Does devs ignoring the PC for the last few years, look shortsighted in light of next gen hardware?

[ph0b0s123]

Could not fit in the whole question I wanted to ask, in the title box. So the full question for this thread is as follows:

Since developers will have to code for the PC for a majority of next gen hardware, does their decision to ignore PC / treat it as a second class platform for the past few years, look shortsighted?

First some background to the question:

1 How can you say the PS4, etc are PC's?!

The PS4 hardware is just about confirmed. It's a PC. The Xbox Next is also going to be a PC, unless Microsoft throw a curve ball in what is expected for their hardware spec.

They are PC's as they have x86 CPU's and will run X86 code. That is the definition of a 100% IBM PC compatible device, i.e a PC.

PC does not equal runs X OS, I.E windows.

PC does not equal is upgradable, etc. That would be a desktop PC, there are lot of PC's that are not upgradeable but are still PC's

PC equals has an x86 CPU and runs x86 code.


2 How can you say the PC has been ignored / treated a as a second class platform?!

So the second part of the question. Dev's have hardly put any resources into the PC for the last few years. Most games have been ports of consoles focused games. This can be seen by the majority of PC games being DirectX 9 as that is what current gen consoles use.

Back to the question again:

I have said in threads on this site repeatedly, that developers not trying to push / develop games that may only work with PC's extra power, would give themselves a problem when the next generation came about. As the extra power of the PC allows you try things that can then be done on the increased power of the next gen.

This prediction seems pretty apt now that any work they did would have been so easy to move to next gen hardware now, as they will share the same architecture as the PC.

One thing is for certain dev's won't be able to avoid code for the PC going forwards. Unless they want to be Wii U exclusive....

What do others think, short sighted or not?

EDIT: Sorry for the duplicate threads, but the system kept telling there was an issue and the post had not been successful. The other threads have been removed...

 

[DoPo]

Is it shortsighted? Well...no, not at all. The fact that now consoles are PCs has no actual meaning. It doesn't really matter what platform a code is developed for, as long as you're guaranteed the specs. So if you have some custom hardware or off the shelf system, the devs would be coding against that. And they have the dev tools to help them there, so there is even less of an issue. At most, there would be a brief learning curve but I doubt it'd be much, as I'm sure Sony and Microsoft would try to smooth things out with the dev kits. The biggest change would be for people who decided to drop down to lower level code and muck around with it there. And they wouldn't have a problem either, since they can obviously handle it.

In summary, change in hardware is pretty much irrelevant.

1 How can you say the PS4, etc are PC's?!

The PS4 hardware is just about confirmed. It's a PC. The Xbox Next is also going to be a PC, unless Microsoft throw a curve ball in what is expected for their hardware spec.

They are PC's as they have x86 CPU's and will run X86 code. That is the definition of a 100% IBM PC compatible device, i.e a PC.

PC does not equal runs X OS, I.E windows.

PC does not equal is upgradable, etc. That would be a desktop PC, there are lot of PC's that are not upgradeable but are still PC's

PC equals has an x86 CPU and runs x86 code.

As an aside - while what you're saying is true, a PC stands for personal computer but a general purpose one. A console has a dedicated scope. Even if it's build for normal off the shelf components, it's still not a PC as long as its restricted.

 

[lechat]

umm what exactly makes them PCs this generation but not the last?

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

Last few years were good for PC gamers. It's the first couple of years when Xbox 360 and PS3 were released that PC was largely ignored.

 

[Christopher Fisher]

Last few years were good for PC gamers. It's the first couple of years when Xbox 360 and PS3 were released that PC was largely ignored.

Yeah, I don't really get what this guy is talking about. Devs have been ignoring the PC for the last few years? Really? Because most AAA games that I played have had pretty damn good ports, and the PC has become the main platform for indie games (both the AA type as well as the 2D platformer kind). In fact, many studios have been developing engines based on current PC hardware (and next gen console hardware) lately like Frostbite 2. So I don't really agree with the premise.

As for the whole DX11 aspect...many devs have been using DX11 features. Arkham City, BF3, Natural Selection 2, Deus EX hr, Hitman, Sleeping Dogs, Metro 2033, Far Cry 3, etc etc.

I'd like it if they devoted some time to actually learning how to implement DX11 (Arkham City devs, I am looking at you!), but ignorance is to be expected when you're just learning something.

 

[ph0b0s123]

umm what exactly makes them PCs this generation but not the last?

