pirate at the end, is that Americans are essentially stupid for romanticizing things like piracy. It's not adventure and treasure, it's murder, theft and rape.

Coulden't have said it better myself.

 

[Owned by 3 year olds]

yes, especially gang-life

This and:

You need to take what South Park says with a grain of salt, especially when it's coming from Cartman. Cartman was designed with the idea of creating a child who is essentially symbolic for "Self embodiement" I.e. An Ego-controlled spoiled brat.

No, I do. South Park is infamous for using characters like Randy and Cartman to make a point. Their point, emphasized by the speech by the pirate at the end, is that Americans are essentially stupid for romanticizing things like piracy. It's not adventure and treasure, it's murder, theft and rape.

This.

 

[Mozared]

I'm not sure where yet, but Sin City fits in this thread. What I like about that movie is that they in a way do exactly what you say - romanticize violence and the like. But the whole point of the movie is that you take for granted that the entire world of the persona is corrupt and downright bad, which makes you condone the main characters' violence for a noble goal which isn't really a romanticization.

 

[Travdelosmuertos]

Alright, well it seems people are on the same page as me on this. So, what other things do you think that our culture (and by this I mean Americans, Brits and Aussies alike) romanticize that is just stupid?

 

[Travdelosmuertos]

I'm not sure where yet, but Sin City fits in this thread. What I like about that movie is that they in a way do exactly what you say - romanticize violence and the like. But the whole point of the movie is that you take for granted that the entire world of the persona is corrupt and downright bad, which makes you condone the main characters' violence for a noble goal which isn't really a romanticization.

I think there's an inherent difference between justifying violence and romanticizing it. I'm strapped for providing any examples at the moment but I'll get post when I find one.

 

[Axeli]

I'm not sure where yet, but Sin City fits in this thread. What I like about that movie is that they in a way do exactly what you say - romanticize violence and the like. But the whole point of the movie is that you take for granted that the entire world of the persona is corrupt and downright bad, which makes you condone the main characters' violence for a noble goal which isn't really a romanticization.

I think there's an inherent difference between justifying violence and romanticizing it. I'm strapped for providing any examples at the moment but I'll get post when I find one.

Justifying = Why it's the right thing to do.
Romaticizing = It might be wrong but it's awesome.

 

[Nomad]

What saddens me isn't that movies and series romantize stuff like that, it's that people doens't just accept it for what it is, a movie, FICTION!

He said what I was thinking. Not everything has a deeper meaning to it. And I seriously doubt anyone really thinks organized crime and high seas piracy are rad things in real life. Just like I very much doubt that many of you would join the army in real life, even though you play war games.

Sometimes fiction is just fiction, and sometimes entertainment is just entertainment. Fiction does not automatically transfer imaginary ideals and outlooks into reality.

 

[BubbleGumSnareDrum]

In addition I want to address the way things are romanticized. The idea of being pirate is romanticized because of the impression of being able to live however you want and do whatever you want. That life is romanticized because of the image of being one's own master.

Why is the notion that one is the only person who has a say in one's life something to be romanticized? Why aren't things already like that already?

 

[internutt]

Its just what happens I guess. Woman falls in love with the wrong man sort of deal.

Its living a fantasy more than anything else. Hopefully people don't believe Pirates of the Caribbean is how it really happened in Spain.

 

[Amethyst Wind]

Alright, well it seems people are on the same page as me on this. So, what other things do you think that our culture (and by this I mean Americans, Brits and Aussies alike) romanticize that is just stupid?

Pretty much any form of self-destruction. Especially street-racing. You pay thousands and thousands just to wrap yourself around a tree and the car around you.

 

[high_castle]

Interesting. I had a similar conversation recently with a friend. We went to see State of Play together and there was a preview for the upcoming Michael Man biopic on John Dillinger. I immediately said I wanted to see it, but she said she felt it glamorized a violent bank robber and murderer.

I understand that way of thinking, but at the same point, look at classic literature and cinema. We have always had a fascination with violence and characters whose actions are reprehensible. I think we find them fascinating because they represent our baser instincts. But most people don't act on their instincts, they suppress them. A character who lives by his own rules can be an attractive study, an escapist fantasy. And there's also a lot of inherent drama in the whole setup. Also, many of the real classics are played for tragedy (and knowing Michael Mann, his new flick will be also). Hamlet featured a classic revenge story. Look how that ended for everyone. By the end of Godfather Part II, Michael had lost his entire family, literally and emotionally. Even the third Pirates of the Caribbean movie had Will sacrificing his life with Elizabeth. These are not happy endings. If we were truly glamorizing crime, all of our stories would show the criminals getting away. But instead, as much as we might admire these people who act on all their instincts, we still have some desire for justice to be served.

So I don't think we romanticize the wrong things. I think we find drama in crime and violence, but this isn't necessarily a bad thing. Not as long as it's confined to fiction.

 

[Cirus Arvennicus]

I saw the thread and thought you mean Romantic as in, like, Roman Empire kinda thing.

On that train of thought, I think we should just go Greek.

 

[CIA]

Well, not really. Romanticism implies that the thing being romanticized wasn't romantic in the first place. It is just doing what its definition lays out.

 

[Eldritch Warlord]

These sorts of things have been romanticized for a long time. Late Medieval and Renaissance England had a romantic idea of highwaymen.

 

[ElTigreSantiago]

Serving in the military is definetly romanticized in movies and videogames.