Because in previous generations they did not have PC CPU's only GPU's taken from the PC market. So dev's did not need to code for x86 architecture. The only exception to this was the original xbox, but that was in the minority (1 out of 3 devices) for that generation and for consoles in general.

The coming generation a majority (2 out of 3 devices) will running x86 / PC architecture.

-snip-

As an aside - while what you're saying is true, a PC stands for personal computer but a general purpose one. A console has a dedicated scope. Even if it's build for normal off the shelf components, it's still not a PC as long as its restricted.

Restriction has nothing to do with whether it is a PC or not. An IBM PC is defined as x86 architecture / code. PC's can be completely restricted, but are still PC's. The embedded PC's now appearing in cars running windows embedded etc. Or nettop's running linux that are not upgrade, they are still PC's if they have an x86 cpu.

Last few years were good for PC gamers. It's the first couple of years when Xbox 360 and PS3 were released that PC was largely ignored.

Yeah, I don't really get what this guy is talking about. Devs have been ignoring the PC for the last few years? Really? Because most AAA games that I played have had pretty damn good ports, and the PC has become the main platform for indie games (both the AA type as well as the 2D platformer kind). In fact, many studios have been developing engines based on current PC hardware (and next gen console hardware) lately like Frostbite 2. So I don't really agree with the premise.

As for the whole DX11 aspect...many devs have been using DX11 features. Arkham City, BF3, Natural Selection 2, Deus EX hr, Hitman, Sleeping Dogs, Metro 2033, Far Cry 3, etc etc.

I'd like it if they devoted some time to actually learning how to implement DX11 (Arkham City devs, I am looking at you!), but ignorance is to be expected when you're just learning something.

What am I talking about. We you said it yourself. Ports is what we get. and you also agreed with my point that only a minority of games have been been coded to take advantage of PC specific features, like DX11.

In order to get a head start on the next gen they should have had games that may not have worked on current consoles. The could have been the launch titles for the next gen. Now there will be a delay of games that use the hardware well.

 

[Kingjackl]

Since when have devs been ignoring the PC? Just check your Steam store page every now and again, the platform is chock a block with new stuff coming out every week. The prominence of console ports is simply a result of consoles being the primary market focus and the general template for most games. It's not like they're mostly bad ports, either.

 

[Lilani]

Since developers will have to code for the PC for a majority of next gen hardware, does their decision to ignore PC / treat it as a second class platform for the past few years, look shortsighted?

Pray-tell which developers are ignoring PCs/treating them like second-class citizens? I'm pretty sure more AAA games and franchises than ever before got PC and console versions of their games this generation. Mass Effect, Deus Ex, Dead Space, Skyrim, Assassin's Creed, Resident Evil...and those are just the first ones off the top of my head. With the prominence of online play and digital distribution it's become easier than ever before for games on multiple platforms to be successful. And clearly there are plenty of developers taking advantage of this. There are still a few console exclusive franchises of course, but until consoles cease to exist that's sort of to be expected.

 

[Lilani]

What am I talking about. We you said it yourself. Ports is what we get. and you also agreed with my point that only a minority of games have been been coded to take advantage of PC specific features, like DX11.

In order to get a head start on the next gen they should have had games that may not have worked on current consoles. The could have been the launch titles for the next gen. Now there will be a delay of games that use the hardware well.

Wait, what? That's why you think PCs are getting treated like second-class citizens? You are the first person I have ever encountered who is bothered by this, and a good portion of my friends are electrical engineering and computer science majors. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of PC gamers are perfectly fine with ports, and are more excited that they exist than whether or not they use Direct-X. Are you sure this is actually a problem on the minds of most PC gamers, or is it something that mostly bothers you?

 

[CannibalCorpses]

You do realise of course that console gamers get shitty PC ports aswell right? It's not 1-way traffic...we all get them.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of PC gamers are perfectly fine with ports, and are more excited that they exist than whether or not they use Direct-X.

Nope, a lot of PC gamers get pretty pissed off when presented with a direct console port with no work put into offering standard PC features.

If most 'ports' were like Deus Ex: Human Revolutions (coded by a specialist studio), PC gamers would be rapt... unfortunately most are closer to the PC versions of Saints Row 2 and GTA IV (original release, not 6 months of patching later) - cack handed, terribly optimised, buggy as fuck and with shit-tastic controls that seem to be set to punish anyone who has the audacity to try and play using M+KB.

Then there's also the issue of the funny little habit of publishers waiting 6-18 months to release a PC port of a game hardly anyone wanted... and then blame poor sales on PIRATES!!!(yarr). Meanwhile poor Octofish cries himself to sleep at night because there still isn't a PC version of Red Dead Redemption.

 

[Griffolion]

Ignoring what I'll call machines that run Windows (the conventional definition of PC's) is short sighted in any manner. It's a thriving, vibrant part of the games market, and a leader in interesting new IP where the restrictive console walled gardens may stifle it.

Yes, you have piracy issues, but that's what the likes of Steam are for.

Also, now that the PS4 is running off x86, we will hopefully start seeing more timely (or existent at all) versions of games on PC due to them going off the same assembly language.

 

[Aaron Sylvester]

The only thing that royally pisses me off about bad PC ports is the lack of FoV (field of view) adjustment. Fucking developers...their engine can do it, but they don't implement any option/command into their games. It's retarded. Don't they understand that most PC gamers don't play on their TV's, we sit 2 feet away from our monitors and therefore need more peripheral vision (wider camera angles) compared to console gamers -_-
It's like playing while peering through the neck-hole of your shirt.

Spoiler: Explains FoV

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Also, now that the PS4 is running off x86, we will hopefully start seeing more timely (or existent at all) versions of games on PC due to them going off the same assembly language.

And in return, if Sony aren't knobs about it, PS4 games could start being able to utilise the output of numerous PC modding communities.

 

[Silvianoshei]

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of PC gamers are perfectly fine with ports, and are more excited that they exist than whether or not they use Direct-X. Are you sure this is actually a problem on the minds of most PC gamers, or is it something that mostly bothers you?

No. No, we are not. Most of your friends are not enthusiasts, clearly.

The vast majority of PC gamers...DEDICATED PC gamers who play PC titles exclusively except for console-only releases that pique their interest, are never satisfied with ports from 720p DX9 software. How can we be? After the original "trial by fire" that was Crysis, we aren't satisfied with the way that console gaming has dragged the PC down as a platform. I mean, Crysis looks better than every single PC port that has been released since.

Where has it dragged us down? FOV locking issues. Lack of high-res textures without additional mods. AMAZINGLY Poor UI integration (Skyrim?). Poor mouse and keyboard control scheme adaptation.

So, in short, the OP has a point. The move to x86 means that simultaneous, PROPER PC releases, with proper graphical options and easy modification will become easier for developers to do making them more common. However, the OP's point is that the development of streamlined Coding processes for DX11 experiences on PC x86 architecture is way behind where it should be because of the focus on full exploitation of limited console power.

If this sounds elitist, I don't care. I love my PS3 but I hate the fact that I've had to live with 720p upscales when I want play something on PC with a gamepad.

 

[synobal]

I feel sorry for the Wii U, developers can code for 3 platforms, with very little effort (PC, PS4, and Xbox) but they will have to do a lot more work to port something to the Wii U. This is going to mean the Wii U is likely going to have a lot of exclusives but very few games compared to the other platforms.

 

[Dendio]

Industry would probably rather people buy a console AND a pc, rather than just do everything on the pc.
That said I played most games I wanted to play and I dont have a console aside from wii ( now THAT was ignored).

 

[Dendio]

I should also add that previous gen consoles have allowed me to milk my dual core for years now. Next gen probably means I finally need a new gaming rig hehe

 

[Zipa]

I feel sorry for the Wii U, developers can code for 3 platforms, with very little effort (PC, PS4, and Xbox) but they will have to do a lot more work to port something to the Wii U. This is going to mean the Wii U is likely going to have a lot of exclusives but very few games compared to the other platforms.

Its pretty much the position that the PS3 was in, the Xbox 360 and windows are similar enough that its not a real effort to release a port in which ever direction but with the PS3 everything had to be recoded pretty much. Hence why you get situations like what happened with skyrim and its DLC.

 

[BeerTent]

umm what exactly makes them PCs this generation but not the last?

Because in previous generations they did not have PC CPU's only GPU's taken from the PC market. So dev's did not need to code for x86 architecture. The only exception to this was the original xbox, but that was in the minority (1 out of 3 devices) for that generation and for consoles in general.

The coming generation a majority (2 out of 3 devices) will running x86 / PC architecture.

Yeah... They did... Just because you can't pop it out and stick it in another machine, a processor is prettymuch the core definition of any computer in my books. No Processor, no PC. The Xbox, 360, and PS3 all had processors, all had Ram, GPU's, HDD's... Also, are you sure you meant to type in x86? I find that rather impossible to believe in, as x86 is dying off with Windows 8. Hell, it was essentially dead with Windows 7. I'd be surprised if the WiiU was running a 32 bit processor in there